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Can list all of your Snet accounts?

Clan system is almost the same as tribe system just in a larger form and brother don't ask a somali from diaspora about clan system they tend to use it the most, but to deny it origins also as well hypocrites are hypocrites

I love harari girls bless all my muslimiin women so beautiful mansha alla

The clan system is a misnomer, by clan people mean qabiil, which is an Arabic loanword meaning nation, and there are basically 5 qabiil: Dir, Hawiye, Daarood, Digil-Mirifle and Isaaq. Qabiil is a largely abstract idea of common ancestry, and most of the time has no or very little bearing on immediate politics or war. A Qabiil is more like an ethnicity than an alliance, like being French or German or something. Since the 20th century there has been an attempt to create a Somali nationalism called Somalinimo, but this is like the 21st century effort to create a European identity for the European Union. Somalinimo is even more abstract than Qabiil and although Somali people have made enormous sacrifices it remains a weak force.

The actual clans (meaning political alliances) are the Tol. This is the basis of Somali society for thousands of years. Tol means stitched or tied together and what ties a Tol together is Xeer or traditional customary laws. A Tol has their own king or Oday who is the arbiter of Xeer for the community and spiritual leader. In the old days they were also the military and political leader as well, but Oday don't really lead forces on the battlefield anymore. Your Tol protects you, and you fight for your Tol, every adult male is expected to help the Tol materially, militarily or financially. The Tol form and arm armies ("clan militias"), help their fellows start businesses or immigrate, defend and protect them and their businesses. It's like a combination extended family, militia and business improvement association, with a king. Tol meet all the time to discuss issues relevant to the community at Shir (conferences) or Shirweyn (great conferences, a Shirweyn might have the entire Tol attending via video conference or through representatives). In the old days this happened under Acacia trees, but nowadays that's been replaced with convention centers with powerpoint presentations.

So for instance the Iimaam of Hiraab is Oday of Abgaal, so think of Abgaal as a kingdom and he's the leader. He is the ceremonial king of all of Hiraab so think of it as a commonwealth of countries like the UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. Hiraab has lots of Tol: Abgaal, Wacdaan, Mobleen, Ujajeen, Sacad, Cayr, Saleebaan, Saruur, Duduble, and Sheekhaal. All these Tol are Hawiye, even though Sheekhaal are genealogically Harari rather than Hawiye. The Hiraab group of Tol have been plagued with infighting, and have been split since the early 1990s between the two most powerful sons of Hiraab; Madarkicis (better known as Habar Gidir containing Sacad, Cayr, Saleebaan and Saruur) and Mudulood (containing Abgaal, Wacdaan, Mobleen and Ujajeen). This split is still going strong and the Tol of Habar Gidir have had more success with forming a state with Mareexaan and Qubeeys (a Daarood and Dir Tol respectively) than with Mudulood.

It is incorrect to say that Somalia is an anarchy with no government. The truth is that after the central government fell apart things essentially reverted to the Tol. The struggle is and has always been reaching past one's Tol and having a stable state or government containing multiple Tol. When multiple Tol form a state together it's not a matter of different groups of people coming together to form a government, because there already is a government, the Tol. Forming a state therefore means a complicated power sharing agreement to form a federation of those Tol, where the Tol is sacrificing some of their agency and authority for the betterment of their members, but the Tol remains there and the shaky union could break apart back into the component Tol at any point.

Tol are dynamic and can themselves break up. At one time Hiraab was a Tol, but after conquering the Ajuuraan Empire the Hiraab grew very big and families within Hiraab grew powerful enough to stand on their own, so they did, and formed their own Tol. Majerteen is a Tol that is on the verge of splitting up into 3 Tol and might do so one day, as the Cumar Maxamuud, Cismaan Maxamuud and Ciise Maxamuud are all strong enough to be their own Tol. Many very small clans are clients of Tol and eventually get adopted into the Tol through Sheegad.

Anyways I could go on forever, people have written books on this subject <_<

James Dahl isn't that the person who makes those somalia's political maps on Wikipedia

I used to but nowadays someone else updates the map, it became too much work

Dahl
at the end of the day,somali is somali this clan thing is not that important especially to the diaspora and educated folks.it is only backward illiterates who dwell on it.i have never been asked my clan.

Ok lol i was wondering why those maps havent been updated in a while and yes for the majority of somali people clan identity is there ethnicity

[quote="LiquidHYDROGEN"][quote="Hararboy"][img]http://i.imgur.com/0tGOeXU.jpg[/img]I'm part somali and I'm also an Hadere so I ain't a habesha.

As I understand the somali civil war was at the root a clan war and Somalis problem go back to the clan system. How old is the clan system and why did it start? Are there cultural or genetic differences between clans?[/quote]

Isaaq descend from Aladdin and his magic flying carpet in Baghdad.
Darood descend from Ali baba and the 40 shoe-thieves.
Hawiye descend from Jomo Kenyatta
and the rest are all oromos.

[/quote]

I'd rather be a descendant of Jomo Kenyatta than some nasty, smelly, hairy Arab. I feel bad for you I really do. You're a slave to your Arab masters, masters who haven't won a war against anyone since the crusades. And even then, their leader wasn't even an Arab but a Kurd. Lol

James Dahl wrote:The clan system is a misnomer, by clan people mean qabiil, which is an Arabic loanword meaning nation, and there are basically 5 qabiil: Dir, Hawiye, Daarood, Digil-Mirifle and Isaaq. Qabiil is a largely abstract idea of common ancestry, and most of the time has no or very little bearing on immediate politics or war. A Qabiil is more like an ethnicity than an alliance, like being French or German or something. Since the 20th century there has been an attempt to create a Somali nationalism called Somalinimo, but this is like the 21st century effort to create a European identity for the European Union. Somalinimo is even more abstract than Qabiil and although Somali people have made enormous sacrifices it remains a weak force.

The actual clans (meaning political alliances) are the Tol. This is the basis of Somali society for thousands of years. Tol means stitched or tied together and what ties a Tol together is Xeer or traditional customary laws. A Tol has their own king or Oday who is the arbiter of Xeer for the community and spiritual leader. In the old days they were also the military and political leader as well, but Oday don't really lead forces on the battlefield anymore. Your Tol protects you, and you fight for your Tol, every adult male is expected to help the Tol materially, militarily or financially. The Tol form and arm armies ("clan militias"), help their fellows start businesses or immigrate, defend and protect them and their businesses. It's like a combination extended family, militia and business improvement association, with a king. Tol meet all the time to discuss issues relevant to the community at Shir (conferences) or Shirweyn (great conferences, a Shirweyn might have the entire Tol attending via video conference or through representatives). In the old days this happened under Acacia trees, but nowadays that's been replaced with convention centers with powerpoint presentations.

So for instance the Iimaam of Hiraab is Oday of Abgaal, so think of Abgaal as a kingdom and he's the leader. He is the ceremonial king of all of Hiraab so think of it as a commonwealth of countries like the UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. Hiraab has lots of Tol: Abgaal, Wacdaan, Mobleen, Ujajeen, Sacad, Cayr, Saleebaan, Saruur, Duduble, and Sheekhaal. All these Tol are Hawiye, even though Sheekhaal are genealogically Harari rather than Hawiye. The Hiraab group of Tol have been plagued with infighting, and have been split since the early 1990s between the two most powerful sons of Hiraab; Madarkicis (better known as Habar Gidir containing Sacad, Cayr, Saleebaan and Saruur) and Mudulood (containing Abgaal, Wacdaan, Mobleen and Ujajeen). This split is still going strong and the Tol of Habar Gidir have had more success with forming a state with Mareexaan and Qubeeys (a Daarood and Dir Tol respectively) than with Mudulood.

It is incorrect to say that Somalia is an anarchy with no government. The truth is that after the central government fell apart things essentially reverted to the Tol. The struggle is and has always been reaching past one's Tol and having a stable state or government containing multiple Tol. When multiple Tol form a state together it's not a matter of different groups of people coming together to form a government, because there already is a government, the Tol. Forming a state therefore means a complicated power sharing agreement to form a federation of those Tol, where the Tol is sacrificing some of their agency and authority for the betterment of their members, but the Tol remains there and the shaky union could break apart back into the component Tol at any point.

Tol are dynamic and can themselves break up. At one time Hiraab was a Tol, but after conquering the Ajuuraan Empire the Hiraab grew very big and families within Hiraab grew powerful enough to stand on their own, so they did, and formed their own Tol. Majerteen is a Tol that is on the verge of splitting up into 3 Tol and might do so one day, as the Cumar Maxamuud, Cismaan Maxamuud and Ciise Maxamuud are all strong enough to be their own Tol. Many very small clans are clients of Tol and eventually get adopted into the Tol through Sheegad.

Anyways I could go on forever, people have written books on this subject <_<

I wish all posts were like this. Informative and relevant to the OP.

What books are you referring to James or anyone that knows. I would love to have a look-see.

Well the one most people reference is I.M. Lewis' book, but to be honest it's a bit crap

Isaq waa Dir waryaa. I don't know about Arab descend but I understand the reason behind it and its a noble one. I mean, what Muslim wouldn't like to have a direct connection to our beloved Prophet (SAW) ? It's like a Christian claiming to have a direct link to Jesus (as).

What else do Arabs really have to offer?

Again, I understand, but I don't agree.
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jalaaludin5 wrote:Isaq waa Dir waryaa. I don't know about Arab descend but I understand the reason behind it and its a noble one. I mean, what Muslim wouldn't like to have a direct connection to our beloved Prophet (SAW) ? It's like a Christian claiming to have a direct link to Jesus (as).

What else do Arabs really have to offer?

Again, I understand, but I don't agree.
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Isaaq is Isaaq my friend, where the sheikh came from I don't know, maybe he was there all along.
I class myself as Cushitic.

Hararboy wrote:

cheifaqilbari wrote:@Hararboy,can you explain what a harari is
, in your own words I keep hearing about Hararis but never seen one .

Harari or Haderes are people who live in the city if Harar in east central Ethiopia. They are a mixture of Indian, Habesha(Gurage, Tigray, Amhara muslims), Arab, Turkish, Somali, and now recently Oromo people whove ancestors have to come to the city for business or to become a good muslim. We have a very unique culture, everyone speaks a unigue langauge called Geysinan, very similar to gurage. Now most live in Dire Dawa and Addis ababa as Harar lost its relevence a few decades ago, now only Oromo Harari are left in the city. Hararis are incredibkly diverse.
These are all Hararis

Totally, agree with every word you said.

May Allah bless the real Adari " Hadaris ". I'm heading to Harar soon to visit some relatives. So bad the native left the beautiful city and Oromos turned it to filthy city.

Togdeer wrote:

jalaaludin5 wrote:Isaq waa Dir waryaa. I don't know about Arab descend but I understand the reason behind it and its a noble one. I mean, what Muslim wouldn't like to have a direct connection to our beloved Prophet (SAW) ? It's like a Christian claiming to have a direct link to Jesus (as).

What else do Arabs really have to offer?

Again, I understand, but I don't agree.
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Isaaq is Isaaq my friend, where the sheikh came from I don't know, maybe he was there all along.
I class myself as Cushitic.

I know that and feel the same if asked qolomaad tahay. Isaq is the simple short answer. But when asked, ...ayuu isaq yahay then obviously its Dir.

Iisa and Samaroon are both Dir but you'll never hear them reply with Dir when asked what clan.? But they are Dir.

Isaq iisa and Samaron became big enough in their own right they just say either Isaq, Ciise or Samaron. To my understanding that is.

I do not bother with all that cushitic palaver. Timiirti hore (somali) ba dab loo layahay adna cushitic iyo sheeko fog baad ka hadleysa.
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