LAW, MOHAWK, GAMADID: COME OUT ON ISLAM

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SomaliLight
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Post by SomaliLight »

[quote]This does not mean that women live in paradises in muslim countries! ( But the blame should be on people then on religion).[/quote] caydid
We are discussing the pros and cons of having a islamis state, AND SO WHATS THE POINT OF HAVING A RELIGIOUS STATE, IF THE RELIGION IS NOT EVEN PRACICED, WHAT FUKIN GOOD IS IT IF U GIVE ME RIGHTS AS WOMEN,IF THEY DON'T MEAN SHIT WHEN SOMEONE ACCUSES ME FALSLY OR KILLS ME.( WHAT KIND OF ARGUMENT IS THIS Question Question Question )


and generalka
[quote]Just because it wasn't practiced dosn't make Islam guilty of not providing those rights. The problem you pointed above is a problem that plagues the culturally backward Arabs and some Asian countries but not any other culture. This women rights is usually the cheap arguments the Evangelicals use so please dont try it on us[/quote]

WHAT ABOUT THE QUESTION ABOUT JUSTICE, MISTER I DON'T CARE FOR THE WOMEN'S COMPLAINTS, WHAT ABOUT FATWAS, OR MULLAH ORDERD SLAYINGS, I DON'T SEE THAT ANYHERE IN THE QURAN, ISLAM STATES USE THEM ALL THE TIME TO EXECUTE THOSE THEY WANNA SILENCE.

MY POINT IS IF ISLAM IS SO GREAT, IT SHOULD BE PRACTICED WITH SAME GREATNESS, DON'T BURN DOWN MY HOUSE, KILL MY FAMILY AND REFERNCE ME TO SOME GOOD FAITH THAT EXISTS IN YOUR HEAD.

NO THANKS
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Post by Caydid »

SomaliLight,

There are only PROS with an islamic state. The cons come with individuals who use the faith half heartedly!

There are hardly any present state in the world that qualifies as islamic state.

Insha Allah one day an islamic state that governs according to islam would be created- and the rights of women would be safeguarded!

My reaction to this thread came from the fact that Galol and others think a secular state is better than an islamic state. This is a gross intellectual error- wrong notion and far from facts. There are no secular states (most of them are run in accordance with judeo-christian principles).


Why don't you fight for the proclaimation of an islamic state????
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Post by SomaliLight »

[quote]Why don't you fight for the proclaimation of an islamic state????[/quote]

Caydid, I think Galol, and the rest of us arguing for non-islamic state are aware of the role of christianity, Judiasm in secular states around the world.

But all these secular states have a hands off appraoch to the personal beliefs and behaviour of their citizens, Islam whether for the purpose of control or bad governance has terrorized the personal lives if its ciztens.

Alllah for when one, is the judge of his creation, everyone is accountable by his intentions, no social governance of khomeni, king al sa'ud or anyone will change that fate. God does not sanction the annoyance of society with fear and control, but peace and harmony.

islam is confused, the sharia law itself is based some hadiths modfied slightly from the quran. how can we expect it to deliver social harmony?
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Post by generalka »

what islamic state are you talking about? If you mean the Taliban, than you are wrong to use them as an excuse. If there was an organization as far away from a true Islamic governmental organization, it would be the Taliban. If you are not talking about the Taliban, can you please enlighten me on which Islamic governments in the past have commited the atrocoties (?sp) you listed above.

Also, I really do not understand your argument. Are you saying the Islamic system cannot be used because it hasn't ever been truthfully implemented in the past? If that is so, then why do you argue against Islam when the problem, according to you, is the implementation of he Sharia.
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Post by gurey25 »

Instead of arguing wether a secualr state is better than a proposed islamic one, lets think of ways to prevent abuse of power in an islamic system.

For example
what about this idea from an unusual source "Mocamar alqadhafi" of libya.

He proposed an advisory councel of female ulema,
with powers to veto all new interpretations of islamic law that affects women.

this is to prevent abuses due to cultural mores.
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Post by SomaliLight »

[quote]Also, I really do not understand your argument. Are you saying the Islamic system cannot be used because it hasn't ever been truthfully implemented in the past? If that is so, then why do you argue against Islam when the problem, according to you, is the implementation of he Sharia.[/quote] generalka

yes, islam without sharia is livable state, infact the quran has little or no great intrudement into social life except, in murder, divorce, mariage and inheritance laws.

but that islam is behind the covers of a book. just don't offer me what you won't provide... bottom line.
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Post by generalka »

[quote]yes, islam without sharia is livable state, infact the quran has little or no great intrudement into social life except, in murder, divorce, mariage and inheritance laws. [/quote]

if you truely believe in the Koran, than you just contradicted yourself as the Sharia comes from the Koran.
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Post by SoMaLiSiZz »

Assalam Alaikom WarhmatuAllah Wbaraktuh

The political system of Islam is based on the three principles of towhid (Oneness of Allah), risala (Prophethood) and Khilifa (Caliphate).


there is no such thing as Politics without islam for muslims that is Arrow
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Post by The Arabman »

Definition of "secular":

adj.
1. Worldly rather than spiritual.
2. Not specifically relating to religion or to a religious body: secular music.
3. Relating to or advocating secularism.
4. Not bound by monastic restrictions, especially not belonging to a religious order. Used of the clergy.
5. Occurring or observed once in an age or century.
6. Lasting from century to century.

n.
1. A member of the secular clergy.
2. A layperson.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=secular
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Post by LionHeart-112 »

What surprises me is that an old man who claims to have abandoned Islam can't seem to stop talking about it. Why do you care how muslim countries rule themselves? Just answer this. You left Islam (or so you say), you don't even believei n God, and you collect your welfare in England..

You claim that no intelligent person can believe that a modern state should esablish Islamic law..well guess what?

No true Muslim can accept man-made law over Islamic Law and still call himself a true muslim.
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Post by Galol »

Generalka

So Quran is perfect, Isalm is perfect, muhmamed is perfect, hadeeth is perfect but muslims mess it all up? This intellectual decoupling of Islam from muslims is so common among unthinking Muslims it beggars belief, no pun intended.

You do not realise it but you are dehumanising Isalmism, turning it into some kind of alien abstratcion divorced from its believers and denuded of humanity. This Isalm is therefore unattainable and impracticable because its divine perfection and divinness is by its nature un-human. So is perfection.

The Isalm I am taklking about is the more earthly one the one practised by mere mortals who "interpret" divinness in their own image. it is the human Isalm. The one practised by Iran, Sudan, Saudi taliban and the mad bstrads of Mog. It is the one where arms are lobbed off the sons of the poor; lactating mothers are stoned to death after holy prayers and where everything is banned except murder and fasting. That is the real human face of Islam.

Now I understand those who say yes but that is how it is and that how we want it. Honesty from such people, pondlife brains though they are, is respecatble. pondlife is also god's creatures and god made man in his own image which I suppose God pondlife-brained? Sorry just thinking aloud. God as Somalisizz. hmmm. Or perhaps that is offensive God made man in his image not woman...

As for the Quran being Allah's own words I hope you don't mean that. I hope you are parrotting what you have heard in the Dugsi quran. How can a grown up, literate, 21st century human being actually literally believe in skydwelling gods reachable through space-going white mules sending winged spying ET angels running nasty torture chambers in chimera afterlifes - is just beyond me. It is an insult to human intelligence, to human enlightemnent to human struggles and ideas and sciences and every other achievement mankind has gained since it moved out of caves terrorised by real and imagined demons.

The quran is clearly, unmistakably, unaraguably human. it is its humannes wot makes it beautiful and divine with small d. It is full of bitching, excuse the term but how else can you interpret, that word again, the following if not bitching(" look at how much he earned and the wealth he ammassed....[yet still] his wife collects firewood...[oh how I wish] to see a rope around her neck") Straight out of footballers wives only 1,500 years earlier.

And then there is really peed off quran, the quran which calls a man a "fat gossipping bstrad" and threatens to knock his block off in the next fight. There is the quran which says camels are beautiful and the world is flat and the sun sets in a murky pool inhabited by lillputian humanoids.

Ridicolously beautiful. JK Rowling eat your heart out.
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Post by LionHeart-112 »

^^we like the Qur'an today..wooow..Some body woke up on the right side of the nursery home.

An iliterate Arab man in the year 600 knew things that just now being discovered by scientists..

yeah, the Qur'an is very human.. Rolling Eyes

Seriously, answer my question. Why do u even care?

Are you scared now that you are close to death?

Is old man having second thoughts about hell?

Laughing Laughing Laughing

Repent before you die fu.cker.
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Post by AMAT-ALLAH »

How i see Islam, is like a water-well. Its comes with one purpose and that is to quench the thirst for those in need of water, however many can use it for other perverted means e.g. drown people. Thats why unfortunatly we have people that use Islam as a tool of terrioism.....

Mowhawk,Law26 and Gamadiid from what 'I' read from their contributions are far from secular/moderate, they are progressive. And they Alhamduilah are breathe of fresh air..... Smile
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Post by Rightwing »

I do with AMAT-ALLAH by saying Mowhawk,Law26 and Gamadiid from what 'I' read from their contributions are far from secular.

Islam is not to Blame Question here. The ongoing crisis in the Muslim world and the misrepresentation of Islam. We need Ulema who do not opposed modern education.

Muslims ought to re-evaluate their situation and education of Islam. Islam has its own explanation.



LE JUSTICIER
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Post by Ureysoo »

*Is it appropriate 2 use Islam as political system*

Well, we are acquainted with the verity that the prophet (PBUH), Cliphals and all the Islamic empires used Islam as political system and that was the reason why they managed 2 manipulate, and expand their lands, but things changed slightly when Muslims modified their notions and purified politics from shari’a at the end of the ottoman empire. Perceptibly that was one of the rationales why the golden era of Islamic empires ended which tolerated western countries 2 catch up. This demonstrates that using Islam as political system assisted the Muslim nation alot. Beside, there are little dissimilarities between Islamic politics and democracy, in which Islam speaks of sovereignty of Allah, while western democracy advocates that sovereignty belongs to people, since it’s man made policies, while on the other hand Islam is a God ordained way of life, and as such it reflects the infinite divine wisdom, which is absolutely infallible.

*Why did Muslim countries embraced western democracy rather than Islamic politics*

I consider this theme as a sensitive issue, but as I presuppose, after western countries succeeded in colonizing Muslim lands, they obligated them 2 adopt their ideologies and systems in various fields (Education, Government, etc). Alongside, the policies of western countries included demolishing the Muslim countries which runs an Islamic political system. Therefore they were imposed 2 pursue them. That’s why we can clearly detect why the united states of America persecutes countries which got parallel politics 2 the Islamic one. Anyway, al Jazirah channel, will discuss this issue, in one of their programmers *Muthalath Al-5a’9ab*, declaring some of the reasons why some of the leading Muslims countries like Sudia Arabia modified some of their systems, in order 2 gratify USA.

Ur comment Arrow *no intelligent person can accept the ludicrous concept that modrerm societies should be ruled with Islamism or any other religious code for that matter.*

Matter of fact, I deem using Islam as political system, will remove filth and impurity and render ppl utterly free from western society pollution. No speculate why, slaughtering, raping, and robbing cases amplified among our society, not 2 mention perilous syndromes. By the way, I was interpreting an article about how USA, will enforce some of the Islamic teachings, regarding 2 sex issues, in order 2 secure ppl from terrifying diseases such as HIV.

Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing @ al baqara al ‘9a7ika, Waraa Cubeed waa ku dhufatay miyaa, jubnadi carabaha maxaa kugu so xasuusiyay hada... Laughing

*Bless*
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