The winner of The New Hamitic Continent's Naming Contest

[zumaale]

I read or heard somewhere Benadir is a condensed word from "Bayt al Dir", place/house of Dir.

That would be ironic since there are apparently more Benadiri E1b1b carriers than what zumaale suggests for the Dir. According to him, Dir are instead mainly haplogroup T bearers.

You are conflating two issues, the original name of the region and actual populace of the region today.

Bilis

If Dir are not mainly E1b1b that does not mean they are not 'Somali' because it is an undisputed fact that we are the prototype Somalis and the most ancient stock. If Dir turn out to be mainly haplogroup T then one can argue that Somalis with E1b1b1 are nothing more than breakaway proto-Oromos that became part of the Dir Samaale identity.

[Jabuutawi]

Brother Zumaale,

Brother Billis has no ill intent. I, for one, am proud that we have a unique situation. We are blessed to be called Somalis, irrespective of our origins. Brothers, we can't go wrong with our culture, faith and religion. How can I say no to a Darood brother due to DNA variation? How could I possibly say no to a Hawiye or Darood girl because she belongs to a different branch of the human phylogenetic tree?

Salaam and I am out.

[Itrah]

If Dir are not mainly E1b1b that does not mean they are not 'Somali' because it is an undisputed fact that we are the prototype Somalis and the most ancient stock. If Dir turn out to be mainly haplogroup T then one can argue that Somalis with E1b1b1 are nothing more than breakaway proto-Oromos that became part of the Dir Samaale identity.

The most logical explanation is that E-V32 and T1a entered the Somali peninsula roughly around the same. There is absolutely no evidence on the Dir's autosomal or maternal DNA that they represent a relic ancient population similar to Copts vs other Egyptians or the Basque vs other Spaniards for instance.

Moreover, Oromos are more like proto-Somalis than the other way around. They possess clear signals of Omotic ancestry completely absent in Eastern Somalis. Oromos are most certainly not the ancestors of Somalis, but Somalis could be their ancestors.

[Bilis]

Where the fuck did I state that haologroup T is only restricted to Dirs. I never commented on Hawiye or other Samaale test results as it appears most individuals who do the test are Darood or Dir. Furthermore, I have not come across an academic study that was conducted in a mainly Hawiye or Samaale city. I have repeatedly stated that the conclusions reached from the current information available is limited until all Somali subclans are tested. Until then all we can do is rely on the few research papers out there and individual test results.

Ok sxb, it's just that a couple of things you said threw me off. For instance, when you expressed doubt that Trombetta's Somalis in Ethiopia (who appear to have high frequencies of haplogroup T) were mainly Ogaden, and suggested instead that they too were likely Dir:

Even the 40 plus people that were tested in Jijiga by Plaster et al were overwhelmingly E1b1b1. Jijiga is a mainly Darood city with a Dir minority. Whereas, 80 percent or so of the 18 Somalis tested in Dire Dawa were haplogroup T

I apologize if I misunderstood you, though. That certainly was not my intent.

All I have argued is that Dirs appear to be mainly haplogroup T as exemplified by individual test results and also from the academic papers on Somalis tested in Dire Dawa and possibly Djibouti. I have also argued that Darood are overwhelmingly E1b1b1 according to current result trends. Whether Arabs Somais are haplogroup T or E1b1b is irrelevant to what I have been pushing in this discussion as I have never stated that we have a monopoly on haplogroup T in the Horn. Furthermore, my statements have been limited to Dir and Darood.

Whatever agenda you have son is none of my concern. Just refrain from making sweeping statements such as that bottleneck theory to explain why Dirs in Northwest Somalia appear to be predominately haplogroup T and ignoring the idea that a common paternal lineage might be the reason why we are different than Daroods from example. Not all Somalis have a 'Cushitic' origin and we are not one people if paternal lineage is anything to go by.

Trombetta's Somalis in Djibouti and Ethiopia that don't carry haplogroup E1b1b could instead carry haplogroup J or haplogroup E1b1a for all we know. Those clades are of course much less likely than haplogroup T, but we can't know for certain either way since the researchers did not specify what were the other non-E1b1b clades their samples carried.

Not all Somalis have a 'Cushitic' origin and we are not one people if paternal lineage is anything to go by.

Interesting. The overall ancestry suggests otherwise, but at least now we can perhaps understand your perspective a bit better.

[Itrah]

Trombetta's Somalis in Djibouti and Ethiopia that don't carry haplogroup E1b1b could instead carry haplogroup J or haplogroup E1b1a for all we know. Those clades are of course much less likely than haplogroup T, but we can't know for certain either way since the researchers did not specify what were the other non-E1b1b clades their samples carried.

They don't carry E-M2. That lineage is nonexistent in Somalis. The main possibilities are T, A, or J.

Anyhow, only 12 samples, it is not statistically significant.

[Bilis]

Brother Billis has no ill intent. I, for one, am proud that we have a unique situation. We are blessed to be called Somalis, irrespective of our origins. Brothers, we can't go wrong with our culture, faith and religion. How can I say no to a Darood brother due to DNA variation? How could I possibly say no to a Hawiye or Darood girl because she belongs to a different branch of the human phylogenetic tree?

Salaam and I am out.

Thanks walaal. And yes, we certainly are blessed as Somalis.

Where we are now is where the Sudanese were a few centuries ago, right before the discovery of the 200+ pyramids in Meroe. Our ancestral Puntite legacy could not be more fascinating. With more archaeological excavations around the corner, we are on the verge of discovering just how rich and extensive this heritage was.

[LiquidHYDROGEN]

The true Somali are the Haplogroup T. We are the true descendants of Samaale. Haplogroup E3b carriers are all Somalized Xabashi scum and the rest are bantus from the jungles of Congo. We must wipe out this plague upon our country and reclaim our ancetral homeland! Sieg Heil!!!

[Jabuutawi]

I had to come back, albeit for a second .

Billis, you are pushing the envelope a bit too far in suggesting the possibilities other than E1b1b in Djibouti could be, well, Bantu stock. That is a preposterous statement, and you know it brother. Overwhelming probability, in fact, certitude is majority of Djiboutians carry the Y-DNA chromosomal haplogroup T. Haplogroup J, I give you that for the close proximity to what is now referred to as the Arabian peninsula. Though their numbers are negligible in Djibouti.

[Itrah]

The true Somali are the Haplogroup T. We are the true descendants of Samaale. Haplogroup E3b carriers are all Somalized Xabashi scum and the rest are bantus from the jungles of Congo. We must wipe out this plague upon our country and reclaim our ancetral homeland! Sieg Heil!!!

Not all Isaaq are even T, while you are saying this, you could very well be an E1b1b carrier.

[jalaaludin5]

[LiquidHYDROGEN]

I was being sarcastic, I'm not a lunatic.

I'm actually embarrassed to say but I did those silly dna test back when Somalinet was obsessed with them.

Incidentally, I have found that I am not E3b.

[zumaale]

If Dir are not mainly E1b1b that does not mean they are not 'Somali' because it is an undisputed fact that we are the prototype Somalis and the most ancient stock. If Dir turn out to be mainly haplogroup T then one can argue that Somalis with E1b1b1 are nothing more than breakaway proto-Oromos that became part of the Dir Samaale identity.

The most logical explanation is just that E-V32 and T1a entered the Somali peninsula roughly around the same. There is absolutely no evidence on the Dir's autosomal or maternal DNA that they represent a relic ancient population similar to Copts vs other Egyptians or the Basque vs other Spaniards for instance.

Moreover, Oromos are more like proto-Somalis than the other way around. They possess clear signals of Omotic ancestry completely absent in Eastern Somalis. Oromos are absolutely not the ancestors of Somalis, but Somalis could be their ancestors.

The Omotic ancestry in Oromos is the result of the fact that they are less isolated than Somalis and that they extensively border other ethnicities.

Oromos and E-V32 Somalis split up and no one can argue one descended from the other but it can be stated that they are the result of a split within a proto Oromo/E1b1b population in the Horn.

Until, Somali T haplogroup carriers are compared with other T haplogroup carriers like the Lemba were, all else is assumption because no other population in the Horn has so far been shown to possess an overwhelming predominance of haplogroup T. If they were part of the same East Cushitic stock as Oromos and E1b1b Somalis how come T is not evenly spread among other populations and appears bottlenecked among some HOA populations? If all T haplogroup carriers have one common ancestor going back two millenniums as hypothesised by Hallenber et al, then it is perfectly plausible that the bottleneck is the result of a sole migrant from anywhere in the Red Sea region and did not migrate into the Horn with E1b1b Cushites.

Moreoever, the Egyptian Copts and isolated Basque communities in the mountains of the Pyrenees practised endogamy and their autosomnal data reflects this. Somali T haplogroup carriers have mingling with E1b1b carriers since time immemorial hence the autosomnal similarity.

[Itrah]

Samaale, if he ever existed, most likely belonged to E-V32. Not T1a for sure.

The Garre who speak one of the oldest dialects of the Somali linguistic group are 92% E-V32. This can't be a coincidence...

Way more Somalis carry V32 than T. The most parsimonious explanation is that Samaale or whatever you want to call the mythical ancestor of Somalis was an E-V32 guy.

[zumaale]

Where the fuck did I state that haologroup T is only restricted to Dirs. I never commented on Hawiye or other Samaale test results as it appears most individuals who do the test are Darood or Dir. Furthermore, I have not come across an academic study that was conducted in a mainly Hawiye or Samaale city. I have repeatedly stated that the conclusions reached from the current information available is limited until all Somali subclans are tested. Until then all we can do is rely on the few research papers out there and individual test results.

Ok sxb, it's just that a couple of things you said threw me off. For instance, when you expressed doubt that Trombetta's Somalis in Ethiopia (who appear to have high frequencies of haplogroup T) were mainly Ogaden, and suggested instead that they too were likely Dir:

Even the 40 plus people that were tested in Jijiga by Plaster et al were overwhelmingly E1b1b1. Jijiga is a mainly Darood city with a Dir minority. Whereas, 80 percent or so of the 18 Somalis tested in Dire Dawa were haplogroup T

I apologize if I misunderstood you, though. That certainly was not my intent.

All I have argued is that Dirs appear to be mainly haplogroup T as exemplified by individual test results and also from the academic papers on Somalis tested in Dire Dawa and possibly Djibouti. I have also argued that Darood are overwhelmingly E1b1b1 according to current result trends. Whether Arabs Somais are haplogroup T or E1b1b is irrelevant to what I have been pushing in this discussion as I have never stated that we have a monopoly on haplogroup T in the Horn. Furthermore, my statements have been limited to Dir and Darood.

Whatever agenda you have son is none of my concern. Just refrain from making sweeping statements such as that bottleneck theory to explain why Dirs in Northwest Somalia appear to be predominately haplogroup T and ignoring the idea that a common paternal lineage might be the reason why we are different than Daroods from example. Not all Somalis have a 'Cushitic' origin and we are not one people if paternal lineage is anything to go by.

Trombetta's Somalis in Djibouti and Ethiopia that don't carry haplogroup E1b1b could instead carry haplogroup J or haplogroup E1b1a for all we know. Those clades are of course much less likely than haplogroup T, but we can't know for certain either way since the researchers did not specify what were the other non-E1b1b clades their samples carried.

Not all Somalis have a 'Cushitic' origin and we are not one people if paternal lineage is anything to go by.

Interesting. The overall ancestry suggests otherwise, but at least now we can perhaps understand your perspective a bit better.

You have made assumptions one too many times son.

The Ethiopian Somalis tested could be of any clan as I highlighted. Find a post where I stated that they are Dir?

Yes, I have argued consistently that Darood and Dir appear to belong to two different haplogroups based on current result trends. Nothing controversial about that!

Look at my comments on the Djiboutian study, I have repeatedly stated that it cannot be taken for granted that they are necessarily T haplogroup just as in the Ethiopian study.

No, 'Somalis' are not one people Saaxib from a male ancestral viewpoint. You are closer to a Bantu if you are E1b1b1 than me lineage wise.

We are Somalis Saaxib and y-dna is the ultimate proof of qabil ancestry, maternal ancestry counts for shit among us.

[zumaale]

Samaale, if he ever existed, most likely belonged to E-V32. Not T1a for sure.

The Garre who speak one of the oldest dialects of the Somali linguistic group are 92% E-V32. This can't be a coincidence...

Way more Somalis carry V32 than T. The most parsimonious explanation is that Samaale or whatever you want to call the mythical ancestor of Somalis was an E-V32 guy.

DNA might be your specialty but history is not.

The Garre speak a Boran dialect after coming under their influence following the Oromo expansions in the 17th century. Prior to that they spoke Somali.

Secondly, only the Tuuf Garre were tested as they inhabit Marsabit county (Mooyale area) so that study is inconclusive. The Quranyow settle in Mandheera county.

Somali oral history testifies that Dir are the oldest Samaale stock and every Tom, ceeb and Harry links themselves to us ancestrally speaking to certify their Somalinimo so jog on son.