Muslims for Progressive Values

[melo]

Beenaale: You misunderstood me. There is no compulsion in religion. The state however still manages how its citizens conduct in the public realm. The Prophet saws did this very thing. The Jews and Christians were allowed to practice their religion in their private spaces, but in the public space they were expected to abide by Islam's moral and ethical codes. That's all I'm suggesting. To throw all of that in the bin and yell "individual freedom" contradicts the Quran and Sunnah.

[abdisamad3]

Civil liberties as defined by liberalism and not Islam.. Its essentially secularism. He believes the state should not enforce religious values upon its citizens in the public space.

Citizens should be able to abide by what religious doctrine they want. Some dont even wanna be Muslims, then what? Religious minorities and ethnic minorities should be protected and be allowed to live a free life, so how you gonna enforce religious values on people who dont wanna be religious? If someone chose to be Agnostic then he/she has the fundamental right to do so.

Islam does not allow this, if you leave islam then you will become a murtad, and islam teaches us that murtad should be executed,

[Alphanumeric]

Civil liberties as defined by liberalism and not Islam.. Its essentially secularism. He believes the state should not enforce religious values upon its citizens in the public space.

Citizens should be able to abide by what religious doctrine they want. Some dont even wanna be Muslims, then what? Religious minorities and ethnic minorities should be protected and be allowed to live a free life, so how you gonna enforce religious values on people who dont wanna be religious? If someone chose to be Agnostic then he/she has the fundamental right to do so.

Islam does not allow this, if you leave islam then you will become a murtad, and islam teaches us that murtad should be executed,

I once thought the same.

[BlackVelvet]

BV, you need to understand trying to ban sinful activities is an exercise in futility. It would just waste a tremendous amount of the state’s resources and people would still find a way to engage in those activities. Take for example the prohibition movement in the United States, how well did that turn out? The best thing the state can do is to regulate those markets to make sure there is no exploitation and abuse, and other than that let people enjoy what they wish.

So this is not a matter of you drawing the line on a different spot. You don't have a line at all. Kind of scary actually.

Did I not explicitly draw a line at exploitation and abuse?

I was thrown by the rest of the post. I don't see how you would be able to do this given the levels of alcoholism, child abuse, broken families and crimes that are directly linked with the things you wish to allow in your made up country.

One last thing, what about incest? If 2 people where caught and admitted to it what would you do as sole governor?

[Nanees]

When the prophet pbuh was ruler of Madina he judged he Jews and non Muslims accordingg to the laws of their people. But now that the Muslims have become citizens and refugees in the lands of non Muslims they demand the judgement of non Muslims based on Islam. How many of you even took A second to study how non Muslims were treated in the golden age of Islam before releasing all these fatwas) smh. There's a fine line between dawah and forebearance as well as a fine line between pride in ur deen and arrogance.

[abdisamad3]

When the prophet pbuh was ruler of Madina he judged he Jews and non Muslims accordingg to the laws of their people. But now that the Muslims have become citizens and refugees in the lands of non Muslims they demand the judgement of non Muslims based on Islam. How many of you even took A second to study how non Muslims were treated in the golden age of Islam before releasing all these fatwas) smh. There's a fine line between dawah and forebearance as well as a fine line between pride in ur deen and arrogance.

in all my post's I was not demanding muslim laws to be implemented in non islamic countries,,,I also don't mind non muslims living in muslim countries or building a church to worship jesus, what I'am against is people like uncle ruckus suggesting to change islam so it will fit well with gay marriage's making porn movies drinking alcohol and,having wecel kids and so on,

[Nanees]

don't agree with homosexuality, obviously, but you all need to wake up because it's the same people bombing Muslims that are trying to outlaw homosexuality, in the eyes of consrvatives all minorities are the same. As soon as they're done restricting the rights or gays whose rights do you think will be the next to go? This isn't the fightof Muslims, it's kaafirs against kaafrs so why are Muslims arguing amongst themselves taking sides?????

[Alphanumeric]

When the prophet pbuh was ruler of Madina he judged he Jews and non Muslims accordingg to the laws of their people. But now that the Muslims have become citizens and refugees in the lands of non Muslims they demand the judgement of non Muslims based on Islam. How many of you even took A second to study how non Muslims were treated in the golden age of Islam before releasing all these fatwas) smh. There's a fine line between dawah and forebearance as well as a fine line between pride in ur deen and arrogance.

Unnecessary sentence.
Contradictory sentence.
Straight up insulting.

Well done. All in one go.

[abdisamad3]

don't agree with homosexuality, obviously, but you all need to wake up because it's the same people bombing Muslims that are trying to outlaw homosexuality, in the eyes of consrvatives all minorities are the same. As soon as they're done restricting the rights or gays whose rights do you think will be the next to go? This isn't the fightof Muslims, it's kaafirs against kaafrs so why are Muslims arguing amongst themselves taking sides?????

I think your confused, and your post doesn't make any sense

[Nanees]

When the prophet pbuh was ruler of Madina he judged he Jews and non Muslims accordingg to the laws of their people. But now that the Muslims have become citizens and refugees in the lands of non Muslims they demand the judgement of non Muslims based on Islam. How many of you even took A second to study how non Muslims were treated in the golden age of Islam before releasing all these fatwas) smh. There's a fine line between dawah and forebearance as well as a fine line between pride in ur deen and arrogance.

Unnecessary sentence.
Contradictory sentence.
Straight up insulting.

Well done. All in one go.

why are you getting ur panties in a bunch? This wasn't even directed at you -_- It seems necessary to remind those looking to limit the rights of a minority, based on their religion, in a nation whose openminsedness allowed them to practice their religion in the first place.

How is that a contradictory sentence?!?!???

Again don't get u panties in a bunch. Muslims need to stop being emotional and Start being logical.

[Alphanumeric]

Lol awesome.

[Nanees]

I swear Muslim men pms when it comes to the religion.

[abdisamad3]

alpha is nanees a non muslim?

[Beenaale_No1]

I swear Muslim men pms when it comes to the religion.

Ive noticed when it comes to religion it is mostly men who want to impose religious values on others. I rarely see women argue who want to enforce religious values on other citizens.

[bareento]

Progressive values depend on the objective situation of a particular society : for instance for saudi liberals women's right to drive car is a progressive value to fight for.But for us, nromal human beings, its somthing obvious.

The problem arises when there is contradiction between Sharicaa and the general accepted norms.
For example according to Sharica cutting off limbs is a way of punishment, but in the 21st century people think its barbaric;
probably back few centuries ago cutting only limbs was progressive.
When u have such direct contradiction u have to take decison: or u use your intelligence (that God gave u) and u say no I am against cutting limbs;
or u folow the texts and and admit cutting limbs is the solution! there is no blending....

B.

PS I havent read the whole debate, I am only reacting to the title