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Thanks guys.

Alphanumeric wrote: I guess nafs would be 'conscience'? That makes sense. I listened to a lecture where the shaykh was discussing angels, and when it came to angels that tell us to do good and shayateen that tell us to do bad, there is a third voice in the middle that does the decision making. I'm not sure if he mentioned nafs specifically, but this makes sense to me now. I should go back and find that lecture again.

Alpha I was refering to this part only.

Alpha, im little distracted now but i will leave you with the meaning of barzaq in arabic or in arab language means: divider, wall between two things that never to come together. that's linguistically means ansd as well as fatseer of that word in quran.

BlackVelvet wrote:Thanks guys.

Alphanumeric wrote: I guess nafs would be 'conscience'? That makes sense. I listened to a lecture where the shaykh was discussing angels, and when it came to angels that tell us to do good and shayateen that tell us to do bad, there is a third voice in the middle that does the decision making. I'm not sure if he mentioned nafs specifically, but this makes sense to me now. I should go back and find that lecture again.

Alpha I was refering to this part only.

I realize, but you also included 'nafs' in the process of death. I haven't mentioned nafs in that process. I was referring to the living person.

hyperactive wrote:Alpha, im little distracted now but i will leave you with the meaning of barzaq in arabic or in arab language means: divider, wall between two things that never to come together. that's linguistically means ansd as well as fatseer of that word in quran.

Thanks. I know it's a barrier/separation, between the world of the living and the world of the dead. I'm just wondering if it can be crossed, intentionally. If souls of the sleeping can meet with souls of the dead, this might be true.

i dont know but only thing i gathered is line, no dead can cross but the sleepers can get in and get out. if i little stretch my imagination (i already presented one of my assays about that topci, my prof laughed so hard and told me i got imagination of curious person ) it's like gated community we know. there is residents live there and not allowed pass that wall, but they can get visitors!!

I constantly think about death and how my grave would be who would be there beside me and all that stuff scares me to death sometimes and other times when i am really on a high point i can't wait to die and meet allahey swt because i feel confident. then again death man its something else ban ku dahay

This is the lecture I was referring. I heard it some years ago, and spurred me to look further into Angels, Jinns, death, and more of the unseen.

What I was referring to starts at the 24:00~ mark.

Shaykh Muhammad bin Abdul Wahhab Al-Aqeel

Associate Professor of Aqeedah in University of Madinah and author of many books. He currently teaches in the College of Dawah and also in some of the other colleges and universities.

I don't hear him refer to the voice in the middle as 'nafs'.

hyperactive wrote:i dont know but only thing i gathered is line, no dead can cross but the sleepers can get in and get out. if i little stretch my imagination (i already presented one of my assays about that topci, my prof laughed so hard and told me i got imagination of curious person ) it's like gated community we know. there is residents live there and not allowed pass that wall, but they can get visitors!!

I've got theories about it. But this is exactly what I meant about it being dangerous. Imagine people crossing into the world of the dead, while they're still alive. They'd be declared insane if they tried to describe what they've seen. Or worse, they might be harmed.

there is a writter, islamic writer named Dr haqy something who writes in monthly magazine named "almojtama'a" once wrote very interesting research of his between rooh and nafs.

what he saying basically is: rooh as Allah mentioned: mel 3ind Allah. so he uses in that saying: when some one dies we say : roo7uhu tahira intaqalat ela rabia and we dont say it nafsaho taahira.....

After long references from quran ayat and ahadeetj.... he concluded that nafs did bad thing that Allah punished it* by throwing it to earth (story of adam and hawa) so it's not taahira and could do wrong, good and have ability to make decisions that deserves to be punished..etc

in other hand he says: roo7 is not and it's pure and did nothing wrong at all. so when Allah created all human...way before adam... he gathered them in place (some historian, scholares say was mecca now or ka'ba) and when Allah asked : man rabukum they all said : you. and that was roo7 way before creation of human.

Alpha, i always write every time i get those kind of assignments and i always amuse my profs without crossing line

we also have weekly debate class regarding 3ilm algeyb such life after death, before life on earth, how things were in 3arsh with Allah, angels and ibliis. and it's crazy thinking man.

Wow, It was interesting readings these posts and I finally got a clarification on the difference between ruux and nafs. Thanks.

But I got this question:

What's Sijjin and Cilliyun? Is that like where souls are kept?

Alpha the part about what you said is in brackets.

and there is another interesting this differences between rooh(soul) and nafs. it says there was nafs and soul. they both were perfect world (mithaliya) then nafs which is Allah said in quran it's one who asked(whispers) to do wrong/bad, did sin by disobeying Allah. but soul still pure and it's knowledge with Allah (min 3indi Allah). so it's kind of the two words : "3alam ellahi which represent roo7 or soul and the world of imperfection which is earthy that nasf represents!!! that's why Allah said about nafs: amaara soo'o" and didnt use with roo7!!

fascinating researches out there and still i feel some other explanations out there .lol

hyperactive wrote:there is a writter, islamic writer named Dr haqy something who writes in monthly magazine named "almojtama'a" once wrote very interesting research of his between rooh and nafs.

what he saying basically is: rooh as Allah mentioned: mel 3ind Allah. so he uses in that saying: when some one dies we say : roo7uhu tahira intaqalat ela rabia and we dont say it nafsaho taahira.....

After long references from quran ayat and ahadeetj.... he concluded that nafs did bad thing that Allah punished it* by throwing it to earth (story of adam and hawa) so it's not taahira and could do wrong, good and have ability to make decisions that deserves to be punished..etc

in other hand he says: roo7 is not and it's pure and did nothing wrong at all. so when Allah created all human...way before adam... he gathered them in place (some historian, scholares say was mecca now or ka'ba) and when Allah asked : man rabukum they all said : you. and that was roo7 way before creation of human.

Alpha, i always write every time i get those kind of assignments and i always amuse my profs without crossing line

we also have weekly debate class regarding 3ilm algeyb such life after death, before life on earth, how things were in 3arsh with Allah, angels and ibliis. and it's crazy thinking man.

Well, according to the hadeeths about death, the roox of a sinner is different than the roox of mu'min. So, is the roox pure in all instances? I don't think so.

It was narrated from Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “When the believer’s (soul) is taken, the angels of mercy come to him with white silk and say: ‘Come out to the mercy of Allaah.’ So it comes out like the best fragrance of musk and they pass it to one another and smell it until they bring him to the gate of heaven. They say: ‘What is this good smell that has come from the earth?’… Then they bring him to the souls of the believers who rejoice more than the family of an absent loved one rejoices when he returns… As for the kaafir, there come to him angels with a piece of sackcloth and say: ‘Come out to the wrath and anger of Allaah,’ and it comes out like the foulest stench of a corpse…”

Narrated by Ibn Hibbaan, 7/284

I don't know if that questioning of the souls was before or after Allah created Adam (AS). I believe this was on Yawmul 'Arafah, and was after Allah created Adam. The souls were taken from Adam, and Allah asked them this question. I can't find the hadeeth though.

Bleachedhime wrote:Wow, It was interesting readings these posts and I finally got a clarification on the difference between ruux and nafs. Thanks.

But I got this question:

What's Sijjin and Cilliyun? Is that like where souls are kept?

Cilliyuun is the "highest heaven", and souls are taken there to be questioned, before put back in the grave. Sijjiin, I forget.

hyperactive wrote:and there is another interesting this differences between rooh(soul) and nafs. it says there was nafs and soul. they both were perfect world (mithaliya) then nafs which is Allah said in quran it's one who asked(whispers) to do wrong/bad, did sin by disobeying Allah. but soul still pure and it's knowledge with Allah (min 3indi Allah). so it's kind of the two words : "3alam ellahi which represent roo7 or soul and the world of imperfection which is earthy that nasf represents!!! that's why Allah said about nafs: amaara soo'o" and didnt use with roo7!!

fascinating researches out there and still i feel some other explanations out there .lol

I don't quiet understand. I think the nafs doesn't do whispering, but responds to the whispers of shayateen.

BlackVelvet wrote:Alpha the part about what you said is in brackets.

Oh, I see. So you reworked what I said to come to your own understanding. Cool.


hyper,

Actually, I wonder if the nafs plays a role here:

Nay! If he (Abû Jahl) ceases not, We will catch him by the forelock, (Al-'Alaq 96:15) A lying, sinful forelock! (Al-'Alaq 96:16)

If the nafs is the center of decision making, I wonder if it can be referred to as "the mind"? Maybe this is why people in Jahannam are dragged on their faces?

well, it does or maybe respond of shaitan whisper but the quran said : alnafs amaara be soo'o" so it the nafs that make you feel jealous, wants things, hate things, ask you to zin...but shaitan makes it to look good but at the end nafs is one to convince. in that question : alkanady said to explain the nafs whisprering/wanting. he said: if you cant make dicission between two thing, if close to nafs or qalb dont do it. i dont know if you speak arabic or have some knowledge about it. translating makes meaning to be lost. my understanding: shaitan whisper to nafs and nafs is one acts open and request to do or take the bad decision. or the one up to decide. there were we say: nafs is one to ask the aql to do bad.

hyperactive wrote:well, it does or maybe respond of shaitan whisper but the quran said : alnafs amaara be soo'o" so it the nafs that make you feel jealous, wants things, hate things, ask you to zin...but shaitan makes it to look good but at the end nafs is one to convince. in that question : alkanady said to explain the nafs whisprering/wanting. he said: if you cant make dicission between two thing, if close to nafs or qalb dont do it. i dont know if you speak arabic or have some knowledge about it. translating makes meaning to be lost. my understanding: shaitan whisper to nafs and nafs is one acts open and request to do or take the bad decision. or the one up to decide. there were we say: nafs is one to ask the aql to do bad.

Ok, I can agree with this. It's just the way you worded it above seemed like you were suggesting the nafs itself requests sin, and not that it responds to the shayateen.

No, my Arabic is very limited. Which question are you referring to?