SomaliNet Forums

jalaaludin5 wrote:What is so ofensive about stating simple facts that somalis are different thsn bantus?

bantus are also different from the masai. italians are also different from the french. etc.

the issue isn't about difference. the issue is about RACISM. the only reason you are quick to want to differentiate yourself from the bantu is because the world we occupy is dominated by whites and black are at the bottom. and there is a race from the bottom.

its funny how there are never any conversations about italians being different races than the northern europeans. eventhough they have many "differences" as well.

TheMailMan wrote:MaliPrince, I'll grant you that Somalis are slightly more closely related to Bantus than we are to some Mongolian or Cherokee, but that doesn't mean shit.

please be more accurate. Somalis are more closesly related to the Bantu than just about EVERYONE outside of Africa. Europeans, Arabs, Indians, Chinese, etc. The only non-Africans who we share some ancestry with are the few southern europeans who have E1b1b (most likely transfered from North Africa). Thats it. And I know you love to mention the Berbers. I'm guessing its because they largely look white now. But just remember, we only share y-DNA (from the father) with them. Their mtDNA (which is maternal) is largely European. Very different from us and the other cushitic speakers whose mtDNA is half African and half Eurasian. While the Bantu mtDNA is almost all African.

So no its not just some Mongolians or Cherokee, You are more closesly related to the Bantu than the Arabs. You are more closesly related to the Bantu than almost all Europeans. You are more closesly related to the Bantu than all Asians. and so on. You can say that doesn't mean shit. But don't make the mistake of thinking there are many other groups you are closer to than the Bantu. Pretty much everyone inside Africa is closer to you than almost everyone outside of Africa. Learn to accept it.

TheMailMan wrote:And don't come to me with that garbage, "There is one race, it's called the human race" balaayo. I don't wanna hear that. There are very real, significant differences which separate Somalis from Madows, yet you refuse to see this. And you keep talking about "30,000 years ago" without realizing how long ago that was looool. That was WAYYY before the last Ice Age, yet you wanna come to me with that 30,000 years ago nonsense. That was even before the existence of White and Asian people as a distinct group. Yeah, it was THAT long ago.

there are very real and significant differences between Chinese and Indonesians as well. same with the Sicilians and Swedish. if all you look for are differences, you will find them. you could also do the reverse and look for similarities. I choose the latter since its more constructive.

on the issue of 30,000 years ago. Yes that was a very long time ago. But remember I'm not the one that brought genetics into the conversation. YOU DID. I was simply responding to your FALLICIOUS argument that there are no genetic links between Somalis and the Bantu. I responded to that by showing you that we do share a common ancestor. And yes he lived around 30,000 years. But still. That is closer than 60,000 years ago. Which is how far back you need to go to find a common ancestor between Somalis and Arabs, Somalis and Europeans, Somalis and Asians, and just about anyone not from Africa.

TheMailMan wrote:KnowThyself:

You are absolutely in denial here. Somali boys who have no business being involved in "gangster culture" are getting involved in it, sometimes with fatal consequences and you want to dismiss this as nothing more than "the environment"....I know plenty of poor Chinese and poor Indians who don't behave this way at all. In fact, Chinatown was often the poorest, least developed part of a city. But the Chinese educated themselves, stayed outta trouble, and became prosperous in America/Canada. SOMALIS on the other hand, suffer from an identity crisis and some of them consider themselves as Madow. So when they see Madows behave in a degenerate and savage manner, they see it and imitate it. It doesn't have to be like this. We Somalis can be like THIS:
reality

warya we destroyed waadanken on qabiil and other stupidity. there was a fukkin famine caused a few years ago because of idiots like the Shabaab.

stop blaming "gangster culture" for the destructive nature of Somalis in the west. Somalis are just natural degenarates and savages. no matter where they go they'll find a way to fukk things up.

MaliPrince wrote:there are very real and significant differences between Chinese and Indonesians as well. same with the Sicilians and Swedish. if all you look for are differences, you will find them. you could also do the reverse and look for similarities. I choose the latter since its more constructive.

on the issue of 30,000 years ago. Yes that was a very long time ago. But remember I'm not the one that brought genetics into the conversation. YOU DID. I was simply responding to your FALLICIOUS argument that there are no genetic links between Somalis and the Bantu. I responded to that by showing you that we do share a common ancestor. And yes he lived around 30,000 years. But still. That is closer than 60,000 years ago. Which is how far back you need to go to find a common ancestor between Somalis and Arabs, Somalis and Europeans, Somalis and Asians, and just about anyone not from Africa.

Again, not all Somalis are E1b1b. A large portion ranging from 10% up to 40% depending on region belong to T, which is mainly West Asian.

And even Somalis with E1b1b may carry Eurasian maternal lineages like R0a or N1a etc. So, their last common ancestor is NOT always 60,000 years ago just because they have E1b1b.

Lastly, haplogroups have NOTHING to do with your last common ancestor with a person. You can be 75% Chinese and 25% Somali yet carry O2 on the male side and B2 on the female side. Your Somali ancestry would be hidden based on haplogroups, yet genetically you would still be 25% Somali as it would show up on your autosomal chromosomes.

PS. Here's a three dimensional global genetics plot:
http://www.scs.illinois.edu/~mcdonald/PCA84pops.html
The difference between North Euros and South Euros is nothing compared to Ethiopians/Somalis and Bantus.

really? lol 17 pages isn't enough?

People still arguing.

Sometimes the silence is gold

Itrah wrote:

MaliPrince wrote:there are very real and significant differences between Chinese and Indonesians as well. same with the Sicilians and Swedish. if all you look for are differences, you will find them. you could also do the reverse and look for similarities. I choose the latter since its more constructive.

on the issue of 30,000 years ago. Yes that was a very long time ago. But remember I'm not the one that brought genetics into the conversation. YOU DID. I was simply responding to your FALLICIOUS argument that there are no genetic links between Somalis and the Bantu. I responded to that by showing you that we do share a common ancestor. And yes he lived around 30,000 years. But still. That is closer than 60,000 years ago. Which is how far back you need to go to find a common ancestor between Somalis and Arabs, Somalis and Europeans, Somalis and Asians, and just about anyone not from Africa.

Again, not all Somalis are E1b1b. A large portion ranging from 10% up to 40% depending on region belong to T, which is mainly West Asian.

And even Somalis with E1b1b may carry Eurasian maternal lineages like R0a or N1a etc. So, their last common ancestor is NOT always 60,000 years ago just because they have E1b1b.

Lastly, haplogroups have NOTHING to do with your last common ancestor with a person. You can be 75% Chinese and 25% Somali yet carry O2 on the male side and B2 on the female side. Your Somali ancestry would be hidden based on haplogroups, yet genetically you would still be 25% Somali as it would show up on your autosomal chromosomes.

PS. Here's a three dimensional global genetics plot:
http://www.scs.illinois.edu/~mcdonald/PCA84pops.html
The difference between North Euros and South Euros is nothing compared to Ethiopians/Somalis and Bantus.

True. But that doesn't mean Somalis are more closesly related to Europeans than the Bantu. Its just that diversity is greater INSIDE of Africa among Africans than it is among non-Africans. My main point still holds true. Somalis are more closesly related genetically to the Bantu than almost any group of humans OUTSIDE OF AFRICA.

From your astute points, it looks as though unlike TheMailMan, you seem to have studied this issue a little more than just reading one wikipedia page. As a result, I'm sure you also know that y-DNA or mtDNA don't tell you as much about your complete ancestry as autosomal DNA does. And when we look at the autosomal DNA analysis, it comes out that on average Somalis are genetically about 60-65% African and 35-40% Eurasian. The Habesha are a little more mixed with about 50% Eurasian ancestry. While the Maasai and Samburu (probably getting it from us) are about 20% Eurasian. The Bantu and Nilotic tribes like the Dinka, on the other hand, have very little Eurasian ancestry (less than 5%).

Thus, the reason there is a greater genetic difference between Somalis and Bantus is because Somalis carry significant non-African ancestry compared to the Bantu while North/South Europeans carry very little African ancestry each. However, when you look just at the AFRICAN ancestry of Somalis and compare it to the AFRICAN ancestry of the Bantu, you will find that those two groups are more closesly related to one another than they would be to any other group outside Africa.

TheMailMan wrote:Somalis are a Horn African people related closely to Berbers, Oromos, and Afars. We fall under the genetic haplogroup E1B1B1 and T. Our skull shape, SNP markers, facial structure, and other features are completely different from the Bantus. We are far more closely related (genetically and anthropologically) to the Algerian and Moroccan Berbers, the Ethiopian Oromos and the Ethiopian Afars then we are to these Madow people. It's just that simple.

And BeyondQabil wants to deny this, although I have TONS of scientific data proving that Somalis are a distinct group

LOL. Why the facination with the Berbers? They're maternal ancestry is largely European. We only share the male side of the ancestry with them. If you want to name a non-cushitic group who we are MOST closesly related to, then you should be naming the Maasai and Samburu. I've noticed you continually leave them out eventhough they are largely the same as us genetically BOTH y-DNA and mtDNA. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maasai_people

why are you ignoring the Maasai so much? could it be because they are universally considered black while many berbers are not?

you seem to be driven to try and manipulate the genetic data to try make it seem as though Somalis have more in common with the largely non-black populations of north africa than with their black neighbours south of the sahara. when that is not true at all. the Maasai and Samburu are the closest non-cushitic groups to the Somali both in terms of phenotype and genotype. the berbers don't look like us the way the Maasai and Samburu do.











In addition to genetics and phenotype, they are culturally more similar to us because they are also nomadic people who herd goats, camels, and cattle. They also practice circumcision like us. Pretty much the only thing that differentiates them from us is that they are not muslim and they speak a Nilotic language rather than Cushitic one.

Rambie wrote:People still arguing.

Sometimes the silence is gold

Because the longer your essays of your opinions on Snet and the more your back-and-forth arguments are the more they'll effect and change the course of history on the ground. Get on with the program, mate. Meeshu waa tartan ee yaanan lagaa badin ninyahow.

Why is there such as fascination with where Somalis originated, honestly why does it matter so much? At the end of the day everyone came from the same place. I never used to care about this kind of topic but I had some debate with African friends about this to. They were trying to say we were mixed with Arabs and that's why we looked so different. Lol seriously though its the kind of topic which does scream inferiority complex. We are African, we originated in Africa, our culture is African. We ain't Arab, European, Arab Africans. We might not share same genes, looks or whatever but our asses belong in that continent nowhere outside it.

mrdegdeg the problem is they can't accept that Africa is a diverse place and they attribute slight differences in aesthetic to "admixture". That's what screams identity crisis, intolerance and insecurity. Not only for Somalis but for those making these erroneous claims about their progeny and look.

Instead of refuting my points, this MaliPrince character is doing nothing more than repeating his old arguments, even when Itrah and I give scientific evidence proving that Somalis are completely different genetically from the Bantus or the West African tribes.

MaliPrince is desperate to include Somalis as "Bantu" and he's doing his best to include our people amongst them. Audhubilah. Somalis have been indigenous to their territory for thousands of years, and our DNA, anthropological evidence, and architectural evidence proves it.

He's desperately trying to include Somalis with some Ugandan Bantus, and this would make any Somali or Ugandan laugh at such an assertion. Read what was posted in the previous threads. MaliPrince is simply repeating himself and he's just hoping that if this conversation goes long enough, he can confuse us long enough to keep the charade going.

Be objective for once. Have some shame.

And BTW, this MaliPrince guy just LOVES to cite the Maasai as an "example" of how Somalis are related to Madows. He's being knowingly manipulative....since the Maasai are most definitely mixed with Somali and Oromos.

That is why when you look at a Maasai man, he often resembles Somalis in many aspects, and this is because of their Cushitic admixture. But you conveniently mentioned that part out. The existence of the Maasai prove my point even more thoroughly, that we Somalis are completely distinct and do not fall under the same category as a Bantu. I personally did a DNA test not too long ago, and I have zero Bantu DNA. Zero Bantu DNA. And the vast majority of those who live in Somalia either carry the E1B1B1 genetic haplogroup or the T haplogroup.

Itrah wrote:

MaliPrince wrote:there are very real and significant differences between Chinese and Indonesians as well. same with the Sicilians and Swedish. if all you look for are differences, you will find them. you could also do the reverse and look for similarities. I choose the latter since its more constructive.

on the issue of 30,000 years ago. Yes that was a very long time ago. But remember I'm not the one that brought genetics into the conversation. YOU DID. I was simply responding to your FALLICIOUS argument that there are no genetic links between Somalis and the Bantu. I responded to that by showing you that we do share a common ancestor. And yes he lived around 30,000 years. But still. That is closer than 60,000 years ago. Which is how far back you need to go to find a common ancestor between Somalis and Arabs, Somalis and Europeans, Somalis and Asians, and just about anyone not from Africa.

Again, not all Somalis are E1b1b. A large portion ranging from 10% up to 40% depending on region belong to T, which is mainly West Asian.

And even Somalis with E1b1b may carry Eurasian maternal lineages like R0a or N1a etc. So, their last common ancestor is NOT always 60,000 years ago just because they have E1b1b.

Lastly, haplogroups have NOTHING to do with your last common ancestor with a person. You can be 75% Chinese and 25% Somali yet carry O2 on the male side and B2 on the female side. Your Somali ancestry would be hidden based on haplogroups, yet genetically you would still be 25% Somali as it would show up on your autosomal chromosomes.

PS. Here's a three dimensional global genetics plot:
http://www.scs.illinois.edu/~mcdonald/PCA84pops.html
The difference between North Euros and South Euros is nothing compared to Ethiopians/Somalis and Bantus.

That's exactly what I'm saying saaxib. The difference between an Italian and a Norwegian is minimal. The difference between a Vietnamese and a Korean is minimal.

But the difference between a Somali and a Bantu is enormous. We Somalis are FAR MORE closely related to Ethiopians, but yet for some reason "MaliPrince" is invested in trying to group Somalis in with Bantus by any means necessary, thereby erasing our very real differences with them.

We don't even come under the same umbrella as the Bantus. The Maasai people in Kenya look different simply because they're mixed with Somali. Yet you choose to ignore that. In fact, the existence of the Maasai prove my point even more; that the Somalis are very different from these Bantu people.

mrdegdeg wrote:Why is there such as fascination with where Somalis originated, honestly why does it matter so much? At the end of the day everyone came from the same place. I never used to care about this kind of topic but I had some debate with African friends about this to. They were trying to say we were mixed with Arabs and that's why we looked so different. Lol seriously though its the kind of topic which does scream inferiority complex. We are African, we originated in Africa, our culture is African. We ain't Arab, European, Arab Africans. We might not share same genes, looks or whatever but our asses belong in that continent nowhere outside it.

I know bro, I totally and completely agree with you. We are Somalis and Somalis are Africans. But that doesn't mean we have anything to do with the West Africans or Southern African Bantus.

Africa is a vast continent, and it's larger than the United States, China, and Brazil COMBINED. Just because we Somalis share a continent with the Bantus, it means nothing.

We are African, yes. We are indigenous to the land, yes. But we aren't in the same race as the Bantus, and we are in no way related to them either. We are Somalis.