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This is was a great topic, a lot of history people can learn.

Somalia's greatest period was 1960-1969.

RebelLion wrote:This is was a great topic, a lot of history people can learn.

Somalia's greatest period was 1960-1969.

Correction: Somalia's least destructive/corrupt/troublesome period was 1960-1969. When compared to 1969-1991, and 1991-?

We still have to witness greatness though.

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Anyways, were are the gentlemen in this debate? Do you have any questions/thoughts regarding 1960-1969? Or shall we continue with our investigation of the two different periods, since we still have to do an comparative analysis?

SW,

First of all..kudos to how you have presented your case, infront of all. Wether its factual 100% or not is open for debate.

However,I agree with you in the least destructive period being 1960-1969...but the least corrupt(ive)?? I am not so sure..
Despite my bias ( I admit) for the period I am more familiar with..wich is the Siad Barre's days..

In anycase, the participation of Voltage is warranted here...IMO.

Voltage has taken a time out

No he has not, nor have I. Somaliweyn gave us all the answers we needed. From his posts the governments of the 60's DID NOT HAVE social/economic/military achievements compared to the revolutionary government. If you people read again you would notice the only somewhat credible thing he mentioned of the 60's was an economic growth THAT WAS ACHIEVED DURING THE REVOLUTIONARY GOVERNMENTS TIME, but hey "the 2-year economic plan was the reason for the extreme economic growth of the 1970-74." Somaliweyn wanted to lead this debate into another direction, a petty argument of "democracy" and "dictatorship," achievement is not measured by the political umbrella the governments fall under but the social/economic/military growth. An the Revolutionary governments achievements is unmatched with the best economy of our time during their reign, the strongest army in Africa during their reign, and social improvements in our society that are unmatched i.e in education and so forth. This topic turned another route and in all topics like this I see no point in replying but this time it was to inform you guys why I nor voltage replied!

SB,

Your points make sense too. Cos the premise of the debate was which of these governments had accomplished more for the somali public.

But one can argue that..despite all its succes and because of the lenghty time they stayed in power which could have essentially tilted the achievement scale into their favor..
Their failures were more destructive and had long lasting and negative effect on the whole nation.
Though no one can and should blame whats been going on in somalia for the last 18 yrs on the previous regime..cos to me that sounds that somalis were and still are idiots who cant manage to run any form of government...sice Siad..and that only vindicates those who argue he was the best..since we cant even agree to any form of law and order...safe some regions..who runs their fiefdoms based on clan system.

However,I agree with you in the least destructive period being 1960-1969...but the least corrupt(ive)??

Cawar,

Yes indeed, the government of 1960-1969 was less corrupt and ripped apart by nepotism and clannism compared to the military regime of 1969-1991.

Shocking indeed considering the fact that the only claim to legitimacy the coup had was to eradicate corruption/nepotism/clannism

SB,

Reread my posts, and see the important accomplishments of the first governments.

An the Revolutionary governments achievements is unmatched with the best economy of our time during their reign, the strongest army in Africa during their reign, and social improvements in our society that are unmatched i.e in education and so forth.

We shall see if this holds water in our next part of investigation: the performance of the military regime of 1969-1991.

Let us start, shall we?

social improvements in our society that are unmatched i.e in education and so forth

Social improvements? the total breakdown of civil society among Somalis a few later would suggest that no real tangible improvements were made, in fact it could be seen as the catalyst for the breakdown of society.

Aliyah99 wrote:

social improvements in our society that are unmatched i.e in education and so forth

Social improvements? the total breakdown of civil society among Somalis a few later would suggest that no real tangible improvements were made, in fact it could be seen as the catalyst for the breakdown of society.

Good observation.

In the coming part we will see how the society, economy, military and even political sphere were so deteriorated at the end of the military rule that they were only existent on paper, and broke down in reality.

Frankly I have not read anything Somaliweyn wrote nor probably did the rest of you people.

It is pointless, uninteresting, extremely redundant considering he used the sources I brought, and the fact of the matter is the subject matter has nothing to do with what the said person is talking about.

As it stands, the achievements of the presidencies of Somalia is ranked.

1. Siad Barre
2. Abdirashiid Ali Shermaake
3. Addan Cadde

If Somaliweyn believes otherwise, I have said he is more then welcome to say why starting with his rank of the presidencies. Anything else about which one was a dictatorship or a pseudo-democracy is beside the point and wholly irrelevant.

The said individual can take three years writing editions of pure B.ullshit (as we like to say even in pure academic parlance) but I will not waste my time. There is nothing to debate about.

When Siad Barre came to power in Somalia, there was one paved road in all of Somalia running in Mogadishu in front of the Roman arch. When he left, the country was one of the most powerful in Africa.

Debating about whether Addan Cade, or Abdirashiid Cali Shermaake, accomplished as much as Siad or compete with him in terms of achievement is really just what it is....a joke.

Frankly I will not waste my time being party to a joke.

Voltage,

Honestly, I was expecting a more mature and intelligent answer from you. You took 48 hours and you came up with a recycled dodge-ball. That's pathetic in my opinion.

Vo


See for the mere fact u put Baare # 1 disqualifies your statistics. It is well known u r reer diini, by default unobjective. Put the Osman Mahmood dude # 1 and lets continue from there.

Basra- wrote:Vo


See for the mere fact u put Baare # 1 disqualifies your statistics. It is well known u r reer diini, by default unobjective. Put the Osman Mahmood dude # 1 and lets continue from there.

It is not about what clan X or Y belong to. If some-one doesn't have the facts, they shouldn't make a silly statement they cant defend. SW presented his opinion with the necessary evidence to back his assertions and all Voltage offers is an empty rhetoric and ZERO substance

Twisted, the fact that you expected (what you call) a "mature" and "intelligent" response from me is because of my record. Whether discussions take 40 pages or 40 days, I have never shied away from any discussion on Somalinet provided I viewed the discussion as holding merit and worthy of debate.

That anyone wants to argue with me about whether Addan Cadde, or Cabdirashiid Cali Shermaake, accomplished as much as Siad Barre or achieved 1/5 what he did is laughable. The whole notion of it is pure comedy sxb.

Still it is expected you wish to drag me into a joke. After all you come from the same overall clan background as Somaliweyn, wish to empower Addan Cade by comparing him to Siad Barre, and have a vested interest in making this JOKE into a form of discussion.

It legitimizes the absurd notion of the comparison does it not?

No thanks, I expected to disappoint you.

EVEN SO, in more then a dozen occasions, I gave Somaliweyn the option of turning this into a legitimate discussion borne of a legitimate question:

If Somaliweyn believes otherwise, I have said he is more then welcome to say why starting with his rank of the presidencies. Anything else about which one was a dictatorship or a pseudo-democracy is beside the point and wholly irrelevant.

If you wish to present your case as dealing with the point in topic, I am more then interested in seeing what you bring to the table STARTING WITH the presidents and how they rank in terms of achievements.

And ironically so, Somaliweyn himself has attempted to be honest once and wrote objectively of both Addan Cadde and Abdirashiid's administrations:

First of all, I have low esteem of both periods since obviously Somali people were dissapointed by the meagre outcome as result of the failure of the respective governments. But nontheless, I will argue that the military regime succesfully destroyed Somalia while the civilian government only mismanaged Somalia.

He never addressed for once how the presidents rank in achievement and by his own omission is not following the main point of the topic!

He knows what he is attempting to do is a joke! And it became a big time joke when time after time he failed to start by ranking the presidents with an explanation of why he labeled them as such, but instead delved into a pure b.ullshit driven rant about dictatorships and pseudo-democracies.

Give me a break!



-Basra,

It has nothing to do with reer Diini or Osman Mohmuud. It has to do with calling out a spade for a spade.

Voltage,

I was looking for a mature and intellectual response from you, because the thread is a mature and intellectual discussion. It says nothing about my opinion of your ability to have a mature discussion or not. I think the whole population of SNET is a aware of your record and I will leave it at that. Frankly, as you have said, you have taken part of arguments that ran into dozen pages about absolutely nothing and I am dismayed at why you are shying from this one legitimate discussion.

Secondly, I viewed this discussion from the periphery from the start because it was a discussion between SW and you after you made an ignorant assertion in one of the earlier threads. I had no business intervening as it did not merit my participation and also SW is more than enough to defend his views. That you would question my qualification of taking part in this discussion purely out of clan back-ground really shows your pathetic world-view and nothing else. So, as I said before, the whole league of SNET is waiting for a response from you and if you are incapable of defending your assertions then exit without embarrassing yourself any further. As I said before, we were waiting for a response and all we got is a recycled dodge-ball