Somali Islamists capture Jowhar

[Galol]

Sir Lug

You speak like someone who was right there in Nejd and Hijaz and too kind and gentle to inflict upon us the details of the evil allegedly visited upon the `early Muslims'.
Sadly I have a strong suspicion your knowledge of the subject matter does not justify the implied wisdom.

In human history, times abound when myth, reality, propoganda and legend, objectivity and subjectivity merge into a haze of indecirephable maze.

But there are also times when objective historical facts emerge with such clarity that all agree on their basic, overall veracity.

And on this subject we know some facts; incontrovertible facts with perhaps only the minutest of detail open to discussion.
These facts include:

1. Muhammed and his group (in fact it was Hamza who was boss at the time) attacked and robbed at Badr. The aim was clear robbery and clan revenge(Hashemi vs Ummayad)

2. Muhmmed and his group attacked at Uhud. all above detail also applies.

3. Muhammed attacked without provocation, dozens of other towns, villages, religious groups and clans (read the attack on Khaybar)

4. Once he defeated the Ummayads, a bit like the HGidirs defeating the Abgals, he showed them cousinly diplomacy(man dakhala beyt abu sufyan fa huwa aamin..; La acbudu ma tacbiduun etc)

5. He then sent letters to Rome, Persia, Egypt. I think the only other empires he knew were Ethiopia and China. Why he didnt send them anything we dont know. All letters said the same thing: Surrender to me and my new idea; or pay Jizyah(baad in Soomaali).

6. Every attack after that was an attack not defense: Persia at Qaddissiyah; Syria at Yarmuk; Spain at Andalucia. Also attacked without any provocation was Egypt, Palestine, India, Sudan, Maghreb and even Ethiopia eventually despite Mo promising them immunity from Islamist agression for their protection of Mo's followers including quite a few of his wives. thank Jesus(or more rationally the mountains and the Portuguese made cannon) this hub of African civilisation was spared from the kind of Muslim barbarity now ravaging Jowhar and Hamar.

[The rebel]

[quote="Galol"]Sir Lug

You speak like someone who was right there in Nejd and Hijaz and too kind and gentle to inflict upon us the details of the evil allegedly visited upon the `early Muslims'.
Sadly I have a strong suspicion your knowledge of the subject matter does not justify the implied wisdom.

In human history, times abound when myth, reality, propoganda and legend, objectivity and subjectivity merge into a haze of indecirephable maze.

But there are also times when objective historical facts emerge with such clarity that all agree on their basic, overall veracity.

And on this subject we know some facts; incontrovertible facts with perhaps only the minutest of detail open to discussion.
These facts include:

1. Muhammed and his group (in fact it was Hamza who was boss at the time) attacked and robbed at Badr. The aim was clear robbery and clan revenge(Hashemi vs Ummayad)

2. Muhmmed and his group attacked at Uhud. all above detail also applies.

3. Muhammed attacked without provocation, dozens of other towns, villages, religious groups and clans (read the attack on Khaybar)

4. Once he defeated the Ummayads, a bit like the HGidirs defeating the Abgals, he showed them cousinly diplomacy(man dakhala beyt abu sufyan fa huwa aamin..; La acbudu ma tacbiduun etc)

5. He then sent letters to Rome, Persia, Egypt. I think the only other empires he knew were Ethiopia and China. Why he didnt send them anything we dont know. All letters said the same thing: Surrender to me and my new idea; or pay Jizyah(baad in Soomaali).

6. Every attack after that was an attack not defense: Persia at Qaddissiyah; Syria at Yarmuk; Spain at Andalucia. Also attacked without any provocation was Egypt, Palestine, India, Sudan, Maghreb and even Ethiopia eventually despite Mo promising them immunity from Islamist agression for their protection of Mo's followers including quite a few of his wives. thank Jesus(or more rationally the mountains and the Portuguese made cannon) this hub of African civilisation was spared from the kind of Muslim barbarity now ravaging Jowhar and Hamar.[/quote]

I know he doesn't know anything about the topic but Hashimis and Ummayat were fighting over power not religion. because both were Muslims(atleast they were claimming to be a muslims)

The other point I want to clear it is : Prophet Mohamed(PBUH) never attacked. They were forced to fight (I'm talking Prophet's time not after his death.... because what happened after that was another issue).

Muslims like any other group of people they are allowed to defend themself and ofcourse spread their religion.

The last point "he showed them cousinly diplomacy(man dakhala beyt abu sufyan fa huwa aamin..; La acbudu ma tacbiduun etc)" This was Abu Sufyan when he gave up fighting and acknowleged that his power time is gone and there are new leaders...So he was like ' if you can't beat them join them'...so he join them.

[Galol]

Rebel

"I know he doesn't know anything about the topic but Hashimis and Ummayat were fighting over power not religion. because both were Muslims(atleast they were claimming"

I am a little surprised you think there was a big difference between religion and power. Religion is one of the means in which power is exercised

"Prophet Mohamed(PBUH) never attacked"

So who attacked at Uhud? Who told the mercenaries "ihmu duhurna. Low ra'ytamouna nuhzam fala tanzirouna..walow ra'ytamouna nighnam fala tasharikouna"?

I think we agree on the last point.

[The rebel]

Then, you need to read how Battle of Ohud started. Talha ibn Abu Talha from Bani Abdul-dar, challenged Muslims and said his famous word 'Are there any duelers' Well, what you expect? Ali came as same as battle of Badr and take the challenge, then the rest you know. So still was self defence. There was law of survivor and who will rule in the end. Two opposite powers wouldn't exist, righ?

I am glad we agreed on some thing old man

[Galol]

Rebel

Even the Talha challenge at Uhud(are you sure? I thought the challenge was at Badr?) still proves Muslims attacked.

What is your point anyway? With all due respect I dont get it.

[The rebel]

My point was to correct some errors. That is all and to prove Muslims never started to attack any one. Even prophet was against that battle. Muslims whom their father/Sons/brother/uncles were killed in Badr wanted to revenge and Prophet told them to not fight untill the enemy comes to them. They argued agaist him saying " they will think we are cowards" So he was forced to dress up and go with them but never started to attack. That is my point. Anyways that was a lesson for them. They were defeated after won.

Don't all work out old man. I'm not attacking you. Just correcting you. You are free to disagree.

[Galol]

Rebel

Ok. Nonsense accepted, in your case. Dont push it.

[The rebel]

[gurey25]

what now uxud was a muslim attack??

common ever since the upset at badr the meccans were spoiling for a fight.
When the enemy is comming for you, you should not fight in your home
(medina) you should meet them out there on the battlefied of your choosing.

xarb al axzaab later on had to be defensive becuase the forces arrayed against the muslims were even greater than before, forcing defensive tactics, and preventing a manouver battle.


now you are saying the muslims were atacking everyone?
they were trying to survive a very hostile environment, and bieng such a tiny community its a miracle they survived.

during uxud the jes of medina outnumbered the muslims at least 2wice.

[The rebel]

lool@gurey . Galol wont listen to you why bother now

He knows the details but he is teasing kids here who know nothing about what they're defending.

[Kramer]

All the way baby! all the way --we support them 105%

[Galol]

Gurey & Rebel

The point is shall we stick to the facts or shall we depend on myth?

[gurey25]

you are the one assuming facts to be myth.

[B-MAX]

This is how Jowhar went down.


"The Islamic court forces came into town from three directions and captured it without firing a shot. Large crowds of people came into the streets of the town to welcome them,” said Nur. "It is like the whole population has come out into the streets. It has the feel of a festival here. It is almost as if nothing happened."



http://www.hiiraan.com/news/2006/jun/so ... s14_5.aspx


Next stop. Baidoa.

[Sir-Luggoyo]

Galol


I am really appalled that you haven't resorted to vulgarity when your flimsy lie is cornered and the noose tightened, Woooww, that is a progress, I applaud you old man.


A word of advise though. Never try to twist the records of history cause ppl are not as ignorant as you think.