Salafi Advise to Takfiris.....

[American Salafi]

Waryaa,

You know exactly what I mean when I say "He wasn't under the payroll of the Saudi government." How much are they paying you?

Answer me this: Why did your beloved King strip Sh. Albaani of his citizenship & banish him from Saudi Arabia?

No. I don't know what you mean. Its like saying kolombo is on the payroll of the USA Gov. for working at the Postal Service, so that means your an American agent. Your arguments are always vague and ambigous.

Am I saying the Saudi Gov. is perfect. No. What we are saying is not rocket science. The correct methodology with regards to the Rulers is that you obey them unless they order you in disobedience to Allah. Why? what if they are corrupt or Dhaliims? Still if they beat your backs or take your wealth you must obey them as narrated in the hadith of the messenger, saw. Islam is not America or the western world where if you hate your leaders you must show it through demostrations, insults or riots. No. In Islam one must be patient and make Du'a for the Rulers. If you accuse me of being on the "payroll of Saudi Arabia" for loving the sunnah and sticking to the letter, then so be it. The way I see it is that your really zealoust and you see the salafis as being puppets for a corrupt rulers but akhi you have see it from a different angle. i was the same as you before I started reading the books of the salaf and how they dealed with these issues.

[American Salafi]

Suufi

Al-Shabaab have lots of errors but if you compare it with deviation of Suufis it is much smaller in the scale. Suufis are at the next level with regards to deviation.

[American-Suufi]

Suufi

Al-Shabaab have lots of errors but if you compare it with deviation of Suufis it is much smaller in the scale. Suufis are at the next level with regards to deviation.

I didn't know you were a funny wahabi. Everyone who doesn't fit in your sect is a deviant. Suufis at least weren't the creation of Britain and Al-Saud's and they don't destroy and neither force to rule other Muslims. Individuals are judged by Allah SWT and not by your clerics who you dudes follow them like idols.

Ramadan Karim

[ModerateMuslim]

The correct methodology with regards to the Rulers is that you obey them unless they order you in disobedience to Allah. Why? what if they are corrupt or Dhaliims? Still if they beat your backs or take your wealth you must obey them as narrated in the hadith of the messenger, saw.

dude, no disrespect, but are serious with that statement? and are you're familiar with muslim history?

[American Salafi]

suufi

As you know the path to Jannah is one not many. There will be 73 groups and all in the hell-fire except one and the companions asked who is the saved group. the prophet replied, that they are upon what He is upon and his companions. So don't make the Haqq appear to be in different paths. The haqq can be found in one path only which is the path of following the Quran and the sunnah with the understanding of the companions. So if you doubtful about which path the Truth contains then I suggest you look for it. there is no such thing as we all have some haqq and that its wrong to suggest that the path to Jannah is one not many. Am I saying that I am saved, No. but what i am saying is that the path that leads to victory and Jannah is the path of following the salaf in Aqeedah and Minhaj.

[suga_n_spice]

Aduunyo gadoon

[Kolombo]

In Islam one must be patient and make Du'a for the Rulers. If you accuse me of being on the "payroll of Saudi Arabia" for loving the sunnah and sticking to the letter, then so be it. The way I see it is that your really zealoust and you see the salafis as being puppets for a corrupt rulers but akhi you have see it from a different angle. i was the same as you before I started reading the books of the salaf and how they dealed with these issues.

Who are these rulers? Those who rise to power without the aid & support of the kuffar, those who also rule by Shari'ah. The Saudi government & many other Muslim governments do not fit under this category.

Sh. Ibn Baaz (raheemullah) was asked: "What are the actions that if a Muslim does will make him an apostate?"

His response: Supporting the mushrikeen & kuffaar and helping them against the Muslims. The evidence for that is the verse in al-maa'idah #51:

"O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as Awliyaa (friends, protectors, helpers), they are but Awliyaa of each other. And if any amongst you takes them (as Awliyaa), then surely, he is one of them. Verily, Allaah guides not those people who are the Zaalimoon (polytheists and wrongdoers and unjust)"

[al-Maa'idah 5:51]

Source: http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/31807/mo ... the%20dead

Which should be obeyed first: a verse in the Qur'an or a hadith taken out of context?

[American Salafi]

Kolombo

As you know many muslims contradict the quran knowing it or not. For example, the prophet said in an authentic hadith that the insulting your brother is fisq and fighting your brother is kuffr. is the prophet talking about Kuffr that expels one from the religion, No. You quoted Imaam Ibn Baaz concerning Apostasy of aiding the kuffar of against the Muslims but the dangerous thing your doing is taking a statement of the Scholar and directly applying it to this situation not knowing the context and the intention. This is what I am stressing to you brothers is not to rush into affairs that go beyond your knowledge. That is why we leave the affairs of Takfir for the people of Knowledge. If you can give me any fatawa concerning the big Ulaama about the Major Kuffr of the saudi Gov. then i will shut up. The only problem is there exist no FATAWAS. So lets calm down with all these takfirs and nonsense talk.

[Kolombo]

AS,

What are the actions which, if a Muslim does them, he will be an apostate from Islam?

Praise be to Allaah.

Shaykh Abd al-Azeez ibn Abd-Allaah ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

Note that Allaah has commanded all people to enter Islam and to adhere to it and to beware of whatever is contrary to it. He sent His Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) to call mankind to that. He tells us that those who follow him will be guided and that those who turn away from him have gone astray.

In many verses He warns against the means that lead to apostasy and all forms of shirk and kufr. The scholars (may Allaah have mercy on them) have said, when discussing apostasy, that a Muslim may apostatize from his religion by doing many acts that nullify Islam, which makes it permissible to shed his blood and seize his wealth, and which will put him beyond the pale of Islam. Among the most serious and most common of these things are ten which were mentioned by Shaykh Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhaab and other scholars (may Allaah have mercy on them all). We will mention them in brief here, so that you and others can beware of them, in the hope that you will be safe and sound. We will also explain a little about them after mentioning each one.

#8. Supporting the mushrikeen and helping them against the Muslims. The evidence for that is the verse in which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

"O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as Awliyaa (friends, protectors, helpers), they are but Awliyaa of each other. And if any amongst you takes them (as Awliyaa), then surely, he is one of them. Verily, Allaah guides not those people who are the Zaalimoon (polytheists and wrongdoers and unjust)"

[al-Maa'idah 5:51]

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/31807/mo ... the%20dead

[American Salafi]

Kolombo

You don't understand what I am saying. I agree with you 100% percent that if someone does act of Major Kufr than he is a kafir. the problem your not understanding is that who has the responsiblity of declaring one to be a Kaffir. Is it me or you. No. We leave that issue to the people of knowledge, the ulaama. You have been posting for last couple of days the same thing. I agree what you posted but i am looking for a fatwaa from the major scholars making takfir on the Saudi Gov. on those bases.

the problem I have some people on this forum is them declaring other muslims Kuffar. Its dangerous for someone that doesn't have knowledge to write blank checks to anyone he or she feels has entered in Major kuffr because of them reading specific verses in the Quran and not being a scholar.

[gurey25]

why does salafi here talk about kufr?
i dont think anyone is talking about kufr here, but we are talking about the illegitimacy of your ideological masters..

[sadeboi]

American-Salafi is hellbent on the notion of calling Muslims kaffir, when that is not the argument here; the argument is about your ideology

Can you get pass this believe that people on here belief anyone can call someone kaffr, and explain your ideology. What do you think is the right step in dealing with Muslim leaders who do not adhere to religion fully, who work with kuffrs and even gained reign by means of the kuffr [allah ka sakow], and who oppress the masses?

[Kolombo]

the problem I have some people on this forum is them declaring other muslims Kuffar. Its dangerous for someone that doesn't have knowledge to write blank checks to anyone he or she feels has entered in Major kuffr because of them reading specific verses in the Quran and not being a scholar.

Who's declaring anyone a Kuffaar here? You asked for a fatwa proving the illegitimacy of the Saudi government and I showed you what Sh. Ibn Baaz said about this issue. You said there are different types of kufr, how can we be sure that the kufr Sh. Ibn Baaz is talking about is the major one? I showed you proof that aiding the kuffaar against the Muslims equals kufr-al-kabaa'ir and anyone who does it has apostasized from Islam:

In many verses He warns against the means that lead to apostasy and all forms of shirk and kufr. The scholars (may Allaah have mercy on them) have said, when discussing apostasy, that a Muslim may apostatize from his religion by doing many acts that nullify Islam, which makes it permissible to shed his blood and seize his wealth, and which will put him beyond the pale of Islam. Among the most serious and most common of these things are ten which were mentioned by Shaykh Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhaab and other scholars (may Allaah have mercy on them all).

Out of those 10 things includes aiding the kuffaar against the Muslims. This is what a well-respected scholar has written, how can anyone claim that the Saudi government should be obeyed when they have broken Allah's laws and transgressed to the point of no return? You're blind, even rejecting a verse in the Qur'an, just to make an excuse for vile individuals who have no knowledge of your existence. Fear Allah and return to the straight path.

[Salahuddiin]

Salafi Student

I know Albani's views on kufr and iman and what is known from him is that he had some irja' about these issues. This is not to insult him but just to state the fact that other scholars have said. Everyone has mistakes no matter how great the person is and Albani's mistakes were about iman and kufr, and this doesn't lessen his status as a great muhaddith. The problem with madakhil is that you can't even point out an error from a shaikh or you are deviant. Funny how neo-salafis speak out against blind following while are guilty to it when speaking about "four imams" (Albani, ibn Baz, ibn Uthaimin, Muqbil). Even Albani's famous students Abu Ruhaim and Muhammad Shaqra (who led the janaza on Albani) pointed out these mistakes from him. Also ibn Uthaimin opposed some of Albani's views about iman. Albani's opinion was that kufr is in the heart and kufr in action is always only minor kufr and this was not the view of the salaf about iman. For example Albani said that there's no proof that one who believes in Islam and never does anything according to it could be said he's a kafir, or his opinion that actions can't make person a kafir and even if someone makes sujud to the idol it is the belief in the heart that makes him a kafir not the action in itself.

American Salafi

Is Hamud ibn Cuqla al Shucaibi major enough for you? Or chances are that you haven't even heard from him, usually neo-salafi kids are taught that only major scholars are the "four imams" Albani, ibn Baz, ibn Uthaimin and Muqbil and after that they are given few other names who are "reliable" and that's it, rest of the culama don't count s nothing and they can be looked down upon. What was really shock to me that some neo-salafis didn't even know who Allama Shanqiti was...

[salafi_student]

Saluhudiin, your either extreme Jahail or an evil innovator (Dajal).

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=mC2hOttuH ... re=related

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=RIwrtnOcc ... re=related

Seek knowledge before you accuse scholars, I even made it easy for you in the English language.

Make sure you listen to all of it! Insha Allah.