5 reasons why I support for secession from the Union

[Somaliman50]

One has to ask, who spoke for Italian Somaliland and British Somaliland? We all know Tribes in Italian Somaliland and British Somaliland, individually had the power to make their own choices prior to Colonization, during Colonization and after Colonization. No single tribe, be it Daarod, Hawiye or Dir speaks for the former Italian-Somaliland Protectorate or the former British-Somaliland protectorate.

Any tribe that deems to secede from the rest, has the right to do so under one condition. That condition is to respect it's neighboring clan's choices and not infringe upon their territorial integrity. Anything beyond that, is simply asking for destruction and chaos.

Ishaa ka tuurtay.

[The_Emperior5]

Well in 1960




And in 2012




But lets see how the talks in the future goes between Somalia and Somaliland.

Coldoon pick who represents you Hassan sheikh mahamuud the president of Somalia or President Silanyo of Somaliland.

[AbdiWahab252]

5 reasons why Issaq leadership failed their Issaq:

1. Lack of Unity - The issaq came running to Xamar in 1960 and were begging for the union. Even when a very senior SYL person warned them to think twice about coming into a Union because indepedence is a hard thing to win and it would be better for them to try being a state for a few years. Nope, the Issaq leadership at the time were at each other's throats and could not get along. They agreed to forming a union to allow someone else to lead rather than foment the first SOmali civil war.

2. Greed - The Issaq held key government positions and profited well. However their leadership were opportunitists who were more concerned about their individual welfare than that of their tol or region. They built and invested in Xamar leaving Hargeisa to languish. With their arrival in 1960, they occupied senior government positions and were very corrupt and lived off the barwaqo of Wanlaweyn. The Issaq had more perks for their region than other parts of Somalia: Berbera and Hargeisa had lower taxes, business incentives, generous aid programs while vast regions like Mudug, Galgaduud, Gedo etc languished.

3. Indecisive Leadership - The Issaq PM, Ina Egal, FAILED to stop the 1969 coup by spending his energies to find a Majeerten candidate to replace the the Marxum Abdirashid ALi Sharmarke who was assasinated. When warned of the coup, Egal dismissed it and was contemplating making Muse Boqor the new President. He could have simply ordered loyalist officers like Aidid, Abdullahi Yusuf etc to squash the coup or to form a counter coup using loyalist units in Central, Northern and Southwestern Somalia. INstead Egal failed to take action and thus we got MSB.

4. Strategic "Secession" Blunder - Without thinking it through, the Issaq pushed secessionism which put them on an isolationist course. Even when Aidid finished off MSB, and neutred Ali Mahdi, the Issaq did not assist their ally and continued on their path. The Issaq had the golden opportunity to take a more assertive role and even temporarily taken custody of the Government as the other partner in the Union. If they had gone down this path instead, Issaq would have been the most powerful force and Hargeisa would have out eclipsed Xamar. Yet, for some odd knee jerk reaction, they gave up their rights as the other half of the Union and chose to isolate themselves which worked until the Issaq civil war forcing the founder of Somaliland to renounce secessionism and to join Aidid's government. Tur died in exile never seeing his homeland again.

5. Lying to their people - The Issaq leadership have lied to their people and reinvented history:
i) The first lie spun was that the war against Siyaad Barre was one between Northerners and Southerners when in reality it was MSB loyalists vs. rebels (Northern, Southern, Central etc).The second lie was that SNM fought for indepedence from the Somali Republic when its constitution stated that it wanted a regime change but spoke nothing of indepedence.
II) The second lie is that all the clans of Somaliland support independence while a majority of nonIssaq support Unionism but due to either political intimidation or military intimidation they remain silent fearing reprisals. The SL authority has cracked down on anyone suspected of being proUNion by jailing them for even waving the blue flag.


So in summary, most nonIssaq SOmali clans are not against the idea of a Issaq nation with in its tribal lands but to fib about the past and to hold Unionists hostage will not lead the Issaq to their promise land. I think with 5 years of independence, the Issaq will come clamouring back to be part of the Somali Republic because after the propaganda of "Us vs. Them" wears off, they will fight amongst themselves.

[SultanOrder]

Somaliland biggest unionists will be the youth right now that make up something like 70% of the population with 70% unemployment. Those who are being educated and being transformed by new technologies that will give them better access to the rest of the world will desire a lot of change, a lot of freedoms, and a lot of new discourse. Soon, it will be common discussion for the youth to talk about plotting a new course for Somalia, the pro's and con's of union, the follies of their republic, and there will be divergence. To promote this, I wholeheartedly advocate for the integration of Somaliland students and Somalia students into each respective countries schools.

Let us not fool ourselves to believe that Khalid Ali, Rightwing, etc who all live in western countries and have western passports have the influence to change Somaliland this way or that way. It is whichever camp the youthfall into that will make or break Unity.

[Coldoon]

One has to ask, who spoke for Italian Somaliland and British Somaliland? We all know Tribes in Italian Somaliland and British Somaliland, individually had the power to make their own choices prior to Colonization, during Colonization and after Colonization. No single tribe, be it Daarod, Hawiye or Dir speaks for the former Italian-Somaliland Protectorate or the former British-Somaliland protectorate.

Any tribe that deems to secede from the rest, has the right to do so under one condition. That condition is to respect it's neighboring clan's choices and not infringe upon their territorial integrity. Anything beyond that, is simply asking for destruction and chaos.

Ishaa ka tuurtay.

Thank you. I try to be as impartial as I can.

[waryaa]

1- Because we can! and it's our right.
2-Better off this way better that we break....I hate parasitic
3- without recognition we created all the basic institutions
4- I can't stand fake people. In this case when I see heavily accented geeljire like Voltage and Abdiwahab252 who acts they were born and bred in Banaadir
5- You can fool me once but not twice(Somalinimada samada ula baxa)


Le justice
rw

rw, maybe (or maybe not) it is good for sland to secede, however, your five reasons do not carry any weight when it comes to things like cutting a country in into two

I think the best way to approach this complicated issue would be to create different study groups from both sides before any secession negotiations:
1- economic viability - both sides
2- national security - both sides
3- the pandora's box. If Somalia is divisible, so is Somaliland - are Somaliland secessionists willing to let Borame and Las Ano go if these regions want to stay in the union?
4- we are tribal society. Isaqs want to secede but Dhulbahante will never allow that. Things like this must be solved too.

[Coldoon]

are Somaliland secessionists willing to let Borame and Las Ano go if these regions want to stay in the union?

Waryaa,

The idea that secessionism exists within Somaliland, a non-existing entity that has never existed as a whole, prior to Colonization, during Colonization and post colonization is itself an absurdity. For there to be "secessionists", the entity which they're seeking to secede from has to be a realistically, recognized entity/country. There was no "Somaliland" prior to the Colonization. One has to ask, well, then who dares to claim that they speak for the entire Former Somaliland-Protectorate?

For Isaaq to say they speak for British-Somaliland, is like Somalis saying they speak for Africa. It's ridiculously immature.

[The_Emperior5]

Abdiwahaab you are right about the union in 1960 but our political culture is different than urs our leaders are led by their people not the other way around, cigaal was a junior at that time only 29 years old just finished studying at London school of economics and took over the party from the late Cali meygaag samatar SNL so it was not him his fault but it was his people supported the failed union they were pushing it not him. Cigaal could not stop it this is what they wanted. Cigaal could not say i cant do that if he didn't brought the union he could not maintain the rule of law in Somaliland.. The ignorant Somalilanders thought that only with the help of the walanweyns they could get the hawd and reserve area back that was the thing that was driving them.

Abdiwahaab i have seen you make these crazy statements a few times let me correct you on the SNM part the SNM initially started of as a unionist movement fighting for the peoples of Somaliland particularly the isaaq against afweyne how ever. The SNM had a plan A was to re create the Somali state a north south power-sharing USC SNM power sharing system. two states one country one president one prime minister one capital one flag. President Siilaanyo wrote a well drafted powersharing formula. this was begin 1991 the SNM central committee even approved it. But the USC could not deliver and could not honor the agreement eventhough Caydiid would try later to restore but than it would be to late. But the SNM also had a plan B they organized a wider conference for the peoples of Somaliland to talk about peace between the people of Somaliland and to discuss the future of our people and thats when the Somalilanders and the SNM central committee voted and signed and with the support of the people of Somaliland declared independence and thats how it went and we dont regret it.

[Siciid85]

AbdiWahab252 stop spreading lies. Cabdirahman Tuur AUN was not a bitter man, he was in Somaliland in 2003 and even visited the widow of Egal AUN. Later when he died
he himself was buried in his motherland.

First Somaliland President visits widow of late President
Reported by The Republican newspaper.




Later when he died he was given a national burial.

MARXUUM CABDIRAXMAAN TUUR OO SI HEER QARAN AH LOOGU AASAY HARGEYSA.


http://snn-rambo.blogdrive.com/archive/o-256.html

[gurey25]

5 reasons why Issaq leadership failed their Issaq:

1. Lack of Unity - The issaq came running to Xamar in 1960 and were begging for the union. Even when a very senior SYL person warned them to think twice about coming into a Union because indepedence is a hard thing to win and it would be better for them to try being a state for a few years. Nope, the Issaq leadership at the time were at each other's throats and could not get along. They agreed to forming a union to allow someone else to lead rather than foment the first SOmali civil war.

2. Greed - The Issaq held key government positions and profited well. However their leadership were opportunitists who were more concerned about their individual welfare than that of their tol or region. They built and invested in Xamar leaving Hargeisa to languish. With their arrival in 1960, they occupied senior government positions and were very corrupt and lived off the barwaqo of Wanlaweyn. The Issaq had more perks for their region than other parts of Somalia: Berbera and Hargeisa had lower taxes, business incentives, generous aid programs while vast regions like Mudug, Galgaduud, Gedo etc languished.

3. Indecisive Leadership - The Issaq PM, Ina Egal, FAILED to stop the 1969 coup by spending his energies to find a Majeerten candidate to replace the the Marxum Abdirashid ALi Sharmarke who was assasinated. When warned of the coup, Egal dismissed it and was contemplating making Muse Boqor the new President. He could have simply ordered loyalist officers like Aidid, Abdullahi Yusuf etc to squash the coup or to form a counter coup using loyalist units in Central, Northern and Southwestern Somalia. INstead Egal failed to take action and thus we got MSB.

4. Strategic "Secession" Blunder - Without thinking it through, the Issaq pushed secessionism which put them on an isolationist course. Even when Aidid finished off MSB, and neutred Ali Mahdi, the Issaq did not assist their ally and continued on their path. The Issaq had the golden opportunity to take a more assertive role and even temporarily taken custody of the Government as the other partner in the Union. If they had gone down this path instead, Issaq would have been the most powerful force and Hargeisa would have out eclipsed Xamar. Yet, for some odd knee jerk reaction, they gave up their rights as the other half of the Union and chose to isolate themselves which worked until the Issaq civil war forcing the founder of Somaliland to renounce secessionism and to join Aidid's government. Tur died in exile never seeing his homeland again.

5. Lying to their people - The Issaq leadership have lied to their people and reinvented history:
i) The first lie spun was that the war against Siyaad Barre was one between Northerners and Southerners when in reality it was MSB loyalists vs. rebels (Northern, Southern, Central etc).The second lie was that SNM fought for indepedence from the Somali Republic when its constitution stated that it wanted a regime change but spoke nothing of indepedence.
II) The second lie is that all the clans of Somaliland support independence while a majority of nonIssaq support Unionism but due to either political intimidation or military intimidation they remain silent fearing reprisals. The SL authority has cracked down on anyone suspected of being proUNion by jailing them for even waving the blue flag.


So in summary, most nonIssaq SOmali clans are not against the idea of a Issaq nation with in its tribal lands but to fib about the past and to hold Unionists hostage will not lead the Issaq to their promise land. I think with 5 years of independence, the Issaq will come clamouring back to be part of the Somali Republic because after the propaganda of "Us vs. Them" wears off, they will fight amongst themselves.

1, 2 ,3 and 4 are true and more or less accurate.
but 5 is false completly false, you made this assumption because of your ignorance of isaaq.
The SNM leadership never did those things it was the people who became fed up of the south and wanted no business with them, ali mahdi was the spark that set it off. It proved that the USC/SPM were unreliable.
The
SNM leadership were in the majority unionists , none of them wanted secession or dreamed of it, they were forced into it by the people,
the same way egaal was forced into hasty union by mass public demonstrations.
Isaaq are anarchists to the core and have little respect for leadership they dont approve of and the SNM was the most democratic liberation movement in history. This was because they were answerable to the people and depended on donations from its people instead of foriegn aid.

[waryaa]

I always thought Igal (AUN) was the 1st Somaliland president...

[CaliBurco]

Waryaa & Co, we are discussing Somaliland here, not Isaaqs.

[gurey25]

Somaliland biggest unionists will be the youth right now that make up something like 70% of the population with 70% unemployment. Those who are being educated and being transformed by new technologies that will give them better access to the rest of the world will desire a lot of change, a lot of freedoms, and a lot of new discourse. Soon, it will be common discussion for the youth to talk about plotting a new course for Somalia, the pro's and con's of union, the follies of their republic, and there will be divergence. To promote this, I wholeheartedly advocate for the integration of Somaliland students and Somalia students into each respective countries schools.

Let us not fool ourselves to believe that Khalid Ali, Rightwing, etc who all live in western countries and have western passports have the influence to change Somaliland this way or that way. It is whichever camp the youthfall into that will make or break Unity.

this is why i believe it is useless to discuss this issue with some people.
the emotions here are too much it affects critical thinking, and the heights of delusions are amazing.

yes there is 70% unemployment, we are apoor african country, why is this relevant?

are you saying that we are seceding from a rich developed country that would benefit us?

from 1960 till 1990 somalia was a drain a handicap for our development, we lost so much in the union, it was not only the lives of our people .
Somalia does not benefit us in any way and cannot harm us in any way.

[Coldoon]

Waryaa & Co, we are discussing Somaliland here, not Isaaqs.

Why are you so afraid to say Isaaq instead of Somaliland? You guys remind me the Jews. Europe, US, UK, Australia are all run by Jews, but they're too afraid to say it, and instead they forced themselves to create something called "Israel" to give them a small valve to let their steaming frustration and anger out.

[CaliBurco]

Waryaa & Co, we are discussing Somaliland here, not Isaaqs.

Why are you so afraid to say Isaaq instead of Somaliland? You guys remind me the Jews. Europe, US, UK, Australia are all run by Jews, but they're too afraid to say it, and instead they forced themselves to create something called "Israel" to give them a small valve to let their steaming frustration and anger out.

Thanks for the compliment.