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First off I believe the labels are all wrong. Kush refers to Sudan, and I believe the proper name for Nilotic people is Kushi. The horn of Africa people called Cushitic today I believe should be called Pouni people, from Poun (the proper way to pronounce Punt is Poun).

My own theory is that the split between Oromo and Somali happened when Camels were introduced to Somalia about 1500 years ago. Oromo citizenship under Waaqafeena requires ownership of cattle, if you do not own cattle you are not Oromo, you are Gabbaro (or in Somali, Gaboye), essentially a subservient position.

Cave paintings show that early Pouni people worshipped cattle, so they took cattle ownership very seriously. Cattle herding is marginal in many parts of the Horn of Africa today though this was not always the case. Here is the horn of Africa today:



5000-7000 years ago though things were very different:



The slow drying of the horn drove cattle herders further south into the recent homeland of the Oromo people in Bale and north Kenya, but for religious and cultural reasons were slow to adopt camels, UNTIL Islam arrived. Essentially, a branch of the Pouni people near Harar scratching out a living herding their cattle became Muslims. This had a dramatic effect for two reasons, one: Islamic citizenship is not tied to cattle ownership, and two: Arabian influences encouraged camel use rather than discouraging it. Prior to this event, the only inhabitants of the semi-desert scrublands were small groups of hunters and gatherers, a branch of the Pouni people similar to the Waata people of today. The camel-herding Pouni expanded rapidly throughout Somalia and pushed aside the Waata-like Pouni from the best land. The defeated hunters became the Midgan people, and the camel herders became the Somali people.

Gara Man wrote:First of all this is a theory of mine not established fact nor has sany particular study been focused on this. Okay with that out of the way let me respond to what you wrote.

Besides Oromo do not call themselves Galla...Somalis did and then the Ethiopians plaigarized.Oromo have never called themselves that word and you gave no evidence for why you "think" Ali means Galla or gave any substantial evidence to say why you think Oromo might have at any point called themselves Galla.

Let me tell go dig on the word Galla, it can be found anciently present in many places across the globe. Also i have never said Oromos called themselves galla it was given to us like you said. but please tel me why somalis have Gal and waq in their tribe names? The suffix of "Ali" seems it is a curruptive Galla.

Also, Somalis never called themselves "Somali" until the colonialists. Even in poetry, prose, and modern literatue they call themselves Soomaalay.

Look back at what i said... i gave nod to might be a classifcation of another people to somalis not what you guys refered to yourselves. Just like oromos didnt call themselves galla as somalis whould not call themselve "Som-Galla".

And I understand people do not like the term "Cushitic" so i guess they ackwoldege they are arabized nilotics.

What are you talking about? Bro you make no sense. Somalis have gal and waaq in their tribe names because Somali is not only a Cushitic language but a neighbor of Oromos so linguistic transfusion is possible. If you look at old Somali poems, they sometimes refer to God as Waaq. So because French and Spanish call death "muerte", one is from the other?

Also, you make no reason for thinking "suffix" of "Ali" is from Galla, which Oromos do not call themselves and came to the linguistic use of the Horn of African people from the Somali word for infidel (gaal, Gallo plural) when Somalis embraced Islam.

Again, Somalis call themselves Somaalay and still do in classical literature. Somalia and Somali is a corruption of Soomaalay that the colonists just gave us and goes with the latin suffix of designating peoples and nationalities (-ia, ian, and i). Pakistani, Somali, Egyptian, Ethiopian,.

Soomaalay docdeenna,
Sow dorraad ma ahayn!
Soomaalay docdeenna,
Dibindaabiyo ciilba,
Soomaalay docdeennaa

http://xaranka.tripod.com/

James, the problem is you weren't there don't have first hand observation which means you need to have credible sources which you never display.

Voltage wrote:James, the problem is you weren't there don't have first hand observation which means you need to have credible sources which you never display.

To find meaningful answers to these sorts of questions will require archaeology in a peaceful Somalia, for now my hypothesis is merely that, a hypothesis. The work simply has not been done to prove anything.
My theory is based on the genetic studies and climactic history that tell one part of the history of Somalia, studies regarding the spread of camel domestication, and preserved cultural traditions in pre-Islamic Oromo, Rendile and Hadiya culture.

For an actual thesis, I would need much harder evidence. The reason I do not cite my sources is that they are not very strong, they all imply things but implication is not proof, which is why it's all speculation.

oromo's don't have the word "waaq" in their abtiris but somalis do? that's interesting info.

Voltage wrote:All you did was say "I think". Besides Oromo do not call themselves Galla...Somalis did and then the Ethiopians plaigarized. Oromo have never called themselves that word and you gave no evidence for why you "think" Ali means Galla or gave any substantial evidence to say why you think Oromo might have at any point called themselves Galla.

Also, Somalis never called themselves "Somali" until the colonialists. Even in poetry, prose, and modern literatue they call themselves Soomaalay. FInally the classification of "Cushitic" or "Cushite" people is by language and even in language proto-Cushite, not proto-Oromo...don't know where you get the precedence of Oromo and succeeding of the other Cushitic peoples are. They are equal in development and separation from proto-Cushite. If you look at the Iranian language of Farsi (Persi), or Pashtun, or Daro, or Tajiki...etc they all come from proto-Iranian which means they separated from the Iranians. This is not the case with the Cushites who developed independently from each other.

do you speak somali fluently?

The name Kush appears in Sudan before the invasion of the Nilotic Nuba people (created Nubia) reference to the Beja people. Kush/Cush is also Upper Egypt. Kush then appears in Southwestern Iran and all of Iraq called Cushistan/Kushistan The people are called Kassites or Cassites or Cushites. The first kingdom of ancient Sumeria and Sumerians called themselves Kishites/Kish or Cush. The Bible, Genesis says that the kingdom of Cush was between the rivers of Euphrates and Tigris (Iraq), Gihon (Egypt, Nile), Pishon (Indus, India), and the land of Havilah (Arabia). Kush is the referenced again then called referring to a people called Kissoi the ancient Cyprians and Cretans. They were called the children of Kissos or Cush/Zeus. Tradition still states that Zeus/Cush is buried in Crete. Cush/Kush is then mentioned in a mountain range the Hindu Kush Mountains between Afghanistan and Pakistan. The Kushan Empire appears in India in the 1st century A.D. The Puranas of the Hindu Scriptures clearly say that a the Cusha-Dwipa ruled an empire stretching from India all the way to North Africa and the Horn of Africa. The Puranas however say that the Cushites or the Cushi-Dwipa ruled India before moving west to Africa. Islamic sources state that Adam the first man was blackskinned so was his wife and they landed in India or Sri Lanka (it doesn't matter they were connected a million years ago. Have you ever wondered why the Tamils and other Dravidians look like Horn if Africans.

samatar133 wrote:

Voltage wrote:All you did was say "I think". Besides Oromo do not call themselves Galla...Somalis did and then the Ethiopians plaigarized. Oromo have never called themselves that word and you gave no evidence for why you "think" Ali means Galla or gave any substantial evidence to say why you think Oromo might have at any point called themselves Galla.

Also, Somalis never called themselves "Somali" until the colonialists. Even in poetry, prose, and modern literatue they call themselves Soomaalay. FInally the classification of "Cushitic" or "Cushite" people is by language and even in language proto-Cushite, not proto-Oromo...don't know where you get the precedence of Oromo and succeeding of the other Cushitic peoples are. They are equal in development and separation from proto-Cushite. If you look at the Iranian language of Farsi (Persi), or Pashtun, or Daro, or Tajiki...etc they all come from proto-Iranian which means they separated from the Iranians. This is not the case with the Cushites who developed independently from each other.

do you speak somali fluently?

Why are you laughing at your ignorance?

Coeus wrote:Im not a "cushite" Im Somali.

true, cushetic is just name to categorize language and people but that doesn't mean anything
more importantly we should just never say it..

here's my theory on the origin of " Cushites " or whatever you choose to call it
the map is based on genetics studies



http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j198/ ... rica-2.jpg


E1b1b1-m35

E1b1b (E-M215) and its dominant sub-clade E1b1b1 (E-M35) are believed to have first appeared in East Africa about 22,400 years ago

Underhill (2002) believes that the structure and regional pattern of E-M35 sub-clades potentially give "reagents with which to infer specific episodes of population histories associated with the Neolithic agricultural expansion". Concerning European E-M35 within this scheme, Underhill and Kivisild (2007) have remarked that E1b1b seems to represent a late-Pleistocene migration from North Africa to Europe over the Sinai Peninsula in Egypt

E1b1b1a (or E-M78)

E1b1b1a (or E-M78), formerly E3b1a, is the name of a major Y chromosome haplogroup found in North Africa, the Horn of Africa, Western Asia and Europe

he E-M78 mutation is thought to have occurred about 18,600 years ago (17,300–20,000 years ago), with some possibility that it may have been more recent.[Note 1]
Based on genetic STR variance data, Cruciani et al. (2007) suggests that this subclade originated in "Northeastern Africa", which in the study refers specifically to Egypt and Libya.

E1b1b1b (E-M81)

is the most common Y chromosome haplogroup in the Maghreb, dominated by its sub-clade E-M183. It is thought to have originated in the area of North Africa 5,600 years ago

E1b1b1a1 (E-V12)

This sub-clade of E-M78 is the one which appears to have split from the others first (it arose ca. 13.7-15.2 kya[1]). According to Cruciani et al. (2007), E-V12 likely originated in North Africa

found at especially high levels (44.3%) in Southern Egyptians

E1b1b1a1b (E-V32)

Cruciani et al. (2007) suggest that this sub-clade of E-V12 originated in North Africa , and then subsequently expanded further south into the Horn of Africa, where it is now prevalent

estimated to have arisen about 8,500 years ago. They stated that "the highest frequencies in the three Cushitic-speaking groups: the Borana from Kenya (71.4%), the Oromo from Ethiopia (32.0%), and the Somali (52.2%)
and in Sudan, especially among the Beja, Masalit and Fur. The Beja, like Somalis and Oromos, speak an Afro-Asiatic language and live along the "corridor" from Egypt to the Horn of Africa. Hassan et al. (2008) interpret this as reinforcing the "strong correlation between linguistic and genetic diversity" and signs of relatedness between the Beja and the peoples of the Horn of Africa such as the Amhara and Oromo. On the other hand, the Masalit and Fur live in Darfur and speak a Nilo-Saharan language. The authors observed in their study that "the Masalit possesses by far the highest frequency of the E-M78 and of the E-V32 haplogroup", which they believe suggests "either a recent bottleneck in the population or a proximity to the origin of the haplogroup." However, More recently, Tillmar et al. (2009) typed 147 males from Somalia for 12 Y-STR loci, and observed that 77% (113/147) had typical E1b1b1a1b haplotypes. This is the highest frequency of E1b1b1a1b found in any single sample population.

.

Somalis are foreigners in Horn of Africa, I read somewhere that we came from North Africa (South Egypt?) when we came here we pushed all of the Oromo, Habesha, and Najas out.

garaman, you should not read too much into Galla..

Gaal is the somali for non-muslim and could very well have refered to all non-muslims somali speaking or Oromo speaking that the somali muslims lived next to.

Since galla is not used by oromo it must be a foriegn word.

BadrSomal wrote:Somalis are foreigners in Horn of Africa, I read somewhere that we came from North Africa (South Egypt?) when we came here we pushed all of the Oromo, Habesha, and Najas out.

A tribe of Egyptians migrated from upper Egypt to Somalia. They later became the paternal ancestors of most Somalis.

I think a tribe living in Ta-Seti (near Ancient Egypt) where the Beja live today were expelled by a Pharaoh and were forced to migrate to Pount near the Indian ocean (present day Somalia).

Traces of that migration are found in modern Beja. I hypothesize this is how Camels were introduced to Somalia.

very interesting myth

Source: wayeel.googlepages.com/Asalka.pdf

Cabdi Khayre Cawaale
"Ugu horeynta waxaan u soo gudbinayaa Soomaalida iyo Dunida inteeda kaleba in
Soomaalidu asalkeedu ka kooban yahay afar qowmiyadood, afartaas
qowmiyadoodna waxay ku midoobeen magaca Soomaaliyiin oo ay la wada baxeen.
Afartaasna waxaa la kala yiraahdaa:
1) SALAANIYIIN oo asalkoodu ka soo jeedo Masaarida, waxayna ka
kooban yihiin todobo qabiil oo waaweyn.
2) Qowmiyadda labaadna waxaa la yiraahdaa XADRA, waxayna ka soo
jeedaan Carabta Yemen.
3) Reer Haali waa qowmiyadda saddexaad asal ahaana waxay ka soo
jeedaan BORTOQIISKA.
4) jaaliyadda afaraad waxaa la yiraahdaa reer Jaaluu, waana BANTU,
waxayna ka soo jeedaan asal ahaan reer Tanzaniya.
Illaa maantana dadka degan dalka Soomaaliya waa qowmiyadahaas aan kor ku soo
sheegnay.
SALAMAANIYIINTU xilligii ay Masaarida aheyd waxaa la oran jiray Salmaaniyiin
Taariikhna waxaan u haynaa Xiligii Nabi Muuse (CS) ka horeeyey oo la oran jiray
Muuse ka hor, markaa iyada ah waxaa dalka Masar Boqor ka ahaa Boqor Juuli
Taariikhdaasna waxay ku magac dheertahay Taariikhdii Naasiriya.
Hadii aan idiin dulmarno Salmaaniyiinta sababtii keentay Geeska Afrika waxay
ahayd Dalka Masar oo sadexdii qowmiyadood ee daganayd dagaal ku dhexmaray,
waxaana Dagaalkaas meel ka soo wada jeestay labada qowmiyadood ee kala ahaa
Naasiriyiin iyo Cismaaniyiin oo isku bahaystay dagaalkii Salmaaniyiinta.
Muddo dheer kadibna waxaa Dalka Masar xoog looga saaray lana barakiciyey
Dadkii Salmaaniyiinta in badan oo kimid ah, waana kuwa aakhirkii soo degay
Geeska Afrika gaar ahaan Dhulkii udugga, markaa iyada ah Taariikhdu waxay ahayd
115- 121 Nabi Muuse(CS) ka hor, xiligii Boqor Qazaali, Masaaridii Masar ku hartay
ee barakici weyday waxay kala ahaayeen Naasiriyiin 30%, Cismaaniyiin 45%,
Salmaaniyiin 25% ilaa maanta waxay baaqi ku yiniin Masar.
Waxaan jeclahay inaan idiin soo gudbino todobaadkiiba maqaal xambaarsan
taariikhyo muhiima, lana socda akhristayaashow inaan rabno inaan idin barno kun
boqol iyo laba iyo toban (1112) Boqor ee ay soo mareen guud ahaan Masaarida iyo
Soomaalida oo wada jira ama kala jira.
Waxaa kaloo la xusi doonaa Dowlado badan oo taariikhdoodu facweyntahay iyo
Soomaaliyiin
Salaamiyiin"

All my shit just erased!

Let me try it again.

What are you talking about? Bro you make no sense. Somalis have gal and waaq in their tribe names because Somali is not only a Cushitic language but a neighbor of Oromos so linguistic transfusion is possible. If you look at old Somali poems, they sometimes refer to God as Waaq. So because French and Spanish call death "muerte", one is from the other?

So let me get this straight, Somalis have gal and waq in their tribe names only because living close to Oromos and gal and waq are basically loan words borrowed from the Oromo language.That still doesnt explain why Oromos dont have gal and waq in their tribe name as well. If that were true and Oromo did have thesed names in their tribal names then your stament might have some creditablity but there is none. Gal or galla does not equivlent to Oromo. There is enough evidence to believe that not only were Somalis waqists but also gadists.

Also, you make no reason for thinking "suffix" of "Ali" is from Galla, which Oromos do not call themselves and came to the linguistic use of the Horn of African people from the Somali word for infidel (gaal, Gallo plural) when Somalis embraced Islam.

Somalis did not invent the word Gal or galla, it has much more anicent origins.For me to think that the inventors of the galla term were Somalis, as you have stated, it would be just plain naive and inaccurate to believe such as thing. The suffix of "Ali" is the curroption of galla, that is the closest belief of the word.

Again, Somalis call themselves Somaalay and still do in classical literature. Somalia and Somali is a corruption of Soomaalay that the colonists just gave us and goes with the latin suffix of designating peoples and nationalities (-ia, ian, and i). Pakistani, Somali, Egyptian, Ethiopian,.

I think you have a hard time understading what i am saying, i have said Ali which is curropted galla, is a classification what foreigners have labeled peoples not necessarily what a person refers to his own ethinicity, in this case somalis. There are books when refering to Afar/Danakils refered them as "Danakalla" and other people ending with the suffix Ali/Galla, as well as the place Addagalla north of Dire dawa. The simple latin suffix counter arguement for reference of peoples is weak, when since latin inself derive influeneces from past languages.