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RovingMadness wrote:The Southern States should be divided up. We have huge populations but not enough states. This should be corrected for Federalism to work

Sxb, the northern states will do the same and they have more land. What you should do is get a Central State in gobolada dhexe and make another state in Jubboyinka. Then you'll be on par and have back up from Raxanweyn and Biyomaal to override whatever decisions happen in the federal government.

We can inject population benchmark in the charter. The Northern States might have land, but it's not populated except few areas. In the South, there's a sea of humanity. It's not logical to play federalism based on land. Demographics should over-ride everything

Lets see what the Godfather of Federalism says about this. Remember every new state has to go through Garowe and get its approval there

RovingMadness wrote:We can inject population benchmark in the charter. The Northern States might have land, but it's not populated except few areas. In the South, there's a sea of humanity. It's not logical to play federalism based on land. Demographics should over-ride everything

Somalis don't wanna listen to 1 president, how will progress be made when you have 17 or 18?

Grift wrote:

RovingMadness wrote:Sxb, the northern states will do the same and they have more land. What you should do is get a Central State in gobolada dhexe and make another state in Jubboyinka. Then you'll be on par and have back up from Raxanweyn and Biyomaal to override whatever decisions happen in the federal government.

But the northern "states" have already been irreducibly divided. You can't sub-divide them any further. Hiiraan is the only gobol that has survived entact since the creation of Somali State. In othe words, Hiiraan, my ancestoral land, is due it division. It is unique therefore exempting it from any analogies with other gobols who are themselves the product of further divisions.

Colonel wrote:

RovingMadness wrote:We can inject population benchmark in the charter. The Northern States might have land, but it's not populated except few areas. In the South, there's a sea of humanity. It's not logical to play federalism based on land. Demographics should over-ride everything

Somalis don't wanna listen to 1 president, how will progress be made when you have 17 or 18?

That's not something that I should answer. If Federalism is legalized, then every region will position itself in a manner that's fitting of its political interests.

RovingMadness

That's what you aren't getting, it will be based on land, the amount of states one possessses. And in that regard they outnumber you way too much.

Starting from Bari down to Mudug (where they possess the capital). And then the south where they want to make a state in Jubboyinka. If a state is created there you are in trouble. What needs to happen is a solution needs to be made regarding Kismayo, and the central states need to make a minimum of 2 federal states.

Its not about how many states but rather letting people govern themselves without sharing power to stop murun later on

Grift wrote:RovingMadness

That's what you aren't getting, it will be based on land, the amount of states one possessses. And in that regard they outnumber you way too much.

Starting from Bari down to Mudug (where they possess the capital). And then the south where they want to make a state in Jubboyinka. If a state is created there you are in trouble. What needs to happen is a solution needs to be made regarding Kismayo, and the central states need to make a minimum of 2 federal states.

Don't worry about Kismayo it will be the capital of another Darood state inshallah. I don't understand why it's so difficult for Hawiyes to unite in central Somalia, having said that we have the same problem with jubaland/azania. One thing Isaaqs got right is that not every tribal leader wants to be the next president.

greenday wrote:Its not about how many states but rather letting people govern themselves without sharing power to stop murun later on

More presidents = more murun

Grift wrote:RovingMadness

That's what you aren't getting, it will be based on land, the amount of states one possessses. And in that regard they outnumber you way too much.

Starting from Bari down to Mudug (where they possess the capital). And then the south where they want to make a state in Jubboyinka. If a state is created there you are in trouble. What needs to happen is a solution needs to be made regarding Kismayo, and the central states need to make a minimum of 2 federal states.

No, I think you don't get it.

The charter is not a holy revelation that's incorruptible. It was made by humans & can be changed habitually to reflect the changes & reality on the ground. The land issue is being pursued by certain groups because it puts them in an advantage since they lack demographic weight. Therefore, there's no reason why we should play by their rules. In the United States, Wyoming State has much bigger land than New York State but politically in the Congress NY State has significantly much bigger weight than Wyoming because of demographic factors. 

The current 18 States was a creation of a communist clan regime & it structured the map in a way that's advantageous to a certain clan. If Federalism is implemented, we have no problems with it, since we stand to gain significantly from it. But, things will have to be moved & these bloated states in the South & Central Somalia will have to be broken up in order to make the political process reflective of the demographic reality in the country. That's why Hiiraan State is being 
partitioned as will be Galgaduud, & Shabelle Valley. It's both logical & conditional to the implementation of this federalism thing. 

Listen, they can do the exact same, what criteria do you have for splitting states that will be acceptable?

You: Bigger population?

They: Based on what census?

I'm telling you, you are going about it all wrong.

a powerful agricultural hiiraan state that is closer to banaadir state, using ceelmacaan port, friendly with ethiopia.
hiiraan is the second largest gobol in ex somalia and should be divided though in reality its not divided. evry district is dominated by one clan except matabaan.

Grift wrote:Listen, they can do the exact same, what criteria do you have for splitting states that will be acceptable?

You: Bigger population?

They: Based on what census?

I'm telling you, you are going about it all wrong.

Somalia is going to be a democratic federal state. In democracy demographics trump everything else

this isnt going to end well let see how it turns out.