White people are so stupid

[Koronto77]

Its about the thrill of doing something out of the norm and establishing noteriety in the process. Their mere mention in the NY Times has opened the door to many social clubs and a wealth of opportunities than most of us will ever see. These people don't do these things without a concise plan at hand, that's the difference.

[James Dahl]

war, genocide, and slavery is thinking out side the box to you

They War, genocide, and slavery they led only became possible because they adopted technological advantage over the rest of the primitive races. Don't question the war, genocide, and slavery, question why the victims got victimized. What led them to be sacrificial lambs over the alter?

They couldn't touch the muslims with all their advances, it is all a mirage. We're under their feet now cause some muslims we're decieved to dethrone the ottomans. It is only our selfishness that has caused us to be third rate.

Actually the Islamic Empire at it's height was an innovative and scientific minded empire, which produced some of the best mathematics and chemistry discoveries in history. Distillation, calculus and the base 10 number system we all owe to this period.

For various reasons the society ossified and became extremely conservative and against change of any sort, and this is what brought down the Ottomans and especially the Arab led Empire. Muslim empires stopped advancing and changing and the previously backwards and savage Europeans started to advance and change, and overtook the Islamic civilization around 1700 and kept on going right into the modern era.

Ironically, those who hearken back to the glory days of the Islamic Empire want to be even MORE against change and innovation, and further cripple Muslim countries from competing with western ones, re-writing history to say that they didn't lose battles against European countries because their guns fired fewer rounds per minute or their cannons couldn't pierce the armor of their ships, or their factories produced fewer goods but rather because they weren't "pure" enough.

[michael_ital]

Fantastic rebuttal there JD. Ironic indeed that those who hearken for days of yor, are the ones who would have been pilloried for stoning progress.

[Narcissistic]

Stupid....I dun think so...different? Hell yeah...

Kuwaan waaba iska caadi...waxaa aniga la yaaba kuwa oo 'extreme sports' sameeya.. marka soo dhimadaana ehel koodana waa iska samertaan oo waxeey dhahaan "hool aay ayagu aad u jeclaan jireen bay ku dhimteen" iyo "hero buu ahaa"

More like nacas buu ahay

[Ganjaweed]

Why do you guys even care? I'm pretty sure they dont care what you think of them.

[xamd]

Actually the Islamic Empire at it's height was an innovative and scientific minded empire, which produced some of the best mathematics and chemistry discoveries in history. Distillation, calculus and the base 10 number system we all owe to this period.

For various reasons the society ossified and became extremely conservative and against change of any sort, and this is what brought down the Ottomans and especially the Arab led Empire. Muslim empires stopped advancing and changing and the previously backwards and savage Europeans started to advance and change, and overtook the Islamic civilization around 1700 and kept on going right into the modern era.

Ironically, those who hearken back to the glory days of the Islamic Empire want to be even MORE against change and innovation, and further cripple Muslim countries from competing with western ones, re-writing history to say that they didn't lose battles against European countries because their guns fired fewer rounds per minute or their cannons couldn't pierce the armor of their ships, or their factories produced fewer goods but rather because they weren't "pure" enough.

God forbid that I take my Muslim History from a guy who names himself "James Dahl." Muslims would do better to ignore Orientalist History of the Muslim World as it is history with the purpose of dominating Muslims materially and intellectually. I've read enough of it to realize that they either don't know and are ignorant in their history or deliberately falsify the reality of the Muslim world.

The reality is that the Ottoman Empire was doing fine, not perfect, but leagues head of the parasitic European systems based on the oppression of the majority of their own populations. What happened was that the rate of material advance picked up for the Europeans while they started from a lower level. The Ottoman advancement slowed down but did not revert and this expected as infinite progress is unrealistic, unsustainable and from an islamic point of view the world over all is regressing not progressing. So even though advancement was slow for the Ottomans they were still at par with the Europeans.

The fall of the Ottoman Empire is simple, too many enemies for them to defeat. From the North you have all the European nation states trying to destroy it. from the East you had the safavids. What broke the camel's back was the rebellion of the Bedouin Arabs from the south and the sham. They were deluded by the British into thinking that they were more worthy of leading the Muslim world. This was simply too much for the Turks to deal with and they were overwhelmed.

Technologically they weren't behind, they we're simply overwhelmed.

[James Dahl]

Actually the Islamic Empire at it's height was an innovative and scientific minded empire, which produced some of the best mathematics and chemistry discoveries in history. Distillation, calculus and the base 10 number system we all owe to this period.

For various reasons the society ossified and became extremely conservative and against change of any sort, and this is what brought down the Ottomans and especially the Arab led Empire. Muslim empires stopped advancing and changing and the previously backwards and savage Europeans started to advance and change, and overtook the Islamic civilization around 1700 and kept on going right into the modern era.

Ironically, those who hearken back to the glory days of the Islamic Empire want to be even MORE against change and innovation, and further cripple Muslim countries from competing with western ones, re-writing history to say that they didn't lose battles against European countries because their guns fired fewer rounds per minute or their cannons couldn't pierce the armor of their ships, or their factories produced fewer goods but rather because they weren't "pure" enough.

God forbid that I take my Muslim History from a guy who names himself "James Dahl." Muslims would do better to ignore Orientalist History of the Muslim World as it is history with the purpose of dominating Muslims materially and intellectually. I've read enough of it to realize that they either don't know and are ignorant in their history or deliberately falsify the reality of the Muslim world.

The reality is that the Ottoman Empire was doing fine, not perfect, but leagues head of the parasitic European systems based on the oppression of the majority of their own populations. What happened was that the rate of material advance picked up for the Europeans while they started from a lower level. The Ottoman advancement slowed down but did not revert and this expected as infinite progress is unrealistic, unsustainable and from an islamic point of view the world over all is regressing not progressing. So even though advancement was slow for the Ottomans they were still at par with the Europeans.

The fall of the Ottoman Empire is simple, too many enemies for them to defeat. From the North you have all the European nation states trying to destroy it. from the East you had the safavids. What broke the camel's back was the rebellion of the Bedouin Arabs from the south and the sham. They were deluded by the British into thinking that they were more worthy of leading the Muslim world. This was simply too much for the Turks to deal with and they were overwhelmed.

Technologically they weren't behind, they we're simply overwhelmed.

The Ottoman Empire expanded and reached the heights it did because at the time those achievements were being achieved, the Ottoman Empire was the most technologically sophisticated nation on earth. The Ottoman Janissary Army was the best in the world, with the best guns, the best cannon, the best factories, the most organized and sophisticated system of government. Learned men from Hungary, China, Arabia and Africa all came to Istanbul where the latest in science and technology was being achieved.

The Ottomans were not overwhelmed, they stopped advancing, they did it deliberately. It was a conscious decision they made, they chose stability over advancement. The ideas and science and fierce competition of the early Ottoman state was put aside as an unnecessary complication and a disruption of the social order. The qadis at court denounced the learned men who had flocked to Istanbul as kuffar or worse. The harem took control of the political scene and squabbling for power replaced the conquests of earlier times.

The Ottoman Empire had more wealth and people than all of it's enemies combined right up until it's collapse. Austria, which defeated the Ottoman Empire several times in the 1700s, was much smaller in every way. In the 1700s though, things were different, that time it was Austria which had better guns, better cannons, better factories, a more efficient and sophisticated government, a better trained army, etc etc.

You are reading the same history as I am, these facts are indisputable. The only way a smaller army can defeat a much larger one is through superior training, weaponry and tactics. The Ottomans defeated much larger European armies in the 1500s, and Austria defeated much larger Ottoman armies in the 1700s. The only difference was their comparable levels of technology, organization and training.

For an Islamic renaissance to occur, the ideals of 15th and 16th century Ottoman and 7th-10th century Ummayad achievement must be returned to. The later Ottoman and the Abbasid ideals of a strict and absolute adherence to the social order only encourages corruption and decline.

[xamd]

The Ottoman Empire expanded and reached the heights it did because at the time those achievements were being achieved, the Ottoman Empire was the most technologically sophisticated nation on earth. The Ottoman Janissary Army was the best in the world, with the best guns, the best cannon, the best factories, the most organized and sophisticated system of government. Learned men from Hungary, China, Arabia and Africa all came to Istanbul where the latest in science and technology was being achieved.

The Ottomans were not overwhelmed, they stopped advancing, they did it deliberately. It was a conscious decision they made, they chose stability over advancement. The ideas and science and fierce competition of the early Ottoman state was put aside as an unnecessary complication and a disruption of the social order. The qadis at court denounced the learned men who had flocked to Istanbul as kuffar or worse. The harem took control of the political scene and squabbling for power replaced the conquests of earlier times.

The Ottoman Empire had more wealth and people than all of it's enemies combined right up until it's collapse. Austria, which defeated the Ottoman Empire several times in the 1700s, was much smaller in every way. In the 1700s though, things were different, that time it was Austria which had better guns, better cannons, better factories, a more efficient and sophisticated government, a better trained army, etc etc.

You are reading the same history as I am, these facts are indisputable. The only way a smaller army can defeat a much larger one is through superior training, weaponry and tactics. The Ottomans defeated much larger European armies in the 1500s, and Austria defeated much larger Ottoman armies in the 1700s. The only difference was their comparable levels of technology, organization and training.

For an Islamic renaissance to occur, the ideals of 15th and 16th century Ottoman and 7th-10th century Ummayad achievement must be returned to. The later Ottoman and the Abbasid ideals of a strict and absolute adherence to the social order only encourages corruption and decline.

Apparently, I'm not reading the same history as you are as there is no other way we could have such marked disagreement. Anyways, and it is definitely not worth it to actually do the scholarly research to prove it. The Secular West has its Meta-Narrative and the Muslims have their own Meta-Narrative.

Historical Critical Analysis 101: incredulity towards meta-narratives.

[Voltage]

What if you are both right? The Ottomans were weakened and ultimately destroyed by both the technological rise of Europe as well as the rebellion in the provinces particularly Arabia along with the instability in the domestic politics of Anatolia?