SOMALIA at cross roads [secret video]

[Armstrong]

Among those delegates of manifesto is a guy named "sakhraan" and they want caydiid to take them serious?

[Voltage]

Ok, utanga was holiday resort I get it.

If I never would have seen video dadab refuge camp just recently, these guys would have convinced me the place is paradise on earth.

Well it is all relative.

I suppose someone from Johannesburg township would find Cape Town a paradise on earth and a place of peace and comfort where you are with security and beauty. In turn a person from Cape Town would find Perth, Australia the pinnacle of paradise on earth and the height of peace and comfort where you do not have to fortify your house with stringent security and with more beauty.

Similarly, Utanga trumps Wardhiigley and the Mogadishu you claim some were bitter to not have lived in that time. What was there in Mogadishu? It was the worst time for the worst city on earth. Ciroole and caruur had no safe and security and you yourself fled after the Darod. Whereas Utanga, right smack in the middle of Mombasa was, albeit a refugee, a lush green place adjacent to East Africa's largest urban city with support from the Kenyan government and the world.

But of course, in thousands of years of history it is the only thing you have against what you consider your Darod enemies so I would milk it for what it's worth if I were you too.

[Armstrong]

Why do you address me like you know me?

If utanga was paradise on earth next time you pray to your creator make dua for the general because he is the one who sent you that holiday resort.

[Voltage]

Well I am sure a lot of Somalis do praise God they were there instead of Mogadishu during that time. After all, a place of "refuge" is a place where you seek safety. How can someone not praise the nature of their refuge? It is understandable that one can dislike the circumstance that led them to seek safety but people generally move on from that. Humans have a way of adapting and those Somalis have moved on in massive numbers to different countries to start new lives. The three years Utanga existed spared them the 20 years of constant displacement in Somalia.

I only saw it fit to address you this time because it is probably the 101th time you mentioned Utanga in any discussion of this nature. I don't know what your reasons are but I tend to think you might actually have been there and have had a bad time as a minority clansman in the area. I have heard stories of Hawiye in the largely Darod environment facing reprisals and it could very well possibly be that you carry psychological residue from that time. One thing I do know is you were there.

[ciyaal_warta]

Of course everybody in Somalia would sound sane and level headed, do you expect them to sound like monsters? Caydiid unfortunately was power hungry just like every one in that room and my way or the highway type of guy, while he talked like a civilized man, his armed fighters were killing people that had nothing to do with politics all the way to the kenyan border. If he was like the man people are portraying him to be in the video, he would come out and state his problem is with MSB and not the civilians, he would ORDER his men to protect the defenseless and go out of his way to show his capable leader. I doubt people would care aslong as they continued leading their normal everyday lifes but as as soon MSB was defeated, we all know what happened, people went on a witch hunt and revenge killings.

sxb the the things that happened were tragedy and it dint start on that day..i am no cuqdad guy sxb..my own abti and three other guys were killed less than 30mtr from my house Via floransa street by the special forces of MSB..the only reason they killed them is bcoz they happened to be educated pple from pro-USC clan...the killing of civilians was happening long before USC came to mogadishu it was the special forces of MSB that were doing it..and these USC militia killing innocent somali pple was wrong but they reacted to massacres that MSB forces started...so dont take the story from one side and used for ur own goals sxb..try to see it from both sides..again what happened was tragedy and both groups committed massacres against defenseless somali crowd that happened to be the clan of both groups

[ciyaal_warta]

Ciyaal Warta, you are a grown man bro and in college who is supposed to think critically and analytically. Do you judge a person like Caydiid based on a few minutes meeting with many members of Somali civil society including Siad Barre regime (there were even Majerten in the Manifesto such as Mohamed Ali Hamaan) before Siad was overthrown or you look at the guy's history comprehenseively from the start of the USC rebel group to his ending?

There was nothing good about his intentions. Read Nurridin Farah's book voices from Somali diaspora, this is the guy who made the concoction of Hashish, Khat, and Qamri for geeljire kids to mess up their humanity while he was training them in Mustaxiil. This is the man who sought loyalty from nomadic boys he brought together in Mustaxiil by saying for centuries "Darod" has slaved you, will you now be a free man or "Darod" continue to slave you? The man was headed to destroy Somali fabric, not bring down a mere man called Siad Barre in power.

Also, read books such as Somalia the Cost of Dictatorship written by the SNM middle man to USC and former general Mohamed Jama Qhalib (Isaaq). How can you look at this man's aim to bring down Siad Barre while ignoring his lust for power? He didn't even start the USC, USC was chiefly started by Jimcaale and he broke away because he wanted to head the group and not come under anyone. His motivation was not about consensus but about hunger for power. You can even see in that video the Manifesto really cared about the nation and just wanted Siad out...which was they were willing to take a transitional compromise with Siad.

Caydiid says no, they will bring down and the "armed forces" will make a new government. What armed forces? In 1969, an armed force changed government. What Caydiid had was a rag tag tribal militia for years indoctrinated and trained in Mustaxiil to be in the fighting because of hatred of a Somali clan, not the Somali leader in power? What army would have succeeded? There was no army and he was not interested in compromise, he only cared that he would succeed Siad and this is why he was adamant on armed change using his own personally cultivated tribal militia. Even there you could see he was out to destroy Somali fabric.

Also, say after Siad was removed from Mogadishu and the Manifesto crowned Ali Mahdi the president. Why did this guy use his sub-clan militia to resist destroying the capital city of Somalia? If this guy was for the good of the country, could he not have compromised, joined the consensus, and then baited another time to legitimately become leader? Why did he have to react to not being chosen president by engaging in armed tribal fighting that eventually saw the destruction of the capital, the emergence of the green line, and ironically enough his own death as a result of it.

All in all for everything this guy did from his training of the geeljire kids in Mustaxiil, to the removal of MSB where the target was against a clan and not government, to his inability to compromise but to achieve everything using tribal militias, to his starving of tens of thousands of Somalis by using donated food aid as a political weapon which saw him become the target of a UN manhunt, his sanction of rape, theft, murder, etc...this is the man whose next closet kinsman and foremost Sheikh of the Somali people, Boqolsoon, was gunned down on his orders for denouncing him and telling Somalis based on Boqolsoon's analysis Caydiid had left the fold of Islam and that any person who supports Caydiid has committed Kufr

http://www.addacwah.com/Muxadaro/Sh_Max ... aalada.ram

Starting such an unwise topic like this leads people like MoonLight and their likes to go down a slippery slope. Ka fiirso

sxb as far as everone knows caydiid was no qawiil loyalist at the begginging of the war he was power hungary fella infact that why he said MSB must leave coz caydiid thought from the armed there is no one better than him to be a president...all we know caydiid was ruthless as MSB and if he took a ceasefire atm we would atleast had a functioning government somali wouldnt be destroyed like this...his traget was not clan target that where u wrong sxb his target was to be president of soomaaliya just like AY.....plus boqolsoon was not gunned down by his orders i dont know where did u get that info..boqolsoon was killed by murusade moryaans in naar kabood acheck point they randomly fired at the car he was in which was a public car and they later said if we know he was in we wouldnt fired at the car...it was an accident and for ur info that time murusade and HG were fighting so in no way caydiid ordered boqolsoon to be assissanated and the kufr thing boqolsoon blved every somali leader was kaafir including MSB sxb

[ciyaal_warta]

Ciyaal Warta, no matter how many times you remind people to refrain from qabiil bashing, videos like this one will remind some of the folks here one thing and only one thing: the harsh time they spent in Utanga and that is going to stir a lot of emotions in some people.

dude one shouldnt me emotional when they are engaging in a debate...utanga was a cake walk compare to the guys like us who lived in xamar all this time homie...nevertheless we should refrain from qawiil otherwise if the topic doesnt serve the purpose of intellectual discussion i will ask the Modz to delete it.

You just killed Armstrong inside with this response without even knowing about it.

[TheblueNwhite]

Why do you address me like you know me?

If utanga was paradise on earth next time you pray to your creator make dua for the general because he is the one who sent you that holiday resort.

[Armstrong]

I am not a fan of caydiid for many reasons. First, if you are going to be ruthless, be good at it. And clearly Caydiid wasn't good at that, otherwise i wouldn't be replying to Afweyne worshippers now.

Secondly, he waged war against every single clan and defeated them. And even when he thought none of the clans were no match for his Habargidir clan, he went after the most powerful nation on earth along with its allies. I can't worship a power hungry man who had zero deplomacy skills. Having said that, I thought Caydiid on that memorable night in Huriwaa was brilliant. His response to the demands of manifesto guys was decisive and unwavering. It would have been a catastrophic mistake to allow Afweyne to remain in power for a little longer as the manifesto elders were demanding from him especially when you consider the fact that this was a time when Afweyne was bleeding. The only language a dictator like Afweyne or Mubarak or Gaddafi understand is the sound of the gun fire.

[RovingMadness]

Why are you guys reducing the civil war to Mogadishu

It started in Hargaisa & Mudug. Mogadishu was the logical finale. Discuss this issue in a holistic manner. Simplifications and cherry-picking episodes where your clan was the victim is utter none sense

[zingii]

Ciyaal-warta:

sxb, Caydiid AUN, laakinse kuma saxsanid inaa barbardhigto MSB (AUN) markii loo eego mawqifyada ay u taagnayeen.
Labada shaqsi way iska cadahay mid-waliba waxa laga dhaxlay hadii lais indhotirayn.

[zingii]

Why are you guys reducing the civil war to Mogadishu

It started in Hargaisa & Mudug. Mogadishu was the logical finale. Discuss this issue in a holistic manner. Simplifications and cherry-picking episodes where your clan was the victim is utter none sense

muqdisho waa tan wajigii iyo sumcadii soomaaliyeed ku ciyaartay.
maanta waa wax laga xishoodo in muqdisho afka lasoo mariyo.

[Voltage]

Armstrong, Caydiid ka hor wax maad ahayn, hadana wax ma tihid. Ilaahay ka cabsoo, Caydiid ninkii hubka u gadi jiray gawaaridana u keeni jiray (Caato) jidadka Xamar ka qaad sxb. Nimankii Xamar ku amar taglayn jiray 1993 waa iyaga maanta leh Muqdishaa nalagu gumaystaa, una ooyaya waxaad u taqaanid "Siad worshipper"...this is the representation of Caydiid's USC in Somalia maantadan xaadirka ah



No wonder Qansa_Gabayle hada ka hor kuu baxshey Ciil-Qabe. Nin aduunka ciilay baad tahay.

[RovingMadness]

Why are you guys reducing the civil war to Mogadishu

It started in Hargaisa & Mudug. Mogadishu was the logical finale. Discuss this issue in a holistic manner. Simplifications and cherry-picking episodes where your clan was the victim is utter none sense

muqdisho waa tan wajigii iyo sumcadii soomaaliyeed ku ciyaartay.
maanta waa wax laga xishoodo in muqdisho afka lasoo mariyo.

War boon-ka tahay wasse naga aamus

[zingii]

^^^ sidii dameerada intaadan afka furan, hadalada wiswiska miiran ah ee dhoocilaha xitaa afka ka ilaalsadaan qiimayn ku suubi.