What would it take to liberate NFD and Western Somalia?

[AbdiJohnson]

Dictatorship I would suggest for 50 years. You're right but democracy should eventually come. Half a century of education will be needed. Let the older men die. I've seen the kids our age. They are not as evil and corrupt as their parents. They just need to br taugh the right path

Somalis need discipline. I would make every 1st of the month, Cleaning Day where every man, woman and child in the country picks up trash and clean their cities. Or atleast those younger than 40. Poor, rich, I don't care. They will all clean from sunrise to sundown

I am,

Abdi "I will jail those who flee or hide" Johnson

[TheGrumpyGeeljire]

Just don't attempt to convert them to atheists otherwise al-kabaab will gain support from the masses against the infamous dictator 'cabdijoonsan' lol. Don't become like your uncle Ina Iley. Lol.

[gurey25]

Abdijohnson, other than your cadaan cabuud and tolerance for qanisnimo we see things eye to eye, especially in the fields politics and economics. Unfortunately democracy is not suited to somalis and whoever is going address these issues must do so by force.

sadly it appears abdijohnson is a neoliberal.
this alone disqualifies him more than his gaalnimo.

[AbdiJohnson]

Gurey25, you constantly mentioning my gaalnimo gives me great pride. Failing to follow neoliberalism violates basic moral standards. But I am a different type of neoliberal. I seek to satisfy the little people before the wealthy. Free trade only if it doesn't annihilate local industries. Zero taxes for the average man before the billionaires. Deregulation for small businesses, not corporations. But I still will have regard for big business (they are second in my thoughts). Their concerns come first if the little people arent harmed

I am a neo neo-liberal

I am,

Abdi "You should come on board" Johnson

[gurey25]

Gurey25, you constantly mentioning my gaalnimo gives me great pride. Failing to follow neoliberalism violates basic moral standards. But I am a different type of neoliberal. I seek to satisfy the little people before the wealthy. Free trade only if it doesn't annihilate local industries. Zero taxes for the average man before the billionaires. Deregulation for small businesses, not corporations. But I still will have regard for big business (they are second in my thoughts)

I am a neo neo-liberal

I am,

Abdi "You should come on board" Johnson

ok that sounds better, in your previous posts you appeared like a neoliberal ideologue,a very common creature in America.
but if you believe what you posted thats great , you have hope after all.
I can work with a gaal somali but never with a neoliberal.

[Bermooda]

SomaliDefenceCouncil other than Murusade the rest of my karanle family are mostly in Ethiopia. Before people even knew about AUN Ahmed Gurey Karanle were at the forefront of fighting the xabashi even till today we are still holding back millions of Oromos in Hararghe.

Like BoholKing said hawiye have huge land in somaligalbeed so its in my interest to see them freed but my point is not to repeat the same mistake again which was using our national army. In this day and age you cant just invade countries unless you have a seat in the security council or get a green light from one of them.

LiquidHYDROGEN i have never claimed that Somalis didn't play a huge role but you need to think outside the box there is another side that is even worse that is fuelling this conflict. Forget our neighbours for a sec they aren't the real problem im talking about the West. They seem to have a huge grudge against us whether it has to do with our old relationship with the soviet or the black hawk which set their foreign policy a decade back who knows but one thing for sure is they don't like us and they are spending billions of dollars to let us know.

Now are you trying to say a small country like Somalia who has no strong friends at a time it is at its weakest point can counter what Uncle Sam wants? the answer is no and history has shown what he does to lonely countries he doesn't like.

XimanJaale reread what i wrote instead of picking then you might understand what i was talking about

[LiquidHYDROGEN]

Bermooda, there's no doubt that the west, despite lip-service, does not care about a strong and powerful Somalia. But a united people free from division and cuqdad would not be the west's creature. Just look at tiny eritrea and what it has achieved with limited resources and the whole world against it. The issue is for somalis to reconcile first and come together before you look at all the other factors which have caused this situation. I also agree that without a seat in the security council or a friend who has one, somalia is not going to be invading anyone even if it manages to sort itself out. Somalis have to use cunning and strategy to achieve their aims.

[Bermooda]

LiquidHYDROGEN
I knew you was going to mention Eritrea which you have a point but there is a difference between being viciously undermined when you fully control your country to when you don't and have a huge wound to heal. Do you really believe all these so called conference how many were there 18 were led by Somalis. The answe will be no.

In my opinion Somalia needs to start moving away from the West and the Arabs (no one talks about these hairy Arabs on how they too have being hugely undermining us cos of our vast oil reserves clashing with their profits if it ever made it out of the ground through Wahhabism) and instead look towards the East for new friends!

[quark]

We always love to blame foreigners for our problems, sure they don't want to see a strong somalia especially those we share a border with. But the bottom line is the biggest enemy of a somali is another somali. We have to realize it wont happen and just move on. There are many arab countries, why not a couple of somali countries.

[LiquidHYDROGEN]

The east is just as predatory as the west. A skilled statesman can manipulate each one against the other. Part of the reason i think siad barre was inept was because he launched a disastrous war against ethiopia and thereby isolated somalia from the soviet world. He then compounded it by panicking and approaching the US. An experienced tactician wouldn't have made such blunders.

China wants to undermine you and steal your resources as much as the west. Don't be naive. The only difference is with china, you might benefit short-term but in the long term they will screw you. With the west, they will not benefit you in the short-term nor in the long-term. I used eritea as an example of a country the ability to build infrastructure and institutions despite recieving no aid and is economically isolated. The reason the west is against it is because it is proving their neo-liberal garbage wrong and so it must be destroyed. I am not stupid enough to believe somali leaders will suddenly reconcile. It is something that has to done by force. At the moment only SL with help from PL is capable of doing this. But time is running out and the more they isolate themselves, the more the opportunity slips.

As for arabs, they are irrelevant and are neither nor there. They are just an extention of western policy.

[abdikarim86]

The east is just as predatory as the west. A skilled statesman can manipulate each one against the other. China wants to undermine you and steal your resources as much as the west. Don't be naive. The only difference is with china, you might benefit short-term but in the long term they will screw you. With the west, they will not benefit you in the short-term nor in the long-term. I used eritea as an example of a country the ability to build infrastructure and institutions despite recieving no aid and is economically isolated. The reason the west is against it is because it is proving their neo-liberal garbage wrong and so it must be destroyed. I am not stupid enough to believe somali leaders will suddenly reconcile. It is something that has to done by force. At the moment only SL with help from PL is capable of doing this. But time is running out and the more they isolate themselves, the more the opportunity slips.

As for arabs, they are irrelevant and are neither nor there. They are just an extention of western policy.

In your scenario who will do the forcing may I ask?

If there is something somalis are good at is that they do not capitulate to their somali
enemies (foreign enemies on the other hand ...they willingly submit to )

[LiquidHYDROGEN]

The somaliland army may not be able to fully take on ethiopia, but it is more than a match for petty tribal militias, which is what most somali armies are. Combine that with trained man power from Puntland and Galmudug, give it a few years and you have a force capable of not only securing the south but combating any foreign force. If a headstrong somali doesn't obey, kill him. The difference in power will change that. If a somali will not willingly support a noble cause then I don't care. But those who are actively undermining it will be eliminated.

[gurey25]

The somaliland army may not be able to fully take on ethiopia, but it is more than a match for petty tribal militias, which is what most somali armies are. Combine that with trained man power from Puntland and Galmudug, give it a few years and you have a force capable of not only securing the south but combating any foreign force. If a headstrong somali doesn't obey, kill him. The difference in power will change that. If a somali will not willingly support a noble cause then I don't care. But those who are actively undermining it will be eliminated.

Mate have you seen the despicable state of the SL army?
It shit, no more than an overgrown millitia just like other somali millitias.
The only thing we have is a slight edge in discipline but this will not help you against a talented commander.

from over 50 T-55 tanks in the 90's we have around 3 to 5 that we use for parades, the rest are rusting.
from over 200 APC and IFV's we have less than a hundred, basically we are dependent on technicals as much as all oter somalis.
We have one thing going for us though, artillary specially the Bm-21 which is idiot proof and we have been able to maintain them in working condition.
In a slagging match against other milltias we probably will do well.
but all it takes is a talented commander to cause a crushing defeat and humiliation.

[LiquidHYDROGEN]

I know the terrible state of the SL army. I think I made a thread a while back about methods to reform it and whip it into shape. I didn't mention it in the above post because I thought it was a given. TBH for now and also given the nature of Somali terrain all we needs is fast-moving technicals equipped with Machine-gun turrets, and anti-tank/armor piercing rockets and a well disciplined artillery division. We can customise cargo planes to transport troops over long distance. I don't want to get too much into it but yes the SL army needs a overhaul first.

[HusseinHassan]

liberate nfd and western somalia?
first, let's liberate the areas within somalia that has secessionists, terrorists and warlords.