SAN DHEER, why are you so against Islam?

[avowedly-agnostic]

[quote=LionHeart] You need to be careful with what you say. SL said what Islam teaches is black and white. There is a hadeeth that says "what's halaal si clear, what's xaraam si clear"..

What he said is basically what i was saying; your opinions can't be in conflict with Islam. [/quote]

LionHeart seeks to confuse and mislead people by only taking those portions of Ahadith which suits him. If he bothered to narrate the whole hadith, one would see that Islam isn't black and white. The actual hadith which LionHeart refuses to complete its narration is as follows:

"What is Halal is clear. And what is Haram is also clear. And in between those two is a dubious area in which many people do not know about."

It's clear to me from the above hadith that Islam isn't clear cut, and that it's open to individual interpretation. According to the hadith of the prophet, far from Islam being black and white, it actually consists of an awful lot of grey.

[LionHeart-112]

^^Taking that portion of the hadeeth doesn't negate what i left out r change the meaning of the hadeeth. If anything, it supports it. But for the sake of timeliness, i chose to use that portion only.

You are as ignorant as your other nickname, DD.

[dhuusa_deer]

[quote="LionHeart-112"]DD...No1 si saying there is one Islam...There are 2

Correct Islam-Sunni sect (over 1.2 billion)
Wrong Islam-Every other sect. [/quote]

Look buddy, I know you're fond of... well actually you're incapable of anything but circular reasoning and arguing but don't deny simple, glaring in your face facts. There are 12 major sects of Islam. Differences of interpretation and practices exists within each sect to dizzying number of understandings of Islam. By subjetively stating there is only 2 sects of Islam against the reality I've laid out doesn't wash and you haven't furthered your arguement one inch.

[same]

LH,
The common belief among muslims is that the women are required to cover their entire body from head to toe so that only their eyes are visible. However, this belief is contrary to God’s teachings in the Quran. In 33:59 God instructs the women to lengthen their garment. In 24:31, God mentions that the women should no reveal any part of their body except that which is necessary and to cover the chests. Reading these verses alone, you may interpret that the only thing necessary to reveal are the eyes and that everything else should be concealed. When you read these verses in reference to other parts of the Quran, a more clear and reasonable understanding emerges. First of all, Godnever mentions that the women should cover their hair even though He uses the word hair in other verses in reference to hajj. God is not short of words so He could have very easily said that the women should not reveal their hair. Secondly, God states in 24:30-31 that the believing men and women should subdue their eyes which means they should not stare at each other or look each other up and down. If all women had to cover themselves from head to toe then there would be no need to subdue the eyes since there is nothing to see. Third, in 33:52 we learn that the ProphetMuhammad was forbidden from substituting a new wife for his existing one nor matter how much he admired that person’s beauty. Again, it is obvious that the women were not completely covered since it is hard to admire the beauty of someone you can not see. Fourth, God mentions in 7:31 that we should be clean and dress nicely when we go to the masjid.Dressing nicely does not mean covering yourself from head to toe. Ask yourself what would you wear if you had to dress nicely for an important interview for a job or school. Fifth, God mentions in 5:6 that He did not make the religion difficult for us which clearly points against covering your entire body and then having to go to work or school. Finally, God informs us that the best garment is not one that conceals your entire body. The best garment is the garment of righteousnThe common belief among muslims is that the women are required to cover their entire body from head to toe so that only their eyes are visible. However, this belief is contrary to God’s teachings in the Quran. In 33:59 God instructs the women to lengthen their garment. In 24:31, God mentions that the women should no reveal any part of their body except that which is necessary and to cover the chests. Reading these verses alone, you may interpret that the only thing necessary to reveal are the eyes and that everything else should be concealed. When you read these verses in reference to other parts of the Quran, a more clear and reasonable understanding emerges. First of all, Godnever mentions that the women should cover their hair even though He uses the word hair in other verses in reference to hajj. God is not short of words so He could have very easily said that the women should not reveal their hair. Secondly, God states in 24:30-31 that the believing men and women should subdue their eyes which means they should not stare at each other or look each other up and down. If all women had to cover themselves from head to toe then there would be no need to subdue the eyes since there is nothing to see. Third, in 33:52 we learn that the ProphetMuhammad was forbidden from substituting a new wife for his existing one nor matter how much he admired that person’s beauty. Again, it is obvious that the women were not completely covered since it is hard to admire the beauty of someone you can not see. Fourth, God mentions in 7:31 that we should be clean and dress nicely when we go to the masjid.Dressing nicely does not mean covering yourself from head to toe. Ask yourself what would you wear if you had to dress nicely for an important interview for a job or school. Fifth, God mentions in 5:6 that He did not make the religion difficult for us which clearly points against covering your entire body and then having to go to work or school. Finally, God informs us that the best garment is not one that conceals your entire body. The best garment is the garment of righteousness (7:26). ess (7:26).

http://www.submission.org/teenagers/ada ... ellor.html

[LionHeart-112]

^^sorry i aint about to read your copy and paste...

I know what i know. I don't need an atheist to teach me about Islam.

[LionHeart-112]

DD...You retarded wecel.. did i say there were 2 sects? As always you can't understand simple statements..i said there was teh sunni way (right) and the other sects (wrong) way. Even the Prophet (scw) said Muslism would divide into 73 sects, so it'd be foolish for me to deny that fact, wouldn't it? Dumbass..

[avowedly-agnostic]

You can paraphrase and fumble about interchanging words all you like LionHeart, but your claim that Islam is black and white is not in conformity with our dear and beloved prophet’s teachings. I'll let others decide which one of our understandings is in conformance with Islam. You say Islam's black & white, and I say it's not.

I'll narrate the hadith again:

"What is Halal is clear. And what is Haram is also clear. And in between those two is a dubious area in which many people do not know about."

P.S. isn't it just a wonder how I'm able to switch in and out as DD and Avowedly-Agnos ever so fast?!!

[LionHeart-112]

^^the agnostic is now pretending to be Muslim..U are either a muslim or u are not.

get lost.

[dhuusa_deer]

[quote="LionHeart-112"]DD...You retarded wecel.. did i say there were 2 sects? As always you can't understand simple statements..i said there was teh sunni way (right) and the other sects (wrong) way. Even the Prophet (scw) said Muslism would divide into 73 sects, so it'd be foolish for me to deny that fact, wouldn't it? Dumbass..[/quote]


If Islam IS or WILL BE divided into mulitiple (73 maybe) sects, what does that mean?


NO TRUE BLUE ISLAM


Thanks for helping out my arguement.

[avowedly-agnostic]

I'm not a Muslim, referring to Muhammed as my "beloved" after my relentless campaign against Islam and its leader is called having a sense of humour.

In any case, I'm glad you accept that Islam is far from being unambigious as the hadith clearly states.

Go to go and switch to DD now!

[LionHeart-112]

DD (DUMB DAMEER)....All the other 72 sects will be minute compared to the Sunni sect will remain the largest and the strongest. I don't see how this helps your argument. The true Islam will remain the largest.

All the other sects combined now number around 100 million compared to the 1.2 billion sunnies...

dumbass

[dhuusa_deer]

[quote="LionHeart-112"]DD (DUMB DAMEER)....All the other 72 sects will be minute compared to the Sunni sect will remain the largest and the strongest. I don't see how this helps your argument. The true Islam will remain the largest. [quote]


Unfortunately for you such AD HOC quibble won't help your case. The issue was NEVER about SIZE but whether sects or different schools of thought exist WITHIN Islam. The answer is emphatic YES and YOU inadvertantly agree. A sign perhaps you should talk less and ponder a little more.

Game, Set and Match.


Nice try for playing, try next time... you may have a better chance.


BTW, calling your opponents names is part of Islamic heritage right? Do you want to post the Hadith where YOUR prophet called your kind HYPOCRITES?

[+chilli]

Lion I applaud you in wanting to teach the sister, ma’shallah many people like to watch, while we are here to guide and help each other, but do you know what your doing wrong here? Conceal others faults and Allah will conceals yours on the day judgment. You are very judgmental brother…

San dheer don’t be offended but rather learn from this ‘opinions’ is very much welcomed in Islam but strong evidence needs to be presented. This is how many people astray, interpretation is not open to any1 but as Sir has mention highly knowledgeable people, hope you understand the reason for that, where would islam be if we all followed our own interpretation of the Quran and sunnah, for one thing we’d be strongly influenced by our desires. Have you not seen how scholars are shaky in this area, its very dangerous and a field day for the Shytan.

I can’t seem to remember the hadith, am sorry but the prophet warned us against this very thing.

Islam isn’t black and white and the prophet knew there would come a time where we reach this state, he left us guidance for it, each generation has its scholars and guides. Knowledge is the only heritage the Prophet let behind.
Here is a little story:
On the eve of Muadh ibn Jabal's departure to the Yemen to assume the office of Judge the Prophet (peace be upon him) asked him: "According to what are you going to judge?" "According to the Book of Allah", answered Muadh. "And if you don't find the ruling therein." "According to the tradition (Sunna) of the Prophet of God." "And if you don't find the ruling therein." "Then I will exert my effort to formulate my own ruling." Upon hearing Muadh's answer, the Prophet concluded: "Praise be to Allah Who has guided the messenger of the Prophet to what is acceptable to the Prophet."
From this tradition have come 4 great imams, which leave no room for any more, our four madhabs. I suggest you read into them and find one that suites you, not the one easiest for you but one that is available.

Here is a surah you should reflect on:
If you do not have complete knowledge about anything, better keep your mouth shut. You might think that speaking about something without full knowledge is a trivial matter. But it might have grave consequences [24/15-16]

Hey lion here are some for bro:
Pardon gracefully if anyone among you who commits a bad deed out of ignorance, and then repents and amends [6/54, 3/134]

Do not make mockery of others or ridicule others [49/11]

When you hear something malicious about someone, keep a favorable view about him/her until you attain full knowledge about the matter. Consider others innocent until they are proven guilty with solid and truthful evidence [24/12-13]

saalm

[BLUE RUSH]

lion heart. well done

i've noticed all the athiest punks tryed to ''gang'' up on you with bollocks

avowedly-agnostic do you know what agnosic means because you act more athiests if you ask me.. but then again you are dhsoo dheer

[avowedly-agnostic]

[quote] avowedly-agnostic do you know what agnosic means because you act more athiests if you ask me.. but then again you are dhsoo dheer [/quote]

It was only yesterday that I was dictating to you the English alphabet my dear Blue Rush, and now you want to teach uncle avowedly-agnostic the definition of agnosticism? (Smiles to himself)

I am in fact agnostic- not ruling out the possibility of the existence of God, or saying that he exists. I've for the mean time, given the unsatisfactory evidence on either side suspended all judgment regarding the matter

What I do strongly believe however is that ALLAH doesn't exist. I don't believe that God if he does indeed exist is a vengeful and cruel god, like the one who predominates most religions (if not all).

Denying the existence of a cruel god named Allah who takes pleasure in roasting innocent men and women in hell doesn't equate with denying the existence of a possible creator of the universe-period. Just the sadistic one you believe in.