The winner of The New Hamitic Continent's Naming Contest

[Jabuutawi]

Re: Samaale, he could very well have been Dir. Just like few hundred Spanish Conquistador pacified entire continent (South America) or the Philippines and injected their genes, yeah, it is statistically possible that Samaale was indeed Dir.

[zumaale]

Re: Samaale, he could very well have been Dir. Just like few hundred Spanish Conquistador pacified entire continent (South America) or the Philippines and injected their genes, yeah, it is statistically possible that Samaale was indeed Dir.

It ain't even open to debate. Even Itrah's own clan elders have always emphasised the ancestral links between Samaale and Dir. Like I said a bunch of 'Oromos' adopted our Samaale identity.

[Itrah]

Funny you say something is 'not my expertise' and then follow in making an error yourself.

The Garre do not speak an Oromo dialect, at least not what is considered their own dialect.

They use Oromo as a lingua franca of some sorts as they live near some Oromos, but their own dialect is considered part of the Somaloid linguistic relm.

http://rogerblench.info/Language/Afroas ... AALIST.pdf

Saying that a lineage that is probably 75% of all Somalis is less likely to be the marker of Samaale over a lineage that is 20-30% is grasping at straws. Clear bias showing here. Any neutral scientist would favor V32 over T in this case.

[Jabuutawi]

"Favor" is not a scientific conclusion but a hollow term in this context. 75%, inclusive of Hawiye? I doubt it.

[Itrah]

"Favor" is not a scientific conclusion but a hollow term in this context. 75%, inclusive of Hawiye? I doubt it.

There have been a couple sizable studies on Somali refugees living Norway, Sweden, and Denmark with sample sizes in the 100 to 200 range. E-V32 is almost always above 75%. Hands down, the most common. Even the Plaster et al. study using Ethiopian Somalis had E-V32 in the 70% range, while Dirs were included.

Also, the vast majority of Somalis on 23andMe are E1b1b1a1b as well.

There's no way Samaale could have been T1a, the chances are infinitesimally small.

[Jabuutawi]

Let me guess, they hid the column that asked for their clan. I bet dollars to donuts that most of these 200 subjects were non-Dir, non-Hawiye, essentially Darod.

[Itrah]

Let me guess, they hid the column that asked for their clan. I bet dollars to donuts that most of these 200 subjects were non-Dir, non-Hawiye, essentially Darod.

They were random samples taken from refugees from Somalia in Scandinavian asylum centres. There was no clan bias and it is probably fairly representative of the population in Somalia overall.

[zumaale]

Itrah

Check out Gunther Schlee, he is the anthropologist that has done the most research on the Garres. The majority of them speak a variety of the Boran language.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=s2h ... ct&f=false

Furthermore, that study on Garres is not conclusive as the Quranyoow and Tuff have divergent origins. You cannot make a statement on Garres from an incomplete research project that utilised a limited sample. The two sub divisions of Garre inhabit different regions of Kenya and Ethiopia.

Scientists do not determine the nucleus of an ethnic group. The Turkic Bulgars invaded Slavs in the Balkans and ruled as an elite yet the slavs beneath them acquired the Bulgar identity whereas the Bulgars eventually assimilated linguistically among them through marriage and have left little physical traits among them.

Science alone does not offer answers, it must be used in conjunction with History. Somalis have no written history but their oral history is uniform in describing Dirs as being the prototype Somalis.

[Bilis]

You have made assumptions one too many times son.

The Ethiopian Somalis tested could be of any clan as I highlighted. Find a post where I stated that they are Dir?

Well, you did indicate that most of the people tested in Jijiga were E1b1b carriers, while the Dir in Dire Dawa were haplogroup T carriers. Both cities are in Ethiopia.

Yes, I have argued consistently that Darood and Dir appear to belong to two different haplogroups based on current result trends. Nothing controversial about that!

Trombetta's Somalis in Ethiopia suggest otherwise.

Look at my comments on the Djiboutian study, I have repeatedly stated that it cannot be taken for granted that they are necessarily T haplogroup just as in the Ethiopian study.

Agreed. However, it is certainly much more likely that they are haplogroup T carriers than, say, haplogroup A carriers.

No, 'Somalis' are not one people Saaxib from a male ancestral viewpoint. You are closer to a Bantu if you are E1b1b1 than me lineage wise.

Lineage wise means nothing if the overall ancestry is different, which is certainly the case with Bantus.

For example, many Lemba Bantus today carry haplogroup J and even some haplogroup T due to historical admixture with Khaleeji. Their overall ancestry, however, is likewise completely different.

Until, Somali T haplogroup carriers are compared with other T haplogroup carriers like the Lemba were, all else is assumption because no other population in the Horn has so far been shown to possess an overwhelming predominance of haplogroup T.

I believe T was only found in one sample set of Lembas and at moderate frequencies at that. Somali T bearers also mainly carry a particular T1a haplotype that is most common in the Arabian peninsula, not the T1b haplotype found among some Lemba.

We are Somalis Saaxib and y-dna is the ultimate proof of qabil ancestry, maternal ancestry counts for shit among us.

You realize that most of the Southern Egyptians in Trombetta's study have the V12 subclade of haplogroup E1b1b, right (~74%)?



This V12 clade is immediately ancestral to the V32 subclade that is found among Somalis and elsewhere in the Horn.

[Itrah]

Zumaale,

The Beta Israel used to speak an Agaw dialect a couple of hundred years ago, but then switched over to Tigray recently and even more recently to Hebrew.

Does this mean they are not Agaws anymore? No.. not at all, as that is their main ancestral component and still is today.

Same applies to the Garre, whatever language they use nowadays is not representative of their ancestral origin. They are ancestrally Somaloids, not Oromoids. Their Somali specific dialect still exists today, even if it is not used as much.

[Bilis]

I had to come back, albeit for a second .

Billis, you are pushing the envelope a bit too far in suggesting the possibilities other than E1b1b in Djibouti could be, well, Bantu stock. That is a preposterous statement, and you know it brother. Overwhelming probability, in fact, certitude is majority of Djiboutians carry the Y-DNA chromosomal haplogroup T. Haplogroup J, I give you that for the close proximity to what is now referred to as the Arabian peninsula. Though their numbers are negligible in Djibouti.

Wa kaftan sxb, of course. I just threw that in there for a laugh cause I knew Beesha Dhexe would have a heart attack.

It's probably instead mainly haplogroup T, perhaps with some J on the side.

[Jabuutawi]

But that does not answer Samaale question. Your conjecture is as good as mine. I just showed you it is statistically probable Samaale could have been Dir, and you are basing things on absolute terms and disregarding phenomenon, or what statisticians call anomaly . There is no doubt large portion of today's Somalis are E-V32, but that in and of itself does not prove squat about Samaale.

[zumaale]

Bilis are you thick?

The Ethiopian study I was commenting on was the Trombetta one. Those samples could be from any clan as Gode Zone is a mixed clan area like I highlighted before. Read through my posts thoroughly before commenting. I was not referring to Plaster's study.

Secondly, I was not comparing the Somalis to the lemba. I was stating that T haplogroup Somalis should be compared to other T haplogroup carriers like the Lemba were.

Mate, in Somali culture, Abo is all that matters from a lineage perspective.

Egypt, was has that got to do with this debate? I couldn't give a damn how far they link up, I am not a Hamite.

[Itrah]

But that does not answer Samaale question. Your conjecture is as good as mine. I just showed you it is statistically probable Samaale could have been Dir, and you are basing things on absolute terms and disregarding phenomenon, or what statisticians call anomaly . There is no doubt large portion of today's Somalis are E-V32, but that in and of itself does not prove squat about Samaale.

Frequency is associated with evolutionary success. Considering that 'Samaale' is remembered to this day, he must have been a powerful alpha male with many wives. In modern Somalis, E-V32 has been evolutionary more successful than T1a. So the chances are stronger of him belonging to the former than the latter.

[zumaale]

Zumaale,

The Beta Israel used to speak an Agaw dialect a couple of hundred years ago, but then switched over to Tigray recently and even more recently to Hebrew.

Does this mean they are not Agaws anymore? No.. not at all, as that is their main ancestral component and still is today.

Same applies to the Garre, whatever language they use nowadays is not representative of their ancestral origin. They are ancestrally Somaloids, not Oromoids. Their Somali specific dialect still exists today, even if it is not used as much.

Now you are misunderstanding and uttering sheit. I stated that the Garres were Somalis but had come under the influence of the Borans linguistically and culturally. I provided evidence when you insinuated I was coming out with facts from thin air.

I just proved to you how science alone cannot shed light on the origins of a people by using the Bulgar example. Somalis out of their own free will associate the Samaale identity with Dirs and not Darood, however, much you argue. Your own people testify to this.

Please, do not try to argue that the Hallenberg study sheds light on Somali clans because we do not know the clan make up of the individuals tested. To do so would be intellectually bankrupt.