Liberal Muslims defending Islam like usual

[original dervish]

Hydro.....each person must choose their own path.
However, Islam is very clear on such matters....either your in, or your out.....there is no halfway house, or innovation in Islam.

[BeyondQabil]

Hydrogen,

There is NO compromise in diinta. Allah has given us clear guidance to the straight path!

If it was so clear and straight; why do we need to rely so much on scholars and fatwas to tell us what is haram and what's halal?

[original dervish]

[AbdiJohnson]

I still remember the fatwa by that scholar who said there's no awra when it comes to black women and that they don't need a hijab or underwear because they are too ugly to sexually arouse the men.

I am,

Abdi "The scholars are a pathetic joke" Johnson

[hydrogen]

I still remember the fatwa by that scholar who said there's no awra when it comes to black women and that they don't need a hijab or underwear because they are too ugly to sexually arouse the men.

I am,

Abdi "The scholars are a pathetic joke" Johnson

[ZubeirAwal]

Liberal 'Muslims' have no sense of Al Wara wal Bara, that is to associate with Muslims with love and brotherhood/sisterhood, and to take precautions when sitting with those who deem this faith to be a faith of hatred and whatever they label us on their media outlets. As for the Qur'an, consider the following ayah: "Let not the believers take disbelievers for their friends in preference to believers. Whoever does this has no connection with Allah unless you are guarding yourselves against them as a precaution. Allah bids you to beware (only) of Himself. And to Allah is the journeying." [3:28] And He says: "Say, (O Muhammad), If you love Allah, follow me; Allah will love you and forgive you your wrong actions. Allah is Forgiving, Compassionate. Say, Obey Allah and the Messenger. And If they turn away, then surely Allah does not love the disbelievers." [3:31-32] Speaking of the aims of the enemies of Allah, He says: "They long for you to disbelieve even as they disbelieve, so that you may be the same (as them). so do not choose friends from among them until they go out in the way of Allah." [4:89]

Allah clearly points out who to not become 'allies' and 'friends with', what is stated in the following ayah paints a perfect picture of the modern western advocate who is so passionate in demonizing Islam to be something that it is not, here is an American ad actively demonizing Islam openly on a US bus in Washington DC


Allah says,

"O you who have believed, take not those who have taken your religion in ridicule and amusement from among them the ones who were given the Scripture nor the disbelievers as allies. And fear Allah , if you should [truly] be believers." 5:57

Are there repercussions in becoming faithful allies to those who openly cherish the modern day ridicule and generalization of Islam? Of course there are, those that are willing to go to them for dependency, help, alliance and friendship, Allah declares that He will replace them with a people who are concious about the truth, who are loyal to Allah and who are close friends with the believers. This is not a physical replacement, if you thought that then you should really broaden your mind, it is the removal of faith from your heart and the 'letting-go' of all the filths of the world into it, rendering you an individual who is on a highway to Hell.

[hydrogen]

Atheists should stop being nice and tolerable then and be evil and horrible like you. Maybe they will become easy to hate and avoid then.

[ZubeirAwal]

This is nothing to do with toleration and being nice at face value, it's about the general conceptualization that the people you love have for this faith, and that alone is a reason enough for you to halt your blind imitations and glorifications of their consumer-culture, wherein every abomination takes place and is legalized. The people of Allah are content with what the prophet brought in terms having a moral conduct in society, as well as retaining your dignity as a human being, they don't have the wanton-desire to go out and imitate the ruling class today, who will eventually fall, as every empire has fallen.

Now, when it does fall, will you find yourself still dancing to their tunes? Or will you actually implement the use of your rational faculty that Allah has given you?

[hydrogen]

You're a weirdo who defies logic. Gangsterism, thuggery, human rights violations, backwardness, oppression for you is acceptable and you attribute it to Islam.

But if someone mentions human rights, peace, societal progression, intellectualism, education, forward-thinking—then that is leaving the boundaries of Islam and imitating the non-believers. You mock religion just by thinking like that. You and atheists are more alike than you think, you both think Islam is an evil and totalitarian religion. You believe in death, destruction, all the cinematic and adrenaline-pumping stuff and enjoy it whereas the atheist believes in the same thing but distances themselves from it.

By the way, your parents moved to the west so question the faculty that Allah has given them.

[ZubeirAwal]

Gangsterism, thuggery, human rights violation and oppression. Some serious allegations from an unknown perspective, I don't know how you have come to a conclusion that I am support any of those. How do I think that Islam is an evil and totalitarian religion? I merely despise those who do everything in their power to halt any chance of a re-emerging global Islamic identity, and you in this case, are one of those who buy into this " we all the same people let's not let religion put boundaries between us, and walk down the road happily ever after" it sounds nice but all it is, is to diminish your faith inch by inch.

[Cherine]

I still remember the fatwa by that scholar who said there's no awra when it comes to black women and that they don't need a hijab or underwear because they are too ugly to sexually arouse the men.

I am,

Abdi "The scholars are a pathetic joke" Johnson

You don't remember shidh only regurgitating what Dr Yalaxoow used to say. Proof or you're a liar.

[gurey25]

You're a weirdo who defies logic. Gangsterism, thuggery, human rights violations, backwardness, oppression for you is acceptable and you attribute it to Islam.

But if someone mentions human rights, peace, societal progression, intellectualism, education, forward-thinking—then that is leaving the boundaries of Islam and imitating the non-believers. You mock religion just by thinking like that. You and atheists are more alike than you think, you both think Islam is an evil and totalitarian religion. You believe in death, destruction, all the cinematic and adrenaline-pumping stuff and enjoy it whereas the atheist believes in the same thing but distances themselves from it.

By the way, your parents moved to the west so question the faculty that Allah has given them.

I understand where you are coming from and also Zuber as well.
What you do not understand is that you have the mindset of the west, you are framing this whole argument from their perspective,
Human rights is a loaded word and has connotations it is not universal and everyone else has their own take on it.
The same with Societal progress and forward thinking, for the Europeans they have been progressing as a society since the late 1400's for the better. But they seem to confuse social change and intellectual change they are not the same and other cultures have had an entirely different development and even direction.
Example us muslims:
We have not been progressing but regressing both intellectually and socially.
The best religious scholars we have today if sent back in time to the 11th century would be considered simple minded idiots to be honest, and any intellectual would love it there because he would be surrounded by allot of brilliant minds.

I am as western as you but i was able to step back and look at the whole picture.

[LiquidHYDROGEN]

You're a weirdo who defies logic. Gangsterism, thuggery, human rights violations, backwardness, oppression for you is acceptable and you attribute it to Islam.

But if someone mentions human rights, peace, societal progression, intellectualism, education, forward-thinking—then that is leaving the boundaries of Islam and imitating the non-believers. You mock religion just by thinking like that. You and atheists are more alike than you think, you both think Islam is an evil and totalitarian religion. You believe in death, destruction, all the cinematic and adrenaline-pumping stuff and enjoy it whereas the atheist believes in the same thing but distances themselves from it.

By the way, your parents moved to the west so question the faculty that Allah has given them.

I understand where you are coming from and also Zuber as well.
What you do not understand is that you have the mindset of the west, you are framing this whole argument from their perspective,
Human rights is a loaded word and has connotations it is not universal and everyone else has their own take on it.
The same with Societal progress and forward thinking, for the Europeans they have been progressing as a society since the late 1400's for the better. But they seem to confuse social change and intellectual change they are not the same and other cultures have had an entirely different development and even direction.
Example us muslims:
We have not been progressing but regressing both intellectually and socially.
The best religious scholars we have today if sent back in time to the 11th century would be considered simple minded idiots to be honest, and any intellectual would love it there because he would be surrounded by allot of brilliant minds.

I am as western as you but i was able to step back and look at the whole picture.

Walahi very true. The one epoch I would have love to have visited other than ,classical Athens, would be the islamic golden age and the Bayt al Hikma. The likes of ibn Sina, al Ghazali and ibn Taymiyyah. Not to mention the scientists, poets and astronomers. It was a time of tolerance when even ibn Taymiyyah debated with atheists on an intellectual level. I don't see that ever returning. But we as somalis should try to replicate that back home.

Also, is it me or do most of the scientists and scholars in that period hail from persia?

[hydrogen]

You're a weirdo who defies logic. Gangsterism, thuggery, human rights violations, backwardness, oppression for you is acceptable and you attribute it to Islam.

But if someone mentions human rights, peace, societal progression, intellectualism, education, forward-thinking—then that is leaving the boundaries of Islam and imitating the non-believers. You mock religion just by thinking like that. You and atheists are more alike than you think, you both think Islam is an evil and totalitarian religion. You believe in death, destruction, all the cinematic and adrenaline-pumping stuff and enjoy it whereas the atheist believes in the same thing but distances themselves from it.

By the way, your parents moved to the west so question the faculty that Allah has given them.

I understand where you are coming from and also Zuber as well.
What you do not understand is that you have the mindset of the west, you are framing this whole argument from their perspective,
Human rights is a loaded word and has connotations it is not universal and everyone else has their own take on it.
The same with Societal progress and forward thinking, for the Europeans they have been progressing as a society since the late 1400's for the better. But they seem to confuse social change and intellectual change they are not the same and other cultures have had an entirely different development and even direction.
Example us muslims:
We have not been progressing but regressing both intellectually and socially.
The best religious scholars we have today if sent back in time to the 11th century would be considered simple minded idiots to be honest, and any intellectual would love it there because he would be surrounded by allot of brilliant minds.

I am as western as you but i was able to step back and look at the whole picture.

I'm not framing it from a western perspective, Liberal Muslim is just a way to distinguish oneself. For me liberal doesn't mean doesn't mean being open to new ideas but rather not beheading people just because I don't agree with them or their ideas. Sectarian conflict is abundant in Islam and people with monolithic ideas about the religion are the source of that; thinking their version is non-variable.

I'm not saying European society is the model for anything considering their very recent enlightenment but it's two sides of the same coin when Muslims want to 'wage' something against Europe as if progressing beyond desert tents and not violating people's liberty is something bad or peculiar to the rest of the world. Zubeir has a grudge against Europe—for what, I don't know, but it seems to me that hating on them makes it seem as if they have something to hate and when you attempt to discern this, besides the architecture and material things, human rights is all they extend to the rest of the world and that's why people come here. He talks about a global Islamic identity which is nothing short of a dream. Getting your head chopped of is not an identity and besides, if people don't have the platform to express about how they feel, it won't be a Caliph ruling the Islamic world, it would be the man who could import as many AK-47s from third world countries and has a high kill count who will tell you how to feel. Not a single person wants that.

It's disingenuous when someone like Zubeir says "Islamic golden age was the best!!!!!11111" and then wears his saggy pants and listens to low quality rap.

[gurey25]

hydrogen that what i mean by regressing, head chopping was a rare thing in the past, and people were carefull about takfiirism,
allot of freaky cults were tolerated by the khalifs because the reasoning was that if you claimed you were a muslim and behaved as a muslim publicly
no one had the right to kill you.

If you attempted to spread your beliefs that's where the head chopping happened.
This also applied to homosexuality, there was always homosexuality and it was practiced in all levels of society but proclaiming that it is a natural right and campaigning for its acceptance would have lead to a lot of head chopping too.