ADOPTING: Somali Kids

[X.Playa]

michal ital,

Never mind Cawr the religious hamster. The story is more complicated then that, you see before your adopted son in Islam was no different then your biological son , till a scandal rocked the boat.

Mohamed's adopted son had a pretty wife and Mohamed always desired her, but the problem was their was already a common conses that the wife of your adopted son is no different then the wife of your biological son, even if your son died you can't in Islam marry his widow. Mohamed's adopted son finding himself ina delima after his father Mohamed fell in love with his wife he cut himself loose and divorced the wife and Mohamed in no time married her and bedded her.

It was scandal , so Mohamed had to change the statute of adopted son so his case can be legalized Islamically, so he went around the issue by saying, your adopted son has not the matrimonial right as your biological son and hence against the common wisdom and culture Mohamed's marriage to his son's wife became logical to the Religious Hamsters who took it with pride , and the beat goes on .

If the girl was ugly poor adopted kids would have the same right as biological once.

[michael_ital]

Damn, ima hafta look that one up. That's deep.

[Cawar]

Hey X thats your version...so i hope yopu dont mind i present not my version but that of Allah SWT...which obviously you dont believe in...fine....but as always it has made more sense throughout the history of mankind and it still makes more sense to maybe 99.9% of the worlds population!


Mike here is/are the Ayats:

In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.

"33.1": O Prophet! be careful of (your duty to) Allah and do not comply with (the wishes of) the unbelievers and the hypocrites; surely Allah is Knowing, Wise;

"33.2": And follow what is revealed to you from your Lord; surely Allah is Aware of what you do;

"33.3": And rely on Allah; and Allah is sufficient for a Protector.

"33.4": Allah has not made for any man two hearts within him; nor has He made your wives whose backs you liken to the backs of your mothers as your mothers, nor has He made those whom you assert to be your sons your real sons; these are the words of your mouths; and Allah speaks the truth and He guides to the way.

"33.5": Assert their relationship to their fathers; this is more equitable with Allah; but if you do not know their fathers, then they are your brethren in faith and your friends; and there is no blame on you concerning that in which you made a mistake, but (concerning) that which your hearts do purposely (blame may rest on you), and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

"33.6": The Prophet has a greater claim on the faithful than they have on themselves, and his wives are (as) their mothers; and the possessors of relationship have the better claim in the ordinance of Allah to inheritance, one with respect to another, than (other) believers, and (than) those who have fled (their homes), except that you do some good to your friends; this is written in the Book



Here is another link which provides the list of those who you can marry:


http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/humanrelati ... riage.html

[SomaliLight]

cawar----> you have not helped mike with you lamely chosen verses, all it says is that aallah knows thee is lust amongs you.

..aalah is always understanding when it comes to one man's desires. ah amen

[michael_ital]

Those Ayat's don't appear to be very lucid in their meaning. In fact, they leave themselves open for interpretation, creating a somwewhat grey area.

But this, >> 15.His real son's wife, seems to lend credence to X Playa's assertion. Interesting debate. I'd like to read more on it.

[SomaliLight]

[quote]Those Ayat's don't appear to be very lucid in their meaning. In fact, they leave themselves open for interpretation, creating a somwewhat grey area[/quote]

mike, islam is big grey area itself, it helps if you don'tt ask questions on anything, if not then you can't avoid leaving it behind.

[michael_ital]

I came up with the same Ayat's.

This situation highlights the many justifiable reasons why in Islam the blurring of a child’s birthright is not allowed as in adoption.

[Nor has He made those whom you assert to be your sons your real sons; these are the words of your mouths; and Allah speaks the truth and He guides to the way. Assert their relationship to their fathers, this is more equitable with Allah; but if you do not know their fathers, then they are your brethren in faith and your friends; and there is no blame on you concerning that in which you made a mistake, but (concerning) that which your hearts do purposely (blame may rest on you), and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.] (Al-Ahzab 33:4-5)

And this:

These same parents that came forward to adopt Bosnian children withdrew their offers! [And they ask you concerning the orphans. Say: To set right for them (their affairs) is good, and if you become co-partners with them, they are your brethren.] (Al-Baqarah 2:220)

From what i've read, it IS indeed xaraam. Except in the case of childless couples who've exhausted every other measure.

[Cawar]

Mike

Its all up to you my friend...there is the wrod of Allah...IFF you believe in it....and there are the words of X-P and SLight...to me the choice is clear.

That said...the reason we respond to these 2nd hand atheist is nothing else but their way of finding the gullible ones amongst us who would fall for their trap and/or sometimes attractive but deceptive words...actually Allah has warned us about them....there are more verses...

One more thing though mike...whats that you're trying to understand when you say:

"Those Ayat's don't appear to be very lucid in their meaning. In fact, they leave themselves open for interpretation, creating a somwewhat grey area."

Are you saying that Muhammed CSW invented this to excuse himself?? btw the story about X-playa is a total fabrication...but again you are free to believe in which ever version.


PS:Well i am glad you made your own research and conclusions mike...I just read what you found out.

[dhuusa_deer]

Xplaya is right. There was NO verse/s permitting a father to marry his daughter-in-law of his adopted son, until Mohammed decided otherwise. Prior to Mohammed's marriage of his daughter in law, adopted son was considered your blood son and marrying his wife was a no-no. The verse regarding legalizing Mohammed's marriage to his daughter in law was conveniently 'revealed' after Mohammed's desires in her were aroused. Not before! That should tell you something.

We see this pattern repeated all over the Quran with verses profitably bailing Mohammed out of dicey situations or placating his needs.

[michael_ital]

Cawar, yes, in such things I need to find out facts for myself. I'm still reading, looking for a bit more. But it seems pretty clear at this point in time.

[Cawar]

Mike

Let me just tell you one thing ...and this is true(has been throughout history)...the so called Islamophopes will always jump at any possibility of a remotely debatable/discussed subject(among muslims mind you)...and make that their departure/arrival point to criticize Islam...even when they know their attempts have failed repeatedly in the past...all they care is to recruit one in a gazillion like dhuuso...so as to keep repeating the same old music to the point of nausea.

How long have you been here?? i am sure you have learned a lot abt somalis...a lot about Islam...can you say the same about those who attack Islam day and night?? i bet they kept repeating the same over and over since the day you joined here...

In conclusion..as we all suppose to do...we should find our own way..and search as much as we can abt the truth.

Wa Bilaahil Towfiiq.

[X.Playa]

"So when Zaid had accomplished his desire from her (i.e., divorced her), We gave her to you in marriage." [Al-Qur'an 33:37]

Of course Mohamed why would God say no to you?? You are both one and the same talking in th Quran. Once Aisha angrily told him Mohamed '"i see how your god is so quick to guaranty you all your sexual wishes" ,

Its pathetic how God in the Quran is truned into Mohamed's personnel Dr Phil managing his 22 women, why would God waste over 200 versus on Mohamed's wife Pickering if it the book meant for the entire human race? couldn't god told us how he created the the earth and sky and what in between in 6 days.

Mohamed was so bussy managing his pickering Harme's he even couldn't count right in the Quran, speaking of the myth of creation in 6 days:


2 Say: Is it that ye deny Him Who created the earth in TWO Days
And do ye join equals with Him? He is the Lord of (all) the Worlds.
+
He set on the (earth), mountains standing firm, high above it,
and bestowed blessings on the earth, and measured therein all things
4 to give them nourishment in due proportion, in FOUR Days
in accordance with (the needs of) those who seek (Sustenance).

Moreover He comprehended in His design the sky,
and it had been (as) smoke: He said to it and to the earth:
"Come ye together, willingly or unwillingly."
They said: "We do come (together), in willing obedience."
+
2 So He completed them as seven firmaments in TWO Days,
and He assigned to each heaven its duty and command.
And We adorned the lower heaven with lights,
and (provided it) with guard.
Such is the Decree of (Him) the Exalted in Might, Full of Knowledge.
-- Sura 41:9-12 (Yusuf Ali)

= 8 altogether these are EIGHT Days.

[SomaliLight]

Xplaya, not everyone is good at math, especially a nomad arab odey:lol:

[michael_ital]

[quote="Cawar"]Mike


How long have you been here?? i am sure you have learned a lot abt somalis...a lot about Islam...can you say the same about those who attack Islam day and night?? i bet they kept repeating the same over and over since the day you joined here...

In conclusion..as we all suppose to do...we should find our own way..and search as much as we can abt the truth.

Wa Bilaahil Towfiiq.[/quote]

Pretty much. especially Galol's oft repeated verse about winged camals/donkeys/etc, etc. I enjoy his writing when it's about Somalia, but his Islamic opinions leave something to be desired.

[Cawar]

X-Playa

YOu should have stayed as an X...as its evident that your plays as well as your methods are not even in contact with your ownself...let alone the rest of the community of snet.

I wonder why you have to go through all that trouble...Isnt it sufficient for you to say i dont believe in any of that...and i am moving on with my life??? or are you a man-god...paid by your masters... prophet who is here to tell and spread lies about islam??? why does ir bother you....i am yet to be answered and/or convinced abt that???

Anyways...the verses say:

"33.37": And when you said to him to whom Allah had shown favor and to whom you had shown a favor: Keep your wife to yourself and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; and you concealed in your soul what Allah would bring to light, and you feared men, and Allah had a greater right that you should fear Him. But when Zaid had accomplished his want of her, We gave her to you as a wife, so that there should be no difficulty for the believers in respect of the wives of their adopted sons, when they have accomplished their want of them; and Allah's command shall be performed.

"33.38": There is no harm in the Prophet doing that which Allah has ordained for him; such has been the course of Allah with respect to those who have gone before; and the command of Allah is a decree that is made absolute:

"33.39": Those who deliver the messages of Allah and fear Him, and do not fear any one but Allah; and Allah is sufficient to take account.

"33.40": Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but he is the Apostle of Allah and the Last of the prophets; and Allah is cognizant of all things.



Mike

YOu know I would be the first one to admit that I like the geezers writing style...but some are just absurd.