More proof that the Somalis are an Oromo off-shoot

[Waachis]

If the Somali conquered more land than the Oromo, who are YOU to blame us for doing something you did more of?!
Al shabab is administering land that the Somali conquered loooong ago.... the Somali expansion was and is known to be more aggressive and far reaching than the Oromo... are most Somalis not proud of their large land? Be honest with yourself, if possible. Nomads need more land than farmers and move around more, constantly seeking new grass and water... this was what led to the Somali expansion in a sense....and the Oromo expansion was for land too and as a military ritual of the Gada system... every 8 years, the new Gada grade had to wage war against a neighbor or big game like lions, elephants, etc....this was known as the Butta wara

I got a feeling you're not Somali. What Somali has to copy and paste paragraphs from an Amhara extremist who hates Oromo, Eritreans, tigrayans, etc...??
At least brother hawdian uses historical facts and his own arguments to support what he says....

[Waachis]

Waachis,

I just can't comprehend your logic. What makes Oromo the parent and Somali the child? Why can't Somali be the parent? Why can't they be siblings?

I believe you think Oromo is parent only because Oromo pose much larger population. Your logic is bigger population = parent.

Very laughable.

Have you seen the population of Brazil and that of Portugal? United States and England?

Think next time.

As you know, theories can be wrong, or right. When many different educated scholars or diplomats or historians propose the same theory, it may give a certain theory more weight....
Now ask yourself: why hasn't ONE source, be it European or African, suggested or proposed that the Oromo descended from the Somali, as opposed to it being the other way around? Please share any books or people who suggested this. It maybe wrong, regarding the Oromo being the parents, but it's definitely possible, and at least a few historians concur. Some say the Oromo are an ancient African race which may have given birth to several other ethnicities in east Africa. Some groups as far as Rwanda and Uganda are even possible descendants of the Oromo.

[AwRastaale]

Waachis,

I know you are trolling because surely you're more intelligent than that. First of all you have not presented any evidence neither book, or any research work based on any historical facts.

All you managed to do is quote the diary entry of a Church preacher (clergyman) from New York. You running around as if he produced a holy script on the history of Oromo and Somalis. Sorry just a diary from his office in New York. The guy never even set foot in East Africa. Let alone find any other facts, prove today that Harvey Newcomb has been to east Africa.

There are no books or any historical research that claims Somalis are splitter group of Oromo. In fact the world knew Somalis longer and better than Oromo. The fact is until recently you were known as Galla and your name often mistaken with Orma people from Kenya.

What is the oldest record of "Oromo"? You have to prove that.

Just Oromo being larger doesn't make them parent. There is no evidence. The name Galla is even given to them by Somalis meaning the infidel (gaal).

How can the child name the parent?

If we look at the diary entry, we can see many things are wrong with it. He uses tribe, nations, Ethiopic and Abyssinia all in the same sentence. First of all Somali is not a tribe. It is an ethnic. Isaaq, Darod, Hawiye, Dir and Rahanwein are tribes.

There was no Somali state in 1840s thus there is no 'nations'.

Equally Oromo cannot be classified as 'Ethiopic'. Do the research on what "Ethiopic" means.

Finally not all Oromo were under Abyssinia.

When we take those things into consideration without further dissecting the diary entry, we can clearly see he is clueless:

''The next great branch of the Ethiopic race comprehends the Oromo, who occupy an immense tract in Eastern Africa, from Abyssinia as far as the inland Portuguese possessions in Mozambique, to the south of the equator. An interesting tribe of the Oromo are the Somalis, who have lately been brought to the knowledge of Europeans, a widely scattered nation, who lead a pastoral life on the uplands, and also nearer to the coast of the Indian Ocean from Cape Jerdaffur southward to a considerable distance.. They seem to be of a mild and peaceful disposition, while the other Oromo tribes are a warlike race.''

[A Cyclopedia of Missions: Containing a Comprehensive View of Missionary Operations Throughout the World, with Geographical Descriptions, and Accounts ... Moral, and Religious Condition of the People, 1803-1863, Harvey Newcomb]

Next time come up with better things to discuss. I'm not even going to waste my time finding diary entries.

Bigger population isn't parenthood neither are diary entries especially when the author never seen the concerned region.

Oromo and Somalis are related but no body knows who fathered who and who is older as siblings. It is not something relevant in today's world.

Somalis are their own race and did well in their own rights for their size (spreading across the most land amongst any ethnic in Africa).

[PanSomaliNationalist]

That's not a proof just a statement. People need to stop using Western bloggers and their diary entries as "proof" and "holy testimony".

The people who done their work are the anthropologists and I agree with them. Oromo are Cushitic like the Somalis and in siblings there is no such thing as 'off-shot'.

First educate yourself Waachis and stop making holding white travellers and their diary stories so highly.

Study the proper history.

No wonder everyone keeps giving you hard time.

And Oromo is as indigenous to the Horn as the rest of the Cushitic family thus ignore trolls.

As for the guntino dress---it's not that Somali. It was introduced to the Banadir regions in the late 1800s by Arab/Indian/Barawaani traders.

It eventually made its way to the rest of the region including the Borana.

Just because a Somali imported an iPhone before an Oromo----doesn't make the iPhone more Somali than Oromo.

The real Somali clothe was white cotton sheet which itself was made in India. India was long the largest cotton producers and that's how the British got there after the cotton.

After the industrial age, the cotton expanded and it made to places like the Somali coast.

Here are the Saho, also Cushitic, wearing similar clothes.



Saho and Somalis have no contacts so can't say they copied. Just another clothe making its way to other Cushitics. Oromo in Wollo and Afar wear similar too.

Basic knowledge. The first rule in knowledge is freeing your mind from being biased and presenting things 'we, my, our'.

Nagaati.

One saho clan claims Dir descent

[ExSomalispotter]

''The next great branch of the Ethiopic race comprehends the Oromo, who occupy an immense tract in Eastern Africa, from Abyssinia as far as the inland Portuguese possessions in Mozambique, to the south of the equator. An interesting tribe of the Oromo are the Somalis, who have lately been brought to the knowledge of Europeans, a widely scattered nation, who lead a pastoral life on the uplands, and also nearer to the coast of the Indian Ocean from Cape Jerdaffur southward to a considerable distance.. They seem to be of a mild and peaceful disposition, while the other Oromo tribes are a warlike race.''

[A Cyclopedia of Missions: Containing a Comprehensive View of Missionary Operations Throughout the World, with Geographical Descriptions, and Accounts ... Moral, and Religious Condition of the People, 1803-1863, Harvey Newcomb]

Borana Oromos copying Somali culture and clothing.



Who came from who again?

How can we copy our sons and daughters? Makes no sense. Darods came to us, when they were weak numerically, the generous Oromos said ''welcome, our sons, feel free to graze your livestock on the oromo grasslands, what is ours, is yours...''

Khalid's Cousin Speaking
Wait, Darood (Abdul Rahman) came to Somalia to spread Islam. Our History the Ogaden was about fighting the The Gaalo Oromos and Amhara right.

My father (Religious and Tribe expert) told me that Ogaden (Abdul Rahman) never lived in Modern day Ethiopia but lived in north west Somalia, but his descendants fought the Oromo with the Majerteen and Meraxan. Thus how we got Modern day East Ethiopia.

Listen up, We came to you to spread Islam and historically some of the Abgaal and some of Dir tribes didn't become Muslim the 17th century they were following their folktale religion. Abdul Rahman came to the Dir cheif and spread dawah to him and his people and when he spread Islam to the Dir he married his Daughter and gained policital and fought the Gaalo.

Somalis are a collections of people, when Oromos are one people.

[ExSomalispotter]

You sound like an Amhara-extremist-unionist.
They've been there for 100s of years, BEFORE ETHIOPIA EXISTED. If you wanna go with that logic, the somalis are newcomers to NFD, Ogaden (oromos occupied the ogaden about 500 years ago and after a smallpox epidemic almost wiped out the oromos there, the darood somalis took it).

Having been there for 100s of years doesn't make it right; they took it by force, massacred the indigenous, caused unimaginable traumas, etc. Above all, the Oromo never apologized for what they did. So, if the same happens to the Oromo, it would be fair.

True, it's like me saying that the white aussies lived in Australia for 250 years so it is their land but no, this not their land their land is Britian, or Ireland or Netherlands

[paperino]

If the Somali conquered more land than the Oromo, who are YOU to blame us for doing something you did more of?!
Al shabab is administering land that the Somali conquered loooong ago.... the Somali expansion was and is known to be more aggressive and far reaching than the Oromo... are most Somalis not proud of their large land? Be honest with yourself, if possible. Nomads need more land than farmers and move around more, constantly seeking new grass and water... this was what led to the Somali expansion in a sense....and the Oromo expansion was for land too and as a military ritual of the Gada system... every 8 years, the new Gada grade had to wage war against a neighbor or big game like lions, elephants, etc....this was known as the Butta wara

Basically, your excuse is: "we committed massacres 'cause others did so, and it's right." The Oromo Butta wara of hunting humans isn't something to brag about, nor an excuse for grabbing more lands. At least the Somali expansion was for survival (grass and water). Do you apologize for the Oromo massacring indigenous people and illegally taking over their lands?

[Waachis]

Waachis,

I know you are trolling because surely you're more intelligent than that. First of all you have not presented any evidence neither book, or any research work based on any historical facts.

All you managed to do is quote the diary entry of a Church preacher (clergyman) from New York. You running around as if he produced a holy script on the history of Oromo and Somalis. Sorry just a diary from his office in New York. The guy never even set foot in East Africa. Let alone find any other facts, prove today that Harvey Newcomb has been to east Africa.

There are no books or any historical research that claims Somalis are splitter group of Oromo. In fact the world knew Somalis longer and better than Oromo. The fact is until recently you were known as Galla and your name often mistaken with Orma people from Kenya.

What is the oldest record of "Oromo"? You have to prove that.

Just Oromo being larger doesn't make them parent. There is no evidence. The name Galla is even given to them by Somalis meaning the infidel (gaal).

How can the child name the parent?

If we look at the diary entry, we can see many things are wrong with it. He uses tribe, nations, Ethiopic and Abyssinia all in the same sentence. First of all Somali is not a tribe. It is an ethnic. Isaaq, Darod, Hawiye, Dir and Rahanwein are tribes.

There was no Somali state in 1840s thus there is no 'nations'.

Equally Oromo cannot be classified as 'Ethiopic'. Do the research on what "Ethiopic" means.

Finally not all Oromo were under Abyssinia.

When we take those things into consideration without further dissecting the diary entry, we can clearly see he is clueless:

''The next great branch of the Ethiopic race comprehends the Oromo, who occupy an immense tract in Eastern Africa, from Abyssinia as far as the inland Portuguese possessions in Mozambique, to the south of the equator. An interesting tribe of the Oromo are the Somalis, who have lately been brought to the knowledge of Europeans, a widely scattered nation, who lead a pastoral life on the uplands, and also nearer to the coast of the Indian Ocean from Cape Jerdaffur southward to a considerable distance.. They seem to be of a mild and peaceful disposition, while the other Oromo tribes are a warlike race.''

[A Cyclopedia of Missions: Containing a Comprehensive View of Missionary Operations Throughout the World, with Geographical Descriptions, and Accounts ... Moral, and Religious Condition of the People, 1803-1863, Harvey Newcomb]

Next time come up with better things to discuss. I'm not even going to waste my time finding diary entries.

Bigger population isn't parenthood neither are diary entries especially when the author never seen the concerned region.

Oromo and Somalis are related but no body knows who fathered who and who is older as siblings. It is not something relevant in today's world.

Somalis are their own race and did well in their own rights for their size (spreading across the most land amongst any ethnic in Africa).

Dear Hawdian, can you please then refute all of these men and their theories, please? thanks:

1. According to Bates (1979: 7), ''The Oromo were a very ancient race, the indigenous stock, perhaps, on which most of other peoples in this part of eastern Africa had been grafted.''
[Oromo Nationalism and the Ethiopian Discourse: The Search for Freedom and Democracy [Asafa Jalata] page 257]

2. ''Perhaps the old theory of Sir R. Burton is the most correct one: that they (Somalis) are of negro-Hamitic descent, and 'nothing but a slice of the great Galla nation Islam-ized and Semiticised by repeated immigrations from Arabia.' Such a theory is in the main in harmony with the Somali traditions of their Arabian descent, and geographical and historical conditions do not conflict with it; moreover, the physical type of the people agrees with it. The origin of the Galla is another question altogether. Whether they are part of the same race, which pushed into South Africa from the North and are now represented by the Kafir, or whether they are a half-caste Abyssinian race, need not here be discussed.
Somal, or Somali, is a name, that has only been in use to describe the dominant race in the Horn of Africa since the beginning of this century. Sir R. Burton (1856) says that the Somali call their country 'Bar-Al-Ajam.' The old maps name the country 'Asha' and 'Hawiya.' The derivation of the word Somali has puzzled people. Major Abud, whose authority must carry weight, leans to that, which has been suggested by the Language itself. He says: 'The Somali are a hospitable race, and, as milk is their staple food-supply, the first word a stranger would hear in visiting their kraals would be So-mal, i.e., go and bring milk. I have heard it suggested that the word for milk, liss, may account for the termination lis in Somalis.'
[Linguistic and Oriental Essays: 1840-1897
By Robert Needham Cust, pages 813-815]

3. Another interesting theory-''The Somali, a Hamitic race, descend from Arab immigrants into the area from the 7th century on, following the Arab conquests of Zeila and Harar. The name first appears in an Abyssinian song of the 15th century as ''Sumale.'' The main Muslim Arab invasion began during the 13th century, spreading over the Horn of Africa and absorbing the Galla inhabitants.''
[Constitutions of Nations: Volume I, Africa
edited by Amos Jenkins Peaslee, Dorothy Peaslee Xydis, page 722]


4.-''The Somalis are said to be descended from inhabitants of Arabia who absorbed or drove out the previous Galla inhabitants''...
[The Geographical Journal, Volume 78


[Royal Geographical Society, 1931 - Geography, page 101]


5.- ''The Somali are allied to the Gallas, and are clearly a Hamitic race; but to a limited extent the description of the Somali as a half-caste race of Gallas and South Arabians is correct, although the Hamitic is unquestionably the larger constituent element.''

[The living races of mankind : a popular illustrated account of the customs, habits, pursuits, feasts & ceremonies of the races of mankind throughout the world
by Johnston, Harry Hamilton, Sir, 1858-1927; Hutchinson, H. N. (Henry Neville), 1856-1927, pg 372]

[Waachis]

If the Somali conquered more land than the Oromo, who are YOU to blame us for doing something you did more of?!
Al shabab is administering land that the Somali conquered loooong ago.... the Somali expansion was and is known to be more aggressive and far reaching than the Oromo... are most Somalis not proud of their large land? Be honest with yourself, if possible. Nomads need more land than farmers and move around more, constantly seeking new grass and water... this was what led to the Somali expansion in a sense....and the Oromo expansion was for land too and as a military ritual of the Gada system... every 8 years, the new Gada grade had to wage war against a neighbor or big game like lions, elephants, etc....this was known as the Butta wara

Basically, your excuse is: "we committed massacres 'cause others did so, and it's right." The Oromo Butta wara of hunting humans isn't something to brag about, nor an excuse for grabbing more lands. At least the Somali expansion was for survival (grass and water). Do you apologize for the Oromo massacring indigenous people and illegally taking over their lands?

Basically, you're saying ''the somali, yes, conquered more land than the oromo and others, but lets focus only on the oromo, since i'm a hypocrite and adhere to double-standards.''
not bragging, or making excuses, just stating the facts. there's a difference, learn it, if you don't know it.
the oromo expansion was mostly for survival too, just like every one elses.
do you apologize for the somalis killing oromo civilians during the ogaden war?

[paperino]

the oromo expansion was mostly for survival too, just like every one elses.

No, it wasn't. The Oromo were war-like savages who took pleasure in Butta wara, aka hunting humans and making trophies out of them. Unlike Somalis who expelled people from the lands they conquered, the Oromo pillaged everything that come in their path and enslaved those they captured.

According to a report by Bermudes, in the 16th century, Oromos during their wars were fierce and cruel, mutilated and enslaved the people in the regions they conquered.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oromo_people#Slavery

[Waachis]

fighting butta wars and conquering and holding lands are two different things entirely. those wars were sometimes just against lions and elephants, as opposed to humans, as well.
expelling people from land makes it better? it's still stealing/conquering lands.
that report by Bermudes sounds fake, was he a witness to it, or did he simply HEAR that from our enemies the abyssinians?
the abyssinians were known to do those things, mutilations, burning villages and places of worship, etc.
and the somalis are the true enslavers, forgot the jareer term? and how u somalis made them do the hard work that u refused to do?!


''Bantu migrants reached the Indian Ocean coast of present-day Somalia as early as the 500s or 600s. Persecuted by the lighter-skinned Somali that later settled the region, many Bantus were enslaved. In the 700s Islam forbid the enslavement of Muslims, so the Pagan Africans were targeted. The slave trade increased rapidly, and between 1800 and 1890, up to 50,000 captives from present day Tanzania and Mozambique were brought to Somalia by Arab slavers.''

[Encyclopedia of Stateless Nations: Ethnic and National Groups around the World, 2nd Edition [James B. Minahan], page 388]

[paperino]

expelling people from land makes it better? it's still stealing/conquering lands.

It's more humane than massacring people as the war-like and human hunting Oromo did.

[Waachis]

expelling people from land makes it better? it's still stealing/conquering lands.

It's more humane than massacring people as the war-like and human hunting Oromo did.

like how somalis massacred oromo farmers and raped oromo girls during the ogaden war of 78, while your dumb retarded ass is still here discussing what happened 100s of years ago......
you sound more and more like the amhara extremists everytime you type something

[paperino]

you sound more and more like the amhara extremists everytime you type something

I'm partially amhara, related to the late Tafari Makonnen, though I've never been to Ethiopia.

[Alphamale1]

It is offensive to associate Somalis with Oromos. Generally speaking Oromos are very mild, not quick witted as oppose to the Somalis who are witty, very clear confident and business savvy.

I don't need to read some statements from some guy, because I live in the midst of both people and I have seen stark differences ranging from food, culture, business, and Down to the personal hygiene.

If you put 10 million Somalis against 40 million Oromos, 10/10 Somalis will come up on top.

Generally, Somalis consider Oromos and Ethiopians as inferior.

Somalis even use phrases like Oromo and Habashi to insult each other