Muslims for Progressive Values

[melo]

I have not misunderstood anything. The Prophet saws and his righteous successors set up states that were based on Islam law, and which outlawed homosexuality and blasphemy. The prophet saws is our model. Your suggestion that it is pipe dream indicates that you're defeated mentally. If you had the asked the Arab pagans about a 1 god religion controlling Makkah, they too would have questioned your mental state. And likewise, during the days of Fuedalism, had you suggested that liberalism would become the world ideology, you would be shunned for insanity. Systems rise and fall. The prophet saws prophesised the return of the Khalifa. Just because you can't see it now, does not mean it will not happen. Furthermore, to promote blasphemy under the guise of pragmatism is ridiculous.

[accident]

There must be equality for all people, regardless of the way they identify. This is a basic unalienable human right. I don’t understand this outrage?

I don't like midgets. I will not support you if you give midgets rights! They are spawn of the devil!

[melo]

There must be equality for all people, regardless of the way they identify or choose to live their lives. This is a basic unalienable human right. I don’t understand this outrage?

How do you reconcile this, with the clear prophetic command to kill homosexuals caught in the act union?

[union]

There must be equality for all people, regardless of the way they identify. This is a basic unalienable human right. I don’t understand this outrage?

I don't like midgets. I will not support you if you give midgets rights! They are spawn of the devil!

[1nemansquad]

Allah (swt) hates homosexuals so much so that he sent two Angeles to destroy the entire city of homosexuals by causing severe earth qauake and hail of rocks from skies.

There is no place for this progressive values nonsense in Islam

[accident]

There must be equality for all people, regardless of the way they identify. This is a basic unalienable human right. I don’t understand this outrage?

I don't like midgets. I will not support you if you give midgets rights! They are spawn of the devil!

UNION FOR PRESIDENT!

[Lamagoodle]

I have not misunderstood anything. The Prophet saws and his righteous successors set up states that were based on Islam law, and which outlawed homosexuality and blasphemy. The prophet saws is our model. Your suggestion that it is pipe dream indicates that you're defeated mentally. If you had the asked the Arab pagans about a 1 god religion controlling Makkah, they too would have questioned your mental state. And likewise, during the days of Fuedalism, had you suggested that liberalism would become the world ideology, you would be shunned for insanity. Systems rise and fall. The prophet saws prophesised the return of the Khalifa. Just because you can't see it now, does not mean it will not happen. Furthermore, to promote blasphemy under the guise of pragmatism is ridiculous.

Sheikh Melo;
Clearly, you are not getting my point. You are trying to equate faith with modes of societal governance. Islam is a faith and surely, it tells us about what we as people should do and describes the ideal kind of society. It is a merciful religion that is mainly based on promoting universal rights; you forgot perhaps that alot of what is termed as universal rights are actually islamic rights. Gender rights, race relations, the rights of children, the rights of religious minorities are all embedded in islam.

The universal rights outlined above is about tolerance and in my opionon that is the greatest thing about my kind of islam.

It is an intellectual flaw to equate islam with liberalism; the latter is a movement (made made) while the former is based on the words of the Almighty.

[union]

There must be equality for all people, regardless of the way they identify or choose to live their lives. This is a basic unalienable human right. I don’t understand this outrage?

How do you reconcile this, with the clear prophetic command to kill homosexuals caught in the act union?

MPV does not believe this to be a valid point nor one based in truth.

http://www.mpvusa.org/sexuality_in_islam.html

[union]

3. Separation of Religious and State Authorities: We believe that freedom of conscience is not only essential to all human societies but integral to the Qur'anic view of humanity. We believe that secular government is the only way to achieve the Islamic ideal of freedom from compulsion in matters of faith.

How one can believe in the Prophet Muhammad and promote this is unbelievable. Seriously, why don't they just come out in the open with their apostasy.

False Dichotomy

[Advo]

I read the title as Muslims for gaalo views

O'well I guess.

[BlackVelvet]

6. Women’s Rights: We support women’s agency and self-determination in every aspect of their lives. We believe in women’s full participation in society at every level. We affirm our commitment to reproductive justice and empowering women to make healthy decisions regarding their bodies, sexuality and reproduction.

Reproductive justice. Is that a way of saying they are pro abortion?

All this sounds like a people trying not to offend anyone by not being against anything. I see where they are coming from because more often than not it seems Muslims think they have to adhere to the harshest of punishments of the parameters prescribed by Islam to prove they are good Muslims even when more merciful ways of dealing with the problem can be found. However there is a line and I think these folk are becoming liberal extremists, what's wrong with maintaining a balance?

[melo]

Sheikh Melo;
Clearly, you are not getting my point. You are trying to equate faith with modes of societal governance

Islam as revealed to the prophet Muhammad does not seperate faith and modes of societal governance. The Quran and the Prophet's Sunnah are clear examples. The Quran and sunnah aren't simply moral guides, but have described how society should be governed.

Islam is a faith and surely, it tells us about what we as people should do and describes the ideal kind of society. It is a merciful religion that is mainly based on promoting universal rights; you forgot perhaps that alot of what is termed as universal rights are actually islamic rights. Gender rights, race relations, the rights of children, the rights of religious minorities are all embedded in islam

Yes you are correct, but it is Islam, not liberalism that defines equality. Take for example equality for Homosexuals. Islam clearly states that homosexuals who promote their sexual deviancy, or are caught in the act by X amount of witnesses are to be executed. Homosexual marriage is unrecognised in Islam as the entire sin is a cardinal sin. There is no equality in this instance, as Islam finds such actions abominable.

So again I ask, who defines equality and freedom? God or liberalism?

The universal rights outlined above is about tolerance and in my opionon that is the greatest thing about my kind of islam.

That is just absurd. The universal rights clearly contradict Islamic dictates. Tolerance is not based on your whims or desires, but on Islam. Islam defines what to tolerate and what not to tolerate. Homosexuality is intolerable. Freedom to curse the Prophet is intolerable. Yet according to progressive Muslims, all these rights are in the spirit of Islam

Your statement "my kind of Islam" is hilarious. There is no "my kind of Islam". Islam is defined by what is found in the Quran and Sunnah. These values you are pimping contradict them blatantly

False Dichotomy.

Union, don't be naive. It is known fact, even amongst western academics, that secularism goes against the core teachings of Islam. I mean, it isn't even debatable.

[union]

6. Women’s Rights: We support women’s agency and self-determination in every aspect of their lives. We believe in women’s full participation in society at every level. We affirm our commitment to reproductive justice and empowering women to make healthy decisions regarding their bodies, sexuality and reproduction.

Reproductive justice. Is that a way of saying they are pro abortion?

All this sounds like a people trying not to offend anyone by not being against anything. I see where they are coming from because more often than not it seems Muslims think they have to adhere to the harshest of punishments of the parameters prescribed by Islam to prove they are good Muslims even when more merciful ways of dealing with the problem can be found. However there is a line and I think these folk are becoming liberal extremists, what's wrong with maintaining a balance?

Declaring their support for universal human rights can hardly be considered “extremist” behavior. And what is this “balance” you are talking about? Should they mix evil and intolerance with liberal enlightened views? What sense would that make? I support an absolutist stance when it comes to the preservation of human rights and freedom of conscious, this should be an inflexible principle, perhaps even a dogma of the progressive Muslim movement.

[BlackVelvet]

Oh please let's not pretend. This is going far and beyond the human rights act. What you are saying is you want Islam to be Holland and then some. If a Muslim in the west decides to be gay or transgender or abort a baby then go for it and it's between you and your Lord but then saying that Islam as a religion and we as Muslims should accept, promote through accepting and failing to condemn, practising homosexuality, crossdressing, abortion etc is stepping too far.

A sin is a sin, if you are Muslim live by the rules of Islam repent when you sin but do go around trying to change it into something else.

A balanced approach would be to for example, to allow people of different faiths to live peacefully amongst Muslims in a Muslim country but to accept blasphemous, derogatory or insulting texts to be published is going too far, intellectual debates and discussions aside. Outlawing forced marriage and promoting the benefits of family planning is wonderful, making abortion legal is a step too far, health reasons aside. Trying to find ways of helping homosexuals deal with their issues instead of rushing to harsh punishment is balanced, making homosexuality an acceptable lifestyle in Islam is too much, no exceptions.

You see we have a religion already. You can't rewrite it to fit in with how society is today. If Allah said that he has perfected Islam for us then the least we can do is learn about it and the context of what it teaches. Instead there seems to be this acquired prejudiced notion of Western values being more progressive and we as Muslims have started to believe this political bullcrap.

[udun]

Subxaanallaah, these people want to change our deen where the evil practices of homosexuality, abortion, and any form of deviancies that exists in the west today are accepted.

It is clear these people are apostates who are outside of the boundaries of Islam; what we need to do is to find out who is behind and funding these groups. I remember watching CNN few days after September 11, 2001; and an Anglican Bishop stating "we need to liberalize Islam."

The attacks on Islam and Muslims have many fronts, and certainly this is one phase of the war against Islam. As it has been promised to us, all of these plots will fail. Every faithful should keep in mind we, Muslims, and our deen will triumph over all odds.