SomaliNet Forums

But what does the Quran say about the origins of man? Most Muslims believe in creationism, in that Allah has created us.

I totally agree with you, we share a lot with Monkey. I saw that at a documentary i watched a few yrs back.

Around 100,000 years ago something happened to humans. Their brain power increased rapidly and they started using more advanced tools and conquering more of the world.

Perhaps around that time God intervened with evolution and created Adam out of that pool of early homonids. Incidentally, the oldest male lineage haplogroup A is also from around that time (~100K years ago).

Skippa wrote:if these ancestors were not muslim, (btw, Islam did not start 1400 + years ago) they were jaahiliin and their beliefs do not matter (except in an academic setting)

Yes they only matter in academic setting and no one is suggesting we start believing in their religions but what good is academics and history when it's filled disrespect and shaming? The things you people circulate around the internet makes someone ashamed and think the history isn't worth studying.

why can't we just say "Even though they were wrong and were in darkness, I respect and acknowledge their beliefs and culture." That is way better than calling them names and discouraging looking deep into their beliefs because it's just 'some Jahiliya bullshit'.

Remember that knowledge is important and is a big part of Islam.

jalaaludin5 wrote:

5. What went wrong? When, where and how?

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sxbow you misunderstood me. I was trying to get across a different point than that. guess I didn't write this well

Only thing I respect is the rooxaan. Rooxaanta don't play

inaXasan wrote:

jalaaludin5 wrote:

5. What went wrong? When, where and how?

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sxbow you misunderstood me. I was trying to get across a different point than that. guess I didn't write this well

From the get go I could tell you were struggling to put a message across, that left too much room for many different interpretation.

Hating our ancestors doesn't even come into it. And Somali before Islam is something I never heard people discussing the subject in a negative manner and belittle or insult them because they "weren't muslim".

All the fights and most discussions on this boards revolve around qabiil/qabyaalad. And qabyaalad is about....'my ancestors were bader than your ancestors'. So that's that.

There are lots of people in here who claim/pretend they are all for SOMALINIMO and they are proud of their heritage and cultures but 9 times out of 10 thry are the biggest qabiilist. Some like to hide behind the "Soomali baan ahay" slogan with their own poisonous and transparent agenda. They like to create a setting were "somali and somalinimo" is discussed, but imention Islam and remind them of somali been muslim.....and you are a selfhater!

In a nutshell, its good to know about your history. I see absolutely no reason why should the waq-worshiping-ancestors should be made into an issue or used as a pretext.

There is no such thing as Arabization....but there are ...Atheist/agnostic/confused/Islam-hating qabiilist who love to run around with insincere Somalinimo.
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jalaaludin5 wrote:

inaXasan wrote:

jalaaludin5 wrote:

5. What went wrong? When, where and how?

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sxbow you misunderstood me. I was trying to get across a different point than that. guess I didn't write this well

From the get go I could tell you were struggling to put a message across, that left too much room for many different interpretation.

Hating our ancestors doesn't even come into it. And Somali before Islam is something I never heard people discussing the subject in a negative manner and belittle or insult them because they "weren't muslim".

All the fights and most discussions on this boards revolve around qabiil/qabyaalad. And qabyaalad is about....'my ancestors were bader than your ancestors'. So that's that.

There are lots of people in here who claim/pretend they are all for SOMALINIMO and they are proud of their heritage and cultures but 9 times out of 10 thry are the biggest qabiilist. Some like to hide behind the "Soomali baan ahay" slogan with their own poisonous and transparent agenda. They like to create a setting were "somali and somalinimo" is discussed, but imention Islam and remind them of somali been muslim.....and you are a selfhater!

In a nutshell, its good to know about your history. I see absolutely no reason why should the waq-worshiping-ancestors should be made into an issue or used as a pretext.

There is no such thing as Arabization....but there are ...Atheist/agnostic/confused/Islam-hating qabiilist who love to run around with insincere Somalinimo.
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You think these cow worshipping pagan Somalis are something to be proud of?

Thank Allah we received Islam from the early Arabs, and the path to jannah.

The only way Somalis can find long lasting peace is if they embrace and dig out the past. The problem is Somalis removed their roots and want to stand in the middle of no where with 'Somali Mohamed' and 'Sheikh fathers'.

The Sheikh fathers then leads to Sheikh X's imaginary kids Vs Sheikh Y's imaginary kids for example Sheikh Jeberti and his imaginary Darood kids Vs Sheikh Isaxaaq and his imaginary Isaaq kids.

If Somalis embraced the truth, which is past common father and Waaq belief before they were converted by Arab Sheikhs, they would not have 80% of the tribal hatred. They do see themselves as one common people who once lived peacefully under Waaq.

Be Muslims but know the truth.

Just as Arabs converted elsewhere in the region and beyond, they mass converted the nomads and launched them as satellite troopers.

After all those years they got symbolic entry to Arab League.

What a disaster.

Hyperactive wrote:

jalaaludin5 wrote:I see couple of topics compressed into one.

You make a topic about..

1. Waaq, our ancient God,( and the way of our ancestors before Islam)

2. Islam, our converted forfathers and the spiritual transition from Waaq to Allah.

3. The brave nomads of yesterday and the cultured geeljire of the 21st century.

4. The Arabization (real or imagined) of the Somali people.

5. What went wrong? When, where and how?
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hmm i just wish people just be transparent and tell us their opinions and believes before they beat around the bush.

Baroortu Orgiga Ka Weyn!

To the OP, from a religious perspective, we have no history to be proud of before Islam came to the Horn of Africa, for the simple fact that those ancestors were pagans, buried young girls alive for simple fact that they were girls, and drunk blood from different animals.

As for 'Arabization' that you referred here, even in those pagan days, some of the deities people in the Horn of Africa used to believe had its origins in Arabia and in the larger Middle East. For instance, have you ever seen a Somali woman named Hubaal? Did it ever occur to you what that name refers to? Not only this, but what about Newroz (Neyruush in Somali) that we practiced until recently?

Well, first, to break a news to you, Hubal was one of the Gods that Arabs worshiped before Islam came to Arabia and to the world. For us (Muslims), we have this incident that is narrated in Ṣaḥīh of al-Bukhari after the Battle of Uhud:

Abu Sufyan ascended a high place and said, "Is Muhammad present amongst the people?" The Prophet said, "Do not answer him." Abu Sufyan said, "Is the son of Abu Quhafa present among the people?" The Prophet said, "Do not answer him." Abu Sufyan said, "Is the son of Al-Khattab amongst the people?" He then added, "All these people have been killed, for, were they alive, they would have replied." On that, 'Umar could not help saying, "You are a liar, O enemy of Allah! Allah has kept what will make you unhappy." Abu Sufyan said, "Superior may be Hubal!" On that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah) said (to his companions), "Reply to him." They asked, "What may we say?" He said, "Say: Allah is More Elevated and More Majestic!" Abu Sufyan said, "We have (the idol) al-‘Uzza, whereas you have no ‘Uzza!" The Prophet said (to his companions), "Reply to him." They said, "What may we say?" The Prophet said, "Say: Allah is our Helper and you have no helper."

Well, the Hubal name given to some of our women has its origins in that deity that was once worshiped in Arabia before Islam came and changed the world for good!

Second, the Newroz festival, which Somali used to say until recently "shuushoow bax, sharow guur" while throwing small rocks (which represent evil spirits) into fire and circle around it at the beginning of the rainy gu' season, has its origins in the Middle East and was instituted when the Mesopotamian empire was at its prime and was ruling the world.

The women in bright coloured sequined dresses sang love songs and the men replied as they all moved around the flames as one. Some of the youngsters hovered over the flute, drunk with the sound of the music, their arms outstretched like eagles soaring the skies. Now they were free. To this day, on the same Spring day every year, March 21st, (which is also Spring Equinox) Kurdish, Persian, Afghan and other people of the Middle East dance and leap through fires to remember Kawa and how he freed his people from tyranny and oppression and to celebrate the coming of the New Year. This day is called Newroz or New Day. It is one of the few ‘peoples
celebrations’ that has survived and predates all the major religious festivals. Although celebrated by others, it is especially important for the Kurds as it is also the start of the Kurdish calendar and celebrates the Kurds own long struggle for freedom.

Source: http://www.kurdishinstitute.be/kawa-and ... of-newroz/

Bottom line, the so-called 'going back to our ancestors and their way of life' does not necessarily mean that everything Somalis used to do were unique to the Horn of Africa. Reality is, the same way we're influenced today by events and changes occurring in the world, our ancestors were also influenced by similar changes occurring in their time, and some, if not many, of the religions and deities Somalis worshiped had their origins in other lands, particularly, in the Middle East. Luckily enough, Islam spread in the Horn of Africa voluntarily and it was the Somalis who chose Islam over the paganism!!

Give it up, guys; we aint going back to that pagan savagery that has been practiced in the past.

@grandpakhalif

Your toxic mindset is something else .

@gegiroor

> The Arabs used to bury their girls not Somali. Your ignorance on this matter is overwhelming.

> we were influenced by Kush not the Middle east. If you consider ancient Sudan and Egypt as part of the Middle East maybe you are right

Also, no one said start becoming pagans. Respect and acknowledgement is enough tribute to the people that literally brought you to this world.

Once they attack you with the charge "ignorance," you know they are out of ammunition and have no facts to dispute you.

@InaXasan, the paganism that was practiced in the Horn of Africa and the one practiced in the Middle East before the advent of Islam was the same. While Arabs called Hubal, in the Horn of Africa, it was called Waaq.

Additionally, burying girls while in fact was practiced in the Horn of Africa in the past but it was stopped at some point. Somalis has a saying, "Hadal iyo gabdhoba iyagoo aan la jeclayn bay bataan." Why the Somalis hated having daughters, as that proverb explains, if such practices were not in place or not practiced at some point? The culture of families not wanted to have daughters were very common in the Middle East and in the Horn of Africa before the advent of Islam. You can dance around it all you want, but it was practiced in the Somali territories at some point.

grandpakhalif wrote:

You think these cow worshipping pagan Somalis are something to be proud of?

Thank Allah we received Islam from the early Arabs, and the path to jannah.

Waaq and the Abrahamic God are the same guy. They stem from the proto-AfroAsiatic primary deity.

Jews and Arabs got their culture from Egyptian Red Sea dwelling Bedouins who were related to Cushites.

@gerigoor

It is undeniable fact that the Arabs used to do this barbaric act. It is even mentioned in the Qurân but it has no trace in Somali history. One local quote doesn't mean shit unless there are other quotes out there from different regions.

I don't know if they did such disgusting rituals but I know that we definitely don't know if they were as backward and vile as Quraishi Arabs or if they were more ahead and had better Social systems.

It is better if we just accept that our ancient history is unkown to us because we did such a great job at forgetting it.

jalaaludin5 wrote:
sxbow you misunderstood me. I was trying to get across a different point than that. guess I didn't write this well

From the get go I could tell you were struggling to put a message across, that left too much room for many different interpretation.

Hating our ancestors doesn't even come into it. And Somali before Islam is something I never heard people discussing the subject in a negative manner and belittle or insult them because they "weren't muslim".

All the fights and most discussions on this boards revolve around qabiil/qabyaalad. And qabyaalad is about....'my ancestors were bader than your ancestors'. So that's that.

There are lots of people in here who claim/pretend they are all for SOMALINIMO and they are proud of their heritage and cultures but 9 times out of 10 thry are the biggest qabiilist. Some like to hide behind the "Soomali baan ahay" slogan with their own poisonous and transparent agenda. They like to create a setting were "somali and somalinimo" is discussed, but imention Islam and remind them of somali been muslim.....and you are a selfhater!

In a nutshell, its good to know about your history. I see absolutely no reason why should the waq-worshiping-ancestors should be made into an issue or used as a pretext.

There is no such thing as Arabization....but there are ...Atheist/agnostic/confused/Islam-hating qabiilist who love to run around with insincere Somalinimo.

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What brother B. said