Looting of Mogadishu port material

[King-of-Awdal]

Voltage

No comment, i dont take sides.

[Luq_Ganane]

A/Wahab,

Please stop being a nacas for at least one minute. Nobody is talking about the overthrow of the regimie and if they were justified. Political views are political views. We're talking about AFTER the USC took over Xamar. Heck I'm not even talking about the killings for crying out loud. I'm talking about Xamar being on par infrastructure wise to Cabudwaq (or comparable at least) when it was one of the premier capitols in the entire East African corridor.

[Somaliweyn]

This guy is talking about a phucking city and buildings while around 30.000 people died during the 4 months war.




The hell with the city, I care about the people.

Because what is destroyed can be rebuild...what is dead is dead.


Anyways lets not turn this thread into anti-Barre pro-Barre discussion.

[AbdiWahab252]

Luq,

I am all for debating and exchange of views.

But when u start calling people stupid and nacas, you are being disrespectful.


After the 1991 revolution, there was some chaos as the rise of Ali Mahdi who declared himself President put a wrench in the plans of the USC-SPM-SPM accords to form a government of unity. Ali Mahdi was covertly being supported by the exgovernment loyalists to create division among the USC. Maxamed Abshir has been quoted on numerous occasions as saying he was the Godfather of the Abgaal-HG war.

Ali Mahdi's supporters attacked the SPM. This was the second deadly blow of Mahdi's government.They also were advocating ceasing the war on Siyaad Barre who fled to Baidoa even though most of the military officers saw that Siyaad would attempt a comeback which came true.

Caydiid unlike Siyaad Barre was never given a fair chance to implement the USC-SPM-SNM accords. If the Barre regime and Ali Mahdi had not stepped in to create chaos with each hoping they would rule, there would have been a peaceful Somalia.

However, the Ali Mahdi & Barre strategy failed to work and helped contribute to the post 1991 wreck

To sum it up:

Mistakes of the Post1991:

1. Declaration of Ali Mahdi as President & formation of an illegitimate government contrary to the USC-SPM-SNM ACcords: leading to SNM's loss of power as a movement and formation of Somaliland.

2. Siyaad's strategy to return to power at all costs instead of exiting peacefully.

3. The attack on the SPM ally by the Mahdi Faction.


If Siyaad had allowed the nation to move on just like how Somalis allowed him to depose the civilian government without a single bullet being fired even though certain elements advocated a fully military response, Somalia would be better off.

[King-of-Awdal]

I dont wanna sound dumb but as i read the news from around the world back than even the UN AND THE WORLD AGREED TO Ali Mahdi as being the Transitional president, am lost.

[GENERAL_SNM]

If you want my unbiased opinion on this matter you are both right.
The blame can be shared between Barre's(aun)selfishness and his enemies selfishness.The both had their own interest at heart and could not care about somalia.
I think the main difference between the hawyie anti Barre(aun)and Barre himself was that.The hawyie leaders had no reponsiblity for somali but for hawyie empowerment.And the completed that goal.
Barre on the otherhand takes alot more of the reponsiblity for the state of somalia today,it was his greed to put himself and his interest ahead of the interest of his country that distroyed somalia.

[Somaliweyn]

''Ali Mahdi & Barre strategy ''


AW,

I fail to understand how you can critize Barre's oppressive dictatorship while at the same time painting this picture of Gen. Aideed as a saint.


Lugh at least admits the errors of Barre...more than you are able to admit about Aideed, who was hotheaded, arrogant, selfish etc. The 4 months war was mainly triggered by his all-out assault on Mudulood in Mogadishu.


SO lets stop this nonsense..,,if you want to critize others...you need first to look internally and critize your own men.

[Niya]

Can some-one provide me with references/sources of similar qayl-dhaan issued against the biililiqeeysa of the last 14 years?????

[Luq_Ganane]

First of all without being biased to compare Caydid and MSB is a farce to begin with.

MSB was a presdient of a nation and will be judged for the wellbeing and governence of the ENTIRE nation. Caydid was just a tribal warloard who will be judged on the welfare of (Hawiye). Even in serving Hawiye this man was a failure as when Mogadishu was taken over the entire Hawiye were united, however after the takeover he proceeded on attacking clans like Xawadle, Abgal etc. with the same zeal and fervor he attacked MSB's forces. This shows that his beef wasn't even really with Barre, Darood or anybody but his beef was with whoever would stand in his way. Remember his designs on getting power didn't start in the '80s like every other disgruntled group but actually started as soon as Barre came to power out of jealousy.

So all in all MSB will be judged on welfare of SOMALIA, and Caydid will be judged on the welfare of HAWIYE. It goes without a doubt that MSB did more for Somalia than Cayidid did for Hawiye, as the USC was a Hawiye political grouping. Caydid's killing by his own kinsmen shows the lack of regard even his sub-sub clan had for him.

[AbdiWahab252]

Somaliweyn & Luq.

Let us all agree to disagree on the Barre vs. Caydiid sheeko. Both men are dead and are facing their maker.

So let us focus on those that are alive and leave the dead.

[Voltage]

Luq, ever the Diplomat.

[Luq_Ganane]

A/Wahab,

Very well. As I said earlier, discussing the past is useless. Somalia is the laughing stock of the world, so I don't see how discussing the past will do anything. Although my personal thoughts on Somalia are this: Yes, I agree that the warlord era was the aftermath of a power vaccum where nobody had the political clout, outlook, strength, charisma etc. to take over. However now I think we are leaving the warlord era to the era of neo-colonialism whether we like it or not.

[GENERAL_SNM]

[quote="Luq_Ganane"]First of all without being biased to compare Caydid and MSB is a farce to begin with.

MSB was a presdient of a nation and will be judged for the wellbeing and governence of the ENTIRE nation. Caydid was just a tribal warloard who forget looking out for the well being of a nation but wasn't even a benefactor of his support group (Hawiye). Even in serving Hawiye this man was a failure as when Mogadishu was taken over the entire Hawiye were united, however after the takeover he proceeded on attacking clans like Xawadle, Abgal etc. with the same zeal and fervor he attacked MSB's forces. This shows that his beef wasn't even really with Barre, Darood or anybody but his beef was with whoever would stand in his way. Remember his designs on getting power didn't start in the '80s like every other disgruntled group but actually started as soon as Barre came to power out of jealousy.

So all in all MSB will be judged on welfare of SOMALIA, and Caydid will be judged on the welfare of HAWIYE. It goes without a doubt that MSB did more for Somalia than Cayidid did for Hawiye, as the USC was a Hawiye political grouping. Caydid's killing by his own kinsmen shows the lack of regard even his sub-sub clan had for him.[/quote]

I think you judge caydid from an enemy point of view,and never give him any credit for what he acheived.And why should you his success was your faluire.
Also the interhawyie war's were not all aidiid's to blame.Becouse if use the same logic that you use for Barre,"in that his been dead for along time what have hawyie achieved since" Well Aidiid's been dead for a while so look at hawyies position it's got worse then when he was alive.if he was alive Yusuf would not be in mogdisho,ethoipia would not have entered xammer.So when you look at it from a hawyie point of view like you constantly remind us of barre(aun) he had bastars below him and since he died hawyie's has been sold to the nearest buyer.

[Luq_Ganane]

General SNM,

Don't talk about issues of which you have no knowledge. The fracturing of Hawiye occured do to the manical power surge Caydid made in trying to force entire Hawiye to submit to this rule. When Ali Mahdi, and some Xawadle guys didn't dance to his tune he attacked both clans and started two vicious wars. The 4 month war, and the wars for Beledweyn. Any person with knowledge would go this. Btw this is southern politics. Go celebrate a fabricated Lascanood victory or something.

[AbdiWahab252]

Luq,

General SNM is more correct in his assessment. Things have gotten worse for the Hawiye since his passing.

By the way, if General SNM is not correct, how are you as a Darood more correct than him ?