Highclass
Where things are not very easy is interpretation. Let's the beard issue. Hadith do not, as you are aware, have the same level of authority as the Qur'an. Shari'a comes from the Qur'an, not the Hadith. I am sure you are aware of this. Those who try to make LEGAL (vice spiratual) decisions based on Hadith are on very shaky ground and often you see a lot of rationalizing. Basically, if Mohammed did not proscribe a SPECIFIC punishment for an offense, then that offense does NOT HAVE an EARTHLY punishment. Thus, those who do not pray, for example, are not subject ot earthly punishment, as none was specified. This would be the same thing for beards. Whether or not they are required or recommended is subject to debate. What is not subject to debate is if a Muslim does not follow the beard edict, he CAN NOT be given an earthly punishment. This is bad scholarship, as practiced by the Taliban. And this is where things get murky.
Is khat haram or Makruh? Fact is khat was chewed during the time of the Mohammed and he did not ban it. We can, however, extrapolate that it would make sense for khat to be haram. But in fact, it was not mentioned and it was known. So we must conclude it is Makruh. However, it might be in the interest of the state to ban it - although again, this is likely to lead to significant conflict so you have to ask "is the risk worth the gain?" This is but a couple of examples. There would be many. And I can guarantee you that the TFG is not going to stand for men like Aweys making those decisions.
muslim man- sheikh sharif arrested-no more lies.
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highclass
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MAD MAC
In some cases verses of the Quran can not be understood without Hadiths, We know the different Hadith and their level of authenticity. How can you say that Sharia is just based on the Quran? for example the prophet said "You can not sell what is not in your possession" This is from a hadith and not in the Quran, so are saying that its not part of the Sharia??
Where did the prophet ever come across khat? this is just a load of bullshit, you are saying that Hadith are not a source to follow and yet you are telling us that drugs are makruum based on nothing.
WAS KHAT EVEN USED BY ARABS IN THE TIME OF THE PROPHET?? Khat is not a very old practice among the Somalis and Yemeni how can the followers of prophets been chewing khat??
[quote]So we must conclude it is Makruh[/quote]
How can you as a non-muslim conclude that something is Makruh without any evidence?? Makruh literally means something "disliked" or "undesirable." According to the Sharia. Where in Islamic Literate were khat ever mentioned?
Read what the Yemen Times says about Khat.
http://www.yementimes.com/article.shtml ... health&a=1
It clearly proves to that khat is haram, Please stop the lies about the Quran and Islam regarding Khat.
Regarding the Beards, I never specified any punishment, I donÂ’t want to go to deep into thing I donÂ’t know much about, It can lead to many mistakes has you have proven. Islam is not as simple as other religions, you have to be highly qualified and knowledgeable in those areas you talk about which both of use aren't.
In some cases verses of the Quran can not be understood without Hadiths, We know the different Hadith and their level of authenticity. How can you say that Sharia is just based on the Quran? for example the prophet said "You can not sell what is not in your possession" This is from a hadith and not in the Quran, so are saying that its not part of the Sharia??
Where did the prophet ever come across khat? this is just a load of bullshit, you are saying that Hadith are not a source to follow and yet you are telling us that drugs are makruum based on nothing.
WAS KHAT EVEN USED BY ARABS IN THE TIME OF THE PROPHET?? Khat is not a very old practice among the Somalis and Yemeni how can the followers of prophets been chewing khat??
[quote]So we must conclude it is Makruh[/quote]
How can you as a non-muslim conclude that something is Makruh without any evidence?? Makruh literally means something "disliked" or "undesirable." According to the Sharia. Where in Islamic Literate were khat ever mentioned?
Read what the Yemen Times says about Khat.
http://www.yementimes.com/article.shtml ... health&a=1
It clearly proves to that khat is haram, Please stop the lies about the Quran and Islam regarding Khat.
Regarding the Beards, I never specified any punishment, I donÂ’t want to go to deep into thing I donÂ’t know much about, It can lead to many mistakes has you have proven. Islam is not as simple as other religions, you have to be highly qualified and knowledgeable in those areas you talk about which both of use aren't.
Eyes-only,
you are still young, innocent and naive. You hardly know how the world works or who gets what(politics). Not to mention, you lost reality on the ground. What negotiation you are talking about?. IUC lost hands down. Thus, there is nothing there to be negotiated here. For that matter plus others, i say salaama to you!. It is because ain't much time to spare!
Musica,
Right on budy. US never rewards Islamic moderate nor any lost side ever. Uncle Sam take care of his loyal foot soldiers. I am not blaming a Uncle Sam a bit here. I am just being honest, here.
Mad Mac,
You disappoint me budy. Sooner or later the secret will be out. And you shouldn't playing stupid here. Sheikh Sharif was insider. Weeks before his surender, US leaked that High official IUC member was caught by Kenyan police. It is was lies, Sharif was in the hands of US at the border. Not to mention, US was suggesting negotiating with IUC when all IUC official were missing in action. Not to mention that Sharif himself admitted that IUC were in contact with US. I am not blaming US here. I am just pointing out the truth!
you are still young, innocent and naive. You hardly know how the world works or who gets what(politics). Not to mention, you lost reality on the ground. What negotiation you are talking about?. IUC lost hands down. Thus, there is nothing there to be negotiated here. For that matter plus others, i say salaama to you!. It is because ain't much time to spare!
Musica,
Right on budy. US never rewards Islamic moderate nor any lost side ever. Uncle Sam take care of his loyal foot soldiers. I am not blaming a Uncle Sam a bit here. I am just being honest, here.
Mad Mac,
You disappoint me budy. Sooner or later the secret will be out. And you shouldn't playing stupid here. Sheikh Sharif was insider. Weeks before his surender, US leaked that High official IUC member was caught by Kenyan police. It is was lies, Sharif was in the hands of US at the border. Not to mention, US was suggesting negotiating with IUC when all IUC official were missing in action. Not to mention that Sharif himself admitted that IUC were in contact with US. I am not blaming US here. I am just pointing out the truth!
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musika man
- SomaliNet Super
- Posts: 5661
- Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:05 am
[quote="SomeGuy"]Eyes-only,
"you are still young, innocent and naive. You hardly know how the world works or who gets what(politics). Not to mention, you lost reality on the ground. What negotiation you are talking about?. IUC lost hands down. Thus, there is nothing there to be negotiated here. For that matter plus others, i say salaama to you!. It is because ain't much time to spare!"
buddy wrong topic, eyes aint here. but good to have you on board.
Musica,
Right on budy. US never rewards Islamic moderate nor any lost side ever. Uncle Sam take care of his loyal foot soldiers. I am not blaming a Uncle Sam a bit here. I am just being honest, here.
Mad Mac,
You disappoint me budy. Sooner or later the secret will be out. And you shouldn't playing stupid here. Sheikh Sharif was insider. Weeks before his surender, US leaked that High official IUC member was caught by Kenyan police. It is was lies, Sharif was in the hands of US at the border. Not to mention, US was suggesting negotiating with IUC when all IUC official were missing in action. Not to mention that Sharif himself admitted that IUC were in contact with US. I am not blaming US here. I am just pointing out the truth![/quote]
mad mac wants him back because he knows he was smuggled from somalia to kenya by the special american forces. 10 days before he was announced captured, smuggled in or handed himself, the american ambassador was singing his praises and made waves to be included in the tfg government. 008 sheikh sharif bond is coming to hamar like a superstar, and the captured fighters of the hutu courts were sent in shackles to somalia like guantanamo prisoners.
Mohamed Abdi Farah
(SomaliNet)
” U.S. Ambassador Michael Ranneberger has repeatedly said Ahmed is a moderate Islamic leader who should be part of a national reconciliation process in Somalia.”
http://www.somalinet.com/news/world/Somalia/6892
"you are still young, innocent and naive. You hardly know how the world works or who gets what(politics). Not to mention, you lost reality on the ground. What negotiation you are talking about?. IUC lost hands down. Thus, there is nothing there to be negotiated here. For that matter plus others, i say salaama to you!. It is because ain't much time to spare!"
buddy wrong topic, eyes aint here. but good to have you on board.
Musica,
Right on budy. US never rewards Islamic moderate nor any lost side ever. Uncle Sam take care of his loyal foot soldiers. I am not blaming a Uncle Sam a bit here. I am just being honest, here.
Mad Mac,
You disappoint me budy. Sooner or later the secret will be out. And you shouldn't playing stupid here. Sheikh Sharif was insider. Weeks before his surender, US leaked that High official IUC member was caught by Kenyan police. It is was lies, Sharif was in the hands of US at the border. Not to mention, US was suggesting negotiating with IUC when all IUC official were missing in action. Not to mention that Sharif himself admitted that IUC were in contact with US. I am not blaming US here. I am just pointing out the truth![/quote]
mad mac wants him back because he knows he was smuggled from somalia to kenya by the special american forces. 10 days before he was announced captured, smuggled in or handed himself, the american ambassador was singing his praises and made waves to be included in the tfg government. 008 sheikh sharif bond is coming to hamar like a superstar, and the captured fighters of the hutu courts were sent in shackles to somalia like guantanamo prisoners.
Mohamed Abdi Farah
(SomaliNet)
” U.S. Ambassador Michael Ranneberger has repeatedly said Ahmed is a moderate Islamic leader who should be part of a national reconciliation process in Somalia.”
http://www.somalinet.com/news/world/Somalia/6892
Last edited by musika man on Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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musika man
- SomaliNet Super
- Posts: 5661
- Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:05 am
[quote="Gedo_Boy"]waryaa, musika
war Sh. Shariif maxaa ku dabo digay........isn't he the guy who liberated the homes of the Shaanshis who were evicted by Mooryaans[/quote]
sheikh gedo, i like sheikf sharif, and he aint no hero of mine. he tried to heal the shaanshi huge wound which required a surgery with first aid, if you know what i mean. no, he was not a bad guy, power rested with aweis and indhocadde the two people who were shaanshi oppressors. i nominated him to be given the governorship of puntland, so abgals in hamar will have more confidence in the tfg because they resent puntlanders giving orders and fighting in hamar. most tfg soldiers are puntlanders. check my puntland post.
am only telling how i see.
war Sh. Shariif maxaa ku dabo digay........isn't he the guy who liberated the homes of the Shaanshis who were evicted by Mooryaans[/quote]
sheikh gedo, i like sheikf sharif, and he aint no hero of mine. he tried to heal the shaanshi huge wound which required a surgery with first aid, if you know what i mean. no, he was not a bad guy, power rested with aweis and indhocadde the two people who were shaanshi oppressors. i nominated him to be given the governorship of puntland, so abgals in hamar will have more confidence in the tfg because they resent puntlanders giving orders and fighting in hamar. most tfg soldiers are puntlanders. check my puntland post.
am only telling how i see.Maskin_man
Who you think you can fool , You little bastard Maroor-Xaar aka DofarSade , why don't You just say Indhocade sodomise my People instead of hidding behind Shaanshi 
YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN
Sheikh Sharif has more respect and prestige in somali community than Your whole Doofar Ilko-Yar the dead Afwayne and Huuraale compine .
.
Who you think you can fool , You little bastard
Maroor-Xaar aka DofarSade , why don't You just say Indhocade sodomise my People instead of hidding behind Shaanshi YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN Sheikh Sharif has more respect and prestige in somali community than Your whole Doofar Ilko-Yar the dead Afwayne and Huuraale compine .
.
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musika man
- SomaliNet Super
- Posts: 5661
- Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:05 am
[quote="Qorane"]Maskin_man
Who you think you can fool , You little bastard Maroor-Xaar aka DofarSade , why don't You just say Indhocade sodomise my People instead of hidding behind Shaanshi YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN
Sheikh Sharif has more respect and prestige in somali community than Your whole Doofar Ilko-Yar the dead Afwayne and Huuraale compine .
.[/quote]
qorane
listen fool, i stated many times about indhocadde's atrocities. when sheikh sharif joined the ranks of indhocadde and awis, i had two different views about the man. when i realized he was only a poster boi for indhocadde and aweis, i lost hope for his real politic, only helping his hamar people and ignroing the oppression in shabeele hoose. he never harmed us, and i understand he was only a poster boi who wanted to help his own people. but he aint a somali hero, not mine. bring a counter argument why the americans are so happy promoting him. remember america was the enemy of the hutu courts. the americans bombed and hunted them like a hunting game animals. his fellow fighters were brought to hamar in shakles like prisoners in guantanamo. if he comes back as a vip, and joins the tfg, you have to question many things. do you think my uncle hiiraale will make me governor of kismayo?
Who you think you can fool , You little bastard
Maroor-Xaar aka DofarSade , why don't You just say Indhocade sodomise my People instead of hidding behind Shaanshi YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN Sheikh Sharif has more respect and prestige in somali community than Your whole Doofar Ilko-Yar the dead Afwayne and Huuraale compine .
.[/quote]
qorane
listen fool, i stated many times about indhocadde's atrocities. when sheikh sharif joined the ranks of indhocadde and awis, i had two different views about the man. when i realized he was only a poster boi for indhocadde and aweis, i lost hope for his real politic, only helping his hamar people and ignroing the oppression in shabeele hoose. he never harmed us, and i understand he was only a poster boi who wanted to help his own people. but he aint a somali hero, not mine. bring a counter argument why the americans are so happy promoting him. remember america was the enemy of the hutu courts. the americans bombed and hunted them like a hunting game animals. his fellow fighters were brought to hamar in shakles like prisoners in guantanamo. if he comes back as a vip, and joins the tfg, you have to question many things. do you think my uncle hiiraale will make me governor of kismayo?
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musika man
- SomaliNet Super
- Posts: 5661
- Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:05 am
some guy and mad mac check this out. am telling you this dude is smart and gave indhocadde and aweis away. he knew they will get rid of him. let him join the tfg and see if he can change them.
"The second highest member of SomaliaÂ’s defeated Islamist forces, a man described as a moderate Muslim and potential peacemaker, surrendered to Kenyan authorities and is staying at a hotel in Nairobi, Western diplomats and Somali officials said today.
"He decided to come to Kenya only after getting a guarantee from the Americans that he would not be deported,” said one western diplomat in Nairobi who spoke on the condition of anonymity. He’s been here a week.
Over the weekend, the BBC aired an interview with Michael E. Ranneberger, the American ambassador to Kenya, in which Mr. Ranneberger said, "We certainly have made clear to the T.F.G.,” — Somalia’s transitional federal government, — “that it needs to talk to all elements and that includes people such as, for example, Sheikh Sharif."
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/22/world ... malia.html
fiiltire buddy filter the news. did you hear the rumour from costa?
"The second highest member of SomaliaÂ’s defeated Islamist forces, a man described as a moderate Muslim and potential peacemaker, surrendered to Kenyan authorities and is staying at a hotel in Nairobi, Western diplomats and Somali officials said today.
"He decided to come to Kenya only after getting a guarantee from the Americans that he would not be deported,” said one western diplomat in Nairobi who spoke on the condition of anonymity. He’s been here a week.
Over the weekend, the BBC aired an interview with Michael E. Ranneberger, the American ambassador to Kenya, in which Mr. Ranneberger said, "We certainly have made clear to the T.F.G.,” — Somalia’s transitional federal government, — “that it needs to talk to all elements and that includes people such as, for example, Sheikh Sharif."
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/22/world ... malia.html
fiiltire buddy filter the news. did you hear the rumour from costa?
musika-maroorXaar
do you think my uncle hiiraale will make me governor of kismayo?
jack a.s.s than why are you pretending as ashaanshi Victim ? the truth is majority of your XaarSade people went NUT after Huraale was chased out of Kismayo all Somalis know about that , so keep yourself about your naive delusion of bad marriage between Indhocade and your People . by the way most of the fighters kenya sent to Xamar were OLF and they were handed over to the Tigree . and watchout Sheikh Sharif will be back to Mogadishu on TOP without licking Tigree d.i.ck .
,
do you think my uncle hiiraale will make me governor of kismayo?
jack a.s.s than why are you pretending as ashaanshi Victim ? the truth is majority of your XaarSade people went NUT after Huraale was chased out of Kismayo all Somalis know about that , so keep yourself about your naive delusion of bad marriage between Indhocade and your People . by the way most of the fighters kenya sent to Xamar were OLF and they were handed over to the Tigree . and watchout Sheikh Sharif will be back to Mogadishu on TOP without licking Tigree d.i.ck .
,
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musika man
- SomaliNet Super
- Posts: 5661
- Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:05 am
[quote="Qorane"]musika-maroorXaar
do you think my uncle hiiraale will make me governor of kismayo?
jack a.s.s than why are you pretending as ashaanshi Victim ? the truth is majority of your XaarSade people went NUT after Huraale was chased out of Kismayo all Somalis know about that , so keep yourself about your naive delusion of bad marriage between Indhocade and your People . by the way most of the fighters kenya sent to Xamar were OLF and they were handed over to the Tigree . and watchout Sheikh Sharif will be back to Mogadishu on TOP without licking Tigree d.i.ck .
,[/quote]
qorane do you want to work for my uncle hiiraale. contact costa, he is his european agent. we dicussing a theory and what did you add? sheikh sharif coming to hamar and making it peace. i agree with you sheikh sharif will be back, to cool down his own people. at what other prize for the americans. to gather intelligence on or capture ayro and his friends on america's behalf, all these things can happen now. buddy ass kissing is a pyrmid. america, tigre. tfg. the americans run the show and is in that order. this can be a great coup for peace somalia, if sheikh sharif can bring back peace to hamar and challenge the tfg in the ballot box and stand for parliament and president. if he can do all these things, sheikh sharif, fraser and ambassador ranneberger should be all awarded the noble peace prize for 2007. down darod, viva haiwiye.
do you think my uncle hiiraale will make me governor of kismayo?
jack a.s.s than why are you pretending as ashaanshi Victim ? the truth is majority of your XaarSade people went NUT after Huraale was chased out of Kismayo all Somalis know about that , so keep yourself about your naive delusion of bad marriage between Indhocade and your People . by the way most of the fighters kenya sent to Xamar were OLF and they were handed over to the Tigree . and watchout Sheikh Sharif will be back to Mogadishu on TOP without licking Tigree d.i.ck .
,[/quote]
qorane do you want to work for my uncle hiiraale.
contact costa, he is his european agent. we dicussing a theory and what did you add? sheikh sharif coming to hamar and making it peace. i agree with you sheikh sharif will be back, to cool down his own people. at what other prize for the americans. to gather intelligence on or capture ayro and his friends on america's behalf, all these things can happen now. buddy ass kissing is a pyrmid. america, tigre. tfg. the americans run the show and is in that order. this can be a great coup for peace somalia, if sheikh sharif can bring back peace to hamar and challenge the tfg in the ballot box and stand for parliament and president. if he can do all these things, sheikh sharif, fraser and ambassador ranneberger should be all awarded the noble peace prize for 2007. down darod, viva haiwiye. -
Steeler [Crawler2]
- SomaliNet Super
- Posts: 12405
- Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2001 7:00 pm
High
Taken from Wikpedia:
"The earliest recorded use of khat medically is believed to be within the New Testament. [4] The ancient Egyptians considered the khat plant a "divine food" which was capable of releasing humanity's divinity. The Egyptians used the plant for more than its stimulating effects. They used it as a metamorphic process and transcended into "apotheosis." Thus, the human being was made god-like."
As you can see, there is every reason to believe that people were chewing khat at the time of the Prophet. I am sure it was not an popular as today, but it was also unknown.
Makruh, in an Islamic context, means that it is neither permitted nor forbidden. On some topics, Mohammed simply failed to give guidance. SOME scholars will issue opinions (like the one you posted) which are EXTRAPOLATIONS. That is, they are reasoned based on what is known. THIS IS NOT SHARI'A. There reasoning could be flawed. Furthermore, if punishments are not specified, then those punishments are not Shari'a. Thus, if a punishment is decreed by "scholars" for not growing a beard, by definition, that punishment is not Shari'a, it is man made. If Mohamed, and by your extrapolation therefore God, wanted an earthly punishment for the consumption of Khat or the failure to grow a beard, he would have specified it. As you yourself have said, Islam is a COMPLETE system. If a punishment is not specified, then "scholars" can not designate one. And if something is not specifically mentioned by Mohammed, then that something is, by Islamic definition, Makruh.
Taken from Wikpedia:
"The earliest recorded use of khat medically is believed to be within the New Testament. [4] The ancient Egyptians considered the khat plant a "divine food" which was capable of releasing humanity's divinity. The Egyptians used the plant for more than its stimulating effects. They used it as a metamorphic process and transcended into "apotheosis." Thus, the human being was made god-like."
As you can see, there is every reason to believe that people were chewing khat at the time of the Prophet. I am sure it was not an popular as today, but it was also unknown.
Makruh, in an Islamic context, means that it is neither permitted nor forbidden. On some topics, Mohammed simply failed to give guidance. SOME scholars will issue opinions (like the one you posted) which are EXTRAPOLATIONS. That is, they are reasoned based on what is known. THIS IS NOT SHARI'A. There reasoning could be flawed. Furthermore, if punishments are not specified, then those punishments are not Shari'a. Thus, if a punishment is decreed by "scholars" for not growing a beard, by definition, that punishment is not Shari'a, it is man made. If Mohamed, and by your extrapolation therefore God, wanted an earthly punishment for the consumption of Khat or the failure to grow a beard, he would have specified it. As you yourself have said, Islam is a COMPLETE system. If a punishment is not specified, then "scholars" can not designate one. And if something is not specifically mentioned by Mohammed, then that something is, by Islamic definition, Makruh.
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