Somalia has no future as a state.

[The`Republic]

Guys, Somaliland is not a huge issue addressed in my topic. I included it because in ny estimation Somaliland's tribal culture is not different at all then all Somalis. Somaliland is the place where just a month ago a tribe burned a part of Burfo because the government happened to demote an army officer of their clan or something. The reality is the only thing sustaining unity is the shared overwhelming and primary focus on attaining independence from Somalia. Once that has been achieved, that MAIN focus for toeing the line and they are left to each other, the focus will also descend lower and the factors will only include Isaaq clans.

Somebody mentioned the adage "my country and I against the world, my clan and I against the country, my sub-clan and I against the clan, my family and I against the sub-clan, my brothers and I against our cousins, I against my brother".

Everytime the focus narrows, new battle lines are drown and that is the reality.

It is a very anarchic and schizophrenic cultural system formed by parasitic dependence on the harsh desert by nomadic pastoralist Somalis.

There has never been a cultural transformation to accept a unitary state.

If you look at comparable tribes for instance like the Germans, their evolution took a thousand years where brutal wars of domination and control has been successfully waged by one tribe over others and where victorious tribal leaders built feudal states with alliances from other tribesband enjoined a nobility system which replaced tribal culture. Each member of the nobility through brutal control, intermarriage, and resource sharing became interdependent on the continued existence of the system.

We have never had that natural evolution and much more than other tribal systems, our system is really a pre-agricultural revolution throwback to how th world worked in antiquity.

Honestly, I am very pessimistic about the future viability of a Somali state.

Somebody mentioned the Islamists and I cannot help but objectively see the Islamists as the ONLY group who can trump the Somali tribal system...even while using it to cement alliances, are the only group to make it subservient to their ideology driven moment.

It is very remarkable how even in many of the evolutions of former tribes were done through religion. For example, even the first thing to cement the transformation of German tribes to a nation statewas done by the Holy Roman Emporer and the entire ffoundation of European nobility/nation state was achieved with political Christianity as the major glue. Obviously after the tribes have already been brutally made to accept the nation did individuals without a concept of former tribal identity then lead it to enlightenment through a desire to improve the only system they knew and accepted by that...the nation state and not tribe.

We are fooling ourselves and the world. The only way Somalia can become a nation is of all foreigners leave and dominant victors arise within Somalia that can control. Everything else are just symptoms and you will see.

[original dervish]

The problem has always been the southerners.
Look at most other regions with less population and resources....they're thriving.
The south has been overtaking by a mafia network....this is what has kept them in turmoil for twenty plus years.

watch how J/Land will flourish, insha'llah, now the mafia network has been removed from the region.

[KingWaslawi]

Wanlaweyn iyo Reer koonfur waxaad moodaa caqligu inuu futada kaga jiro. Waar Somaliland afkiina ka dhawra oo aayihiina ka tashada. Mid ka mid ah waxyaabaha aad la degi waydeen ayaa ah xaasidnimo, sababtoo ah qof aan walaalkii wanaagiisa iyo horumarka u gaadhay xaasidnimo uun la daba taagan ilama aha inuu meel ku gaadhaayo.

Iska ilaawa Somaliland iyo shacabkeeda oo waxba ha kusoo xoq-xoqanina.

[sahal80]

I don't share this old opinion wich is far from reality, there is no more tribalism in xamar!

Our social priority is totally different than fighting tribalism, its about eliminating the islamic extremism!

Its a war between the ideologies; Ikhwan vs al jihad not USC VS USC

This week a puntlander islamist minister was visiting xamar to upgrad the ties between his region and the govt and to cooperate on the education sector !

this shows how much the somali politics are changing with more islamists sharing the power in every region

Some want to bring back tribalism through their wrong version of federalism but have finally failed on this issue and we see now the central govt having control of every little thing

Just like the french revolution the social and political change will witness a long terrorism era

Because of this terror wich also targets the global interests, mogadishu will receive the global support for having common challenges

In other words, like djibouti and the gulf states, the somali state will be protected by the west, it will become a global ally.

American, italian and german militrary trainers have arrived/are arriving

Japan keeps equiping the police

Al shabaab is just a social phenomenon that will disappear like it did in algeria

Only if the people had 3 peaceful years, enjoy the sun and the sea, the terror ideology will disappear from xamar and people will get used to the change

Since somalia depends on how is mogadishu or only mogadishu matters I won't mention other factors!

Mogadishu is a place with a political diversity where all the somali clans are part of its institutions, this has created a lot of obstacles in the past but now we see that we are getting used to eachother.

[Even123]

Guys, Somaliland is not a huge issue addressed in my topic. I included it because in ny estimation Somaliland's tribal culture is not different at all then all Somalis. Somaliland is the place where just a month ago a tribe burned a part of Burfo because the government happened to demote an army officer of their clan or something. The reality is the only thing sustaining unity is the shared overwhelming and primary focus on attaining independence from Somalia. Once that has been achieved, that MAIN focus for toeing the line and they are left to each other, the focus will also descend lower and the factors will only include Isaaq clans.

Somebody mentioned the adage "my country and I against the world, my clan and I against the country, my sub-clan and I against the clan, my family and I against the sub-clan, my brothers and I against our cousins, I against my brother".

Everytime the focus narrows, new battle lines are drown and that is the reality.

It is a very anarchic and schizophrenic cultural system formed by parasitic dependence on the harsh desert by nomadic pastoralist Somalis.

There has never been a cultural transformation to accept a unitary state.

If you look at comparable tribes for instance like the Germans, their evolution took a thousand years where brutal wars of domination and control has been successfully waged by one tribe over others and where victorious tribal leaders built feudal states with alliances from other tribesband enjoined a nobility system which replaced tribal culture. Each member of the nobility through brutal control, intermarriage, and resource sharing became interdependent on the continued existence of the system.

We have never had that natural evolution and much more than other tribal systems, our system is really a pre-agricultural revolution throwback to how th world worked in antiquity.

Honestly, I am very pessimistic about the future viability of a Somali state.

Somebody mentioned the Islamists and I cannot help but objectively see the Islamists as the ONLY group who can trump the Somali tribal system...even while using it to cement alliances, are the only group to make it subservient to their ideology driven moment.

It is very remarkable how even in many of the evolutions of former tribes were done through religion. For example, even the first thing to cement the transformation of German tribes to a nation statewas done by the Holy Roman Emporer and the entire ffoundation of European nobility/nation state was achieved with political Christianity as the major glue. Obviously after the tribes have already been brutally made to accept the nation did individuals without a concept of former tribal identity then lead it to enlightenment through a desire to improve the only system they knew and accepted by that...the nation state and not tribe.

We are fooling ourselves and the world. The only way Somalia can become a nation is of all foreigners leave and dominant victors arise within Somalia that can control. Everything else are just symptoms and you will see.

your right if the foreigners never had meddled with our domestic affair, the civil war would have ended long time ago, with dominant victor (succeeded TWICE, but intervened by foreigners) being HG, HG first try was under HG Sacad Caydeed ruling Kismayo to Bari but failed when Ethiopia and USA invaded, and second time by HG CEYR under Dahir aweys during islamist era but again failed because of again by USA and Ethiopia invasion.

[zidane88]

Living in the comfort of western democracy and preaching oppression and dictatorship.... when will we ever learn?.

[original dervish]

Federalism is the only game in town.
The foreigners are here to stay.
Somali's can't be trusted to live like any other shitty backward African hell hole.

[hargaysaay]

Why dont we just raise money and start building something back-home with what we have got , considering the circumstances I know it sounds naive but honestly I find
it more productive then this endless analysis of senseless theories on how we can stand on our feet again .

[sahal80]

The traditional political factors have disappeared in the south and may effect on the tribal north

We had al itihad and then the ikhwans-al shaykh and dam jadid-

4 Out of the 5 top presidential candidates of the last elections were representing the political islam-hassan sheekh, sh sharif, badiyow and osoble, only abdi wali gaas was the non islamist in this race the rest have disappeared quickly for not being well-staffed and not having continental connections-

The more religious clans had this era more influence on the somali politics

Raskamboni power in kismayo was based on hassan turki who is the father in-law of ahmed madobe.

You have decision makers like farah abdulqadir who hails from minority

This cabinet has more islamists than ever!

If more islamists reach/share the power in other regions they will get closer.

[SecretAgent]

Wat if sayid barre accepted italian asylum 1989 ?
Wat if somaliland was recognzise 1991
Wat if hawiyes never fought usa 1993
wat if islamist killed abdiallahi yusuf in bari 1992
Wat if aideed didnt die 1996
Wat if un ic supported tng govt 1999-2003
Wat if icu controled south somalia with out extremist
How would somalia look like peaceful ???

[Meyle]

Wat if sayid barre accepted italian asylum 1989 ?
Wat if somaliland was recognzise 1991
Wat if hawiyes never fought usa 1993
wat if islamist killed abdiallahi yusuf in bari 1992
Wat if aideed didnt die 1996
Wat if un ic supported tng govt 1999-2003
Wat if icu controled south somalia with out extremist
How would somalia look like peaceful ???

So many unanswered questions

[Tanker]

how can anyone take this guy seriously? he is one of the most hardcore tribalists on somalinet and will even support the devil if he was Marehan and yet is he is complaining about how tribalism destroyed Somalia

[FarhanYare]

Guys, Somaliland is not a huge issue addressed in my topic. I included it because in ny estimation Somaliland's tribal culture is not different at all then all Somalis. Somaliland is the place where just a month ago a tribe burned a part of Burfo because the government happened to demote an army officer of their clan or something. The reality is the only thing sustaining unity is the shared overwhelming and primary focus on attaining independence from Somalia. Once that has been achieved, that MAIN focus for toeing the line and they are left to each other, the focus will also descend lower and the factors will only include Isaaq clans.

Somebody mentioned the adage "my country and I against the world, my clan and I against the country, my sub-clan and I against the clan, my family and I against the sub-clan, my brothers and I against our cousins, I against my brother".

Everytime the focus narrows, new battle lines are drown and that is the reality.

It is a very anarchic and schizophrenic cultural system formed by parasitic dependence on the harsh desert by nomadic pastoralist Somalis.

There has never been a cultural transformation to accept a unitary state.

If you look at comparable tribes for instance like the Germans, their evolution took a thousand years where brutal wars of domination and control has been successfully waged by one tribe over others and where victorious tribal leaders built feudal states with alliances from other tribesband enjoined a nobility system which replaced tribal culture. Each member of the nobility through brutal control, intermarriage, and resource sharing became interdependent on the continued existence of the system.

We have never had that natural evolution and much more than other tribal systems, our system is really a pre-agricultural revolution throwback to how th world worked in antiquity.

Honestly, I am very pessimistic about the future viability of a Somali state.

Somebody mentioned the Islamists and I cannot help but objectively see the Islamists as the ONLY group who can trump the Somali tribal system...even while using it to cement alliances, are the only group to make it subservient to their ideology driven moment.

It is very remarkable how even in many of the evolutions of former tribes were done through religion. For example, even the first thing to cement the transformation of German tribes to a nation statewas done by the Holy Roman Emporer and the entire ffoundation of European nobility/nation state was achieved with political Christianity as the major glue. Obviously after the tribes have already been brutally made to accept the nation did individuals without a concept of former tribal identity then lead it to enlightenment through a desire to improve the only system they knew and accepted by that...the nation state and not tribe.

We are fooling ourselves and the world. The only way Somalia can become a nation is of all foreigners leave and dominant victors arise within Somalia that can control. Everything else are just symptoms and you will see.

your right if the foreigners never had meddled with our domestic affair, the civil war would have ended long time ago, with dominant victor (succeeded TWICE, but intervened by foreigners) being HG, HG first try was under HG Sacad Caydeed ruling Kismayo to Bari but failed when Ethiopia and USA invaded, and second time by HG CEYR under Dahir aweys during islamist era but again failed because of again by USA and Ethiopia invasion.

[SimplySerene]

Guys, Somaliland is not a huge issue addressed in my topic. I included it because in ny estimation Somaliland's tribal culture is not different at all then all Somalis.

Really? based on what I have learned there is a tribal cultural difference between Somaliland and Somalila. I thought The tribal structure & cultural is weaker with the people from Somalia. Somaliland has used a tribal system to keep Somaliland together. It seems to have its advantages and disadvantages. Can you really say you don't see a difference especially here on snet after all the years you have been here.I would even say Somalilanders are even more open about discussing tribal stuff. I don't know just my observation.

Somaliland is the place where just a month ago a tribe burned a part of Burfo because the government happened to demote an army officer of their clan or something. The reality is the only thing sustaining unity is the shared overwhelming and primary focus on attaining independence from Somalia. Once that has been achieved, that MAIN focus for toeing the line and they are left to each other, the focus will also descend lower and the factors will only include Isaaq clans.

You are assuming that is the only thing holding Somaliland together. I can think of a couple things currently holding it together, and what might help it later.
1)The tribal system, for the time being
2)People fear war and chaos, and only have to look at Somalia and their own history as a reminder

Hopefully the growth of education and government will continue to help
Just my 2 cents

[Meyle]

SimplySerene,


We left the tribal system long time ago. When we declared independence in 91, we invited all the other clans and developed a road map, 2 years later during the Borama conference we decided that we would adopt a tribal system for 3 years and after that we would implement democracy and the concept of one man, one vote. To this day, we're the only democracy in the Horn of Africa. What's holding Somaliland together is bigger than international recognition, it's bigger than fear of war and chaos. Our people are collectivists by nature and they know that the greater good of our country and its inhabitants comes before individual interests. That's whats keeping Somaliland together. We could've easily wiped out the clans that were on Afweynes side during the 80's but we didn't because Isaaqu waa gob, we're forgiving, dulmigana ma jeclin. Isaaq are also the majority in Somaliland, around 70% and therefore the only way Somaliland will cease to exist is by Isaaq destroying Somaliland.


On the other hand Somalis from Somalia are individualists by nature. It's all about interests and they use clan as a tool to achieve their goals, mainly political goals even Amisom is used. They don't care about minorities, women & children etc.


We made a terrible mistake in 1960 but today we're on our way.