Addressing Costa and the belief of many Somalis.

[Megatron]

[quote="Alluring"]I am not cold-blooded, you have to get to know me on a personal level. I am actually very sweet![/quote]

Indeed. Wife material.

[DANGIRL]

[quote="Alluring"]I do not know why men think women are emotional? There are some cold-blooded women out in the world, that have not cried a tear since birth and would not piss on you if you were on fire.[/quote]

Amen to that!

[Ican]

Not only inheritance, but witnesses to a crime as well. Two women witnesses are equal to one male witness in Islam.

As for Siyade Barre, he's policies were socialist and he only enacted those socialist programs and policies to please the Russians. And as soon as the Russians abandoned him, he quickly abandoned he's socialist policies to gain favor with the Americans. I don't think Islamic jurisprudence was ever on his mind.

[sadeboi]

Ican, than you very much.

Another misconception of Islam, a womens testimony is EQUAL to a mans testimony EXCEPT for financial transactions, and sometimes a womens testimony must be taken more seriously then men as in the case of adultery. Many people do not really read the quran and try to understand it themselves, they just hear it from shiekhs who do not properly explain it, and thats why many of them are jahil and will say such stuff as women are not euqal.

[ 2:282] O you who believe, when you transact a loan for any period, you shall write it down. An impartial scribe shall do the writing. ........ Two men shall serve as witnesses; if not two men, then a man and two women whose testimony is acceptable to all. Thus, if one woman becomes biased, the other will remind her. It is the obligation of the witnesses to testify when called upon to do so. ......

Financial transactions are the ONLY situations where two womens testimony is equal to that one man. This is to guard against the real possibility that one witness may marry the other witness, and thus cause her to be biased. It is a recognized fact that women are more emotionally vulnerable than men. Nothing else in the quran says women have less of a say in crime witness or any other witnessing other then those that pertain to money.

[Gedo_Boy]

Alluring & DANGIRL could make some grown men cry

[Ican]

[quote="sadeboi"]Ican, than you very much.

Another misconception of Islam, a womens testimony is EQUAL to a mans testimony EXCEPT for financial transactions, and sometimes a womens testimony must be taken more seriously then men as in the case of adultery. Many people do not really read the quran and try to understand it themselves, they just hear it from shiekhs who do not properly explain it, and thats why many of them are jahil and will say such stuff as women are not euqal.

[ 2:282] O you who believe, when you transact a loan for any period, you shall write it down. An impartial scribe shall do the writing. ........ Two men shall serve as witnesses; if not two men, then a man and two women whose testimony is acceptable to all. Thus, if one woman becomes biased, the other will remind her. It is the obligation of the witnesses to testify when called upon to do so. ......

Financial transactions are the ONLY situations where two womens testimony is equal to that one man. This is to guard against the real possibility that one witness may marry the other witness, and thus cause her to be biased. It is a recognized fact that women are more emotionally vulnerable than men. Nothing else in the quran says women have less of a say in crime witness or any other witnessing other then those that pertain to money.[/quote]

So you've read the whole quran and you've understood it, I take it?


Now, the questions becomes if women are "emotionally vulnerable" when it comes to financial transactions, what makes them less vulnerable when witnessing other things. Surly, the same problems of bias and female emotional vulnerability arise even in a general case. I don't think someone interpreting this verse to apply to all cases would be wrong.

Men and Women are not equal in Islam, and their is nothing wrong with that. As soon as you start saying "Except" in this case, the whole Idea of equality is out of the window. Does Islam judge women fairly and relatively adequately? yes.

[sadeboi]

First my comment was not directed towards you, I was speaking about the good majority of people including I, and how we always the macalin/shikehs inform us of things but we never try to research or really study the meaning of the quran ourselves and that causes many of us to misunderstand the meaning of the ayats and surats. Personal attack ma'aho so is daji, waxaan ka hadleyno waa diin walaal.


Walaal, the whole notion of women testimony being worth half of a man derived from surat al-baqra. Now the aayat speaks about financial transactions and how it must be documented, it states that you make two men a witness if not then make a man and two women the witness. There is nothing else in the quran that speaks about the witness of women being half of a man except when its about financial transactions and when it documented.

[quote]I don't think someone interpreting this verse to apply to all cases would be wrong.
[/quote]

Well it is wrong, if there is a murder and a man and women witness the crime you would take the mens word just because you DID NOT THINK INTERPRETING THE VERSE SO IT CAN APPLY TO ALL CASES WOULD BE WRONG. That aayat only speaks of women testimony about financial transactions and must be in a written document.

"Believers, when you make a deal for a loan for a prescribed period of time, write down the agreement. A scribe should write down the agreement between you, with justice. The scribe should not refuse to write it down, as God gave him the knowledge of writing. So he must write it down. The debtor should dictate the writing and [while doing so,] he must fear God, his Lord [and dictate it justly] and not reduce any part of the amount. If the debtor is not of a sound mind or is weak or is in any other way incapacitated to dictate the agreement, then his guardian may dictate [the terms on his behalf] with justice. Make two of your men a witness on this agreement. In case two men are not available, then a man and two women. Such witnesses as you choose. [Two women in place of one man have been advised, so] that if one of them errs, the other may remind her. The witnesses should not refuse when they are called to testify." (Al-Baqarah 2: 282)



[quote]Men and Women are not equal in Islam[/quote]

Do not misinterpret the religion walaal. That is wrong.

[BABYGIRL123]

[quote="Gedo_Boy"]Alluring & DANGIRL could make some grown men cry [/quote]

Cold Blooded Women Lol Just Kidding.

[Somalian_Boqor]

[quote="sadeboi"]somalian boqor your a simpleton, you don't even know whats being dicussed ---religion--- and you speak about Marexaan and what not. Imaan ba ka maqan.[/quote]


You quite hilarious my dear friend. When did you become an expert in religious matters if I may ask?

Siad Barre was far from a reglious men and what he was doing was for political reasons and political reasons only!!!

Don't get carried away.

[sadeboi]

It would really be appreciated if people take the time to understand whats being discussed before they type away.

[Ican]

Sadeboi

Their is no misinterpretation of the religion sxb, I'm just looking at it in an objective way. Now maybe your definition of equal is different from mine, because for me their is no such thing as "exceptions" when it comes to equality. Now even if that verse only applies to financial transactions, than that in itself is an indication that women and men are not equal in Islam. For if they were, there would be no need for two sets of rules.

This doesn't mean that women are treated unjustly, it just means they are treated differently. Just as one man may not be equal in his knowledge of the diin to another another man. A woman is not equal to a man.

You mentioned inheritance, and how clearly gender plays a role on what each person gets, this is another where men and women are not treated equally. The son inherits more than the daughter and it's not on 50:50 basis.

What about going to the mosque, is it not true that women are not required to attend the mosque while it's compulsory for men. What about traveling? Is it not required that women travel with mahrem and not for men.

Clearly Islam may treats both women and women fairly, but not on an equal basis. That was the point.

[Voltage]

Allah created us and so there is no one who knows us more than him. Women and Men are treated fairly by Allah according to the differences in the nature of our sexes. Keep in mind this was written in the 5th Century, imagine a woman anywhere in the world owning business, inheriting, etc.

[FAH1223]

this all goes back to

WOMEN AND MAN ARE EQUAL IN THE SIGHT OF ALLAH SWT

BUT THEY ARE NOT THE SAME...

[Luq_Ganane]

^^

Ican,

Women are not always Daahir (Pure) therefore they cannot always pray, are not required to go to the Masjid, are not required to pray Jumcah, give Dacwah, in the times of the Prophet (saw) they wouldn't participate in battles and so forth. Therefore you're right in that they'll never be 'equal' to men in worship and Religious standing in the HEREAFTER as the men. However that was not the topic of discussion. The topic of discussion is inheritance which has its own rules and stipulations. Women deserve every penny that is owed to them in inhertence, and this right cannot be violated as its a decree from Allah.

[sadeboi]

Ican

Listen walaal you can't take one thing and say thats how everything works. For example a womens testimony in adultery should be taken more serious and listened to then a mans, clearly does that mean that men are not equal to women? No.

About the financial transactions, even in that aayat it says that only women is a witnesses and one is just their to remind her in case shes makes a mistake--- and thats because of the prevailing social conditions, whereby women back in those days did not have financial experience.

About inheritance I already explained that there are cases where a women would get more then a man. And only a full brother can get more inheritance then his sister because HE IS OBLIGATED IN THE QURAN TO TAKE CARE OF THE FAMILY and she is not. It has to do with who has greater responsibility and not because women are unequal to men.

Women are not obligated to go to the mosque because allah understand that they are busy with raising their kids and household things therefore ALLAH MAKES IT EASY FOR THEM AND TELLS THEM TO STAY HOME AND PRAY THERE, and thats why they get more ajar to pray home then to go to the mosque, because they are closer to their children at home then at the mosque.

About traveling, it should not be a difficult to understand, a women alone is easier to be raped and abused more then a women who is with her close male kin.

Everyone of these "exceptions" are so to make life easier for women and not because women are unequal to women.


Luq,

Your far wrong the ican, the Quran states that one’s gender will be of no matter on their reward or punishment in the next life:

“If any do deeds of righteousness,- be they male or female - and have faith, they will enter Heaven, and not the least injustice will be done to them.” (Quran 4:124)

“Whoever works righteousness, man or woman, and has Faith, verily, to him will We give a new Life, a life that is good and pure, and We will bestow on such their reward according to the best of their actions.” (Quran 16:97)

“He that works evil will not be requited but by the like thereof: and he that works a righteous deed - whether man or woman - and is a Believer- such will enter the Garden (of Bliss): Therein will they have abundance without measure.” (Quran 40:40)

“Indeed, the Muslim men and Muslim women - the believing men and believing women, the obedient men and obedient women, the truthful men and truthful women, the patient men and patient women, the humble men and humble women, the charitable men and charitable women, the fasting men and fasting women, the men who guard their private parts and the women who do so, and the men who remember God often and the women who do so - for all has God prepared forgiveness and a great reward.” (Quran 33:35)