When will somalis get tired of qabiil?

[thegoodshepherd]

Jasmine, no matter what you think, all somalis practice qabyalad
There no one who is less qabilist, except maybe the cadcads and D&M, all the nomadic clans are super qabilist.
Darood,Hawiye, Dir and Isaaq all share the culture of qabyalad and there is no distinguishing between them.
Your own subjective view of the Somali community is blinding you to this fact that everyone acknowledges

[LightAtNight]

War beenta iska daa you know your people in eey qabill lafaha uga jiraan

[BlackVelvet]

I can't speak for all Somalis. I can speak for my family and what I have observed on SNet.

For example when someone joins SNet, 99% of the time if they're Hawiye they don't talk about qabiil. That is the truth and you know it. I think it's because they may have had the same upbringing I did i.e. qabiil is not something that is discussed and like that guy said in that heated argument about Jubbaland - qabiil waax wax laga xishoodo in certain cultures especially in the South because you have so many neighbours and it's something which divides.

I think the more north you go, the more qabiil you come across and that's just because there isn't that variety. That's my theory.

As for the evils linked with and committed because of qabiil, you are right, it can be subjective.

[zumaale]

Let me answer this question honestly and from my perspective through personal experience.


People back home we can understand (poverty) but why are people in the West interested in qabiil?


When I came on SNet I had a very optimistic and positive view of Somalis and to an extent I still do. However over the years, after landing on the politics section by mistake when a thread I was responding to was moved while I was still in it, I started to notice a pattern in the threads I would subsequently start noticing around me.

There was a lot of bitterness and hate around qabiil and especially directed towards Hawiye. My parents are typical city folk, I was never taught about qabiil in general and I most certainly was not around people who would insult other qabiils so it was a strange experience. That is what sparked my curiosity, trying to understand these people and where they were coming from. Invariably I ended up learning about my qabiil and lineage and history which turned out to be positive.

Now we could just leave it as that, an interesting look at history where everyone has a personal line which connects them to historical figures and heated arguments arising therefrom. However even if you choose to ignore the cuqdad that some people have created in themselves, what I find is that there are people who will say things like "my qabiil deserves twice as much representation as yours" and they are serious when they say it.

That rings alarm bells because while you're busy being all "Somaliweyn" (typical Hawiye) you have people who are seeking your subjugation. Not mine per se since I don't even live in Somalia but that of my people and they are my people because were I there I'd be in the same boat. So as a qurbo joog you realise that we are not one big happy family. When it comes to politics you have your corner. And never has this been more clear to me as a Habar Gidir than when people were cheering for genocide against Habar Gidir in Shabeelada Hoose.

You can either pretend not to notice this sickness that lies in some individuals or you can be honest with yourself and accept that when it comes to politics and qabiil there are people who would at best only celebrate the death of people like you and at worst actively fund or campaign for it.

Where does this leave us? I don't know. What is the solution to this problem? I don't know. It doesn't affect my day to day life in fact it doesn't affect me at all, all I know is that though we have a lot of beautiful things that hold us together as a community there is also something very dark, sick and vulgar which, whether you choose to see it or not, is right there in front of you.

Jasmine, the reason why most Somalis are against habargidir in Shabellaha Hoose is because the violence there is of their own making. People are inherently biased because of qabil but some facts are indisputable. They are the 'bad guys' in the Shabellaha Hoose. Just ask the natives of Shabellaha Hoose how they fared under Indha Cadde.

As for the Darood, they werent exactly saints under Siyad Barre but no clan perpetrated a level of violence that the Hawiye did against innocent minority clans such as the Bantu, Cad Cad etc. I saw it with my own child eyes. Hence, why the Hawiye (Habargidir and Abgal) clan is synonymous with anarchy among the greater Somali populace. That does not mean an entire clan be tarred with the same brush and innocent qurbakoor individuals like yourself should be attacked for what your kinsmen do back home.

Most armchair tribalists here are brainwashed western raised individuals that have never seen a day of war.

You see there was a point in time where I would have just swallowed up all you've said and think nothing of it but now I know a lot more after choosing to educate myself on the topic.

First of all it is people like you I was speaking of. You are actually trying to excuse the killing of civilians using false and baseless accusations. How did an old man, a civilian, who's lived in his farm his entire life bring it upon himself to have his body burnt?

Secondly though it has no place in this particular conversation, the natives of Shabeelada Hoose are Hawiye, go read al Idrisi if you want but don't regurgitate inaccurate statements.

Thirdly there is video evidence that shows Darood militia and the level of brutality they perpetuated during the civil war whereas Caydiid was busy calling on his militia not to kill people because of qabiil, there are videos of this.

And lastly, people this is an example of what I mean. Very obvious attempts to rewrite history, thinly veiled insults directed at your qabiil. Now you could be like I was however many years ago and not be any the wiser or educate yourself and when dragged into it understand the difference between fact and fiction.

Calm down dear and argue rationally please. I never once mentioned that the Hawiye do not have a historical presence in Shabellah Hoose but that the Habargidir specifically are not natives of Shabellaha Hoose. You have the Wacdan, Silcis Goorgarte who have had a historical presence in Shabellaha Hoose. The Abgals to a lesser extent inhabit Shabellaha Hoose too, so do the Murursade. There is no denying the fact that the Habargidir presence in S/Hoose is mostly as a result of the civil war and their appropriation of farmland belonging to individuals and foreign companies. There is not a tuulo in Shabellaha Hoose that one can identify as belonging to the Habargidir. Over the past twenty years, they have established a mercantile and military presence in the major towns of the Shabellaha Hoose but have no rural ties to the land. They supervise farms and pay militias to guard their interest whilst they live the good life in Mogadishu mainly.

Furthermore, some things are as plain as day Jasmine. The abuse against minorities in the Lower Shabelle by habargidir militias is well documented and the reason why innocent civilians such as that farmer was killed is a direct result result of two decades of oppression at the hands of the habargidir. Imagine being told you cannot use the water from the river unless you pay a tax to a militia that hails from a land hundreds of miles away.

Ask yourself this question, why was Barawe not depopulated when the SPM and Darood militias passed through. However, when the USC ventured into Barawe, it resulted in mass rape and looting. For your information, I was there when the USC entered Barawe and remember hearing the screams of the townfolk at night as the USC militia had their way with Barwani women. Ask any Barwani if you do not believe me.

Lastly, no clan is devoid of sin but to defend your clan even when the evidence points to the contrary illustrates how poisonous tribalism can be.

[Methylamine]

Ain't noting wrong with qabiil. It's just how Zoomali's use which is wrong. This is the net what goes down here stays here. In the real world everybody is usually bussy with their life's. Ain't body got time to say fuck Hawiye and get 20 page of nonsense. It just doesn't happen that way. In the real world people use qabiil for specific reasons. For example like qaraan to build a new school for agoonta or to build wells etc Qabiil has it's bad and good it's just how you use it that matters. I learned about qabiil a while ago on snet before that I barely knew my laf. I never asked my parents about it cause I thought it was wrong.

This.

Most of what goes on here is just kaftan and trolling. If you take this place seriously and let it affect your interactions with Somalis in real life, then you need to seek help ASAP.

[zumaale]

Let me answer this question honestly and from my perspective through personal experience.


People back home we can understand (poverty) but why are people in the West interested in qabiil?


When I came on SNet I had a very optimistic and positive view of Somalis and to an extent I still do. However over the years, after landing on the politics section by mistake when a thread I was responding to was moved while I was still in it, I started to notice a pattern in the threads I would subsequently start noticing around me.

There was a lot of bitterness and hate around qabiil and especially directed towards Hawiye. My parents are typical city folk, I was never taught about qabiil in general and I most certainly was not around people who would insult other qabiils so it was a strange experience. That is what sparked my curiosity, trying to understand these people and where they were coming from. Invariably I ended up learning about my qabiil and lineage and history which turned out to be positive.

Now we could just leave it as that, an interesting look at history where everyone has a personal line which connects them to historical figures and heated arguments arising therefrom. However even if you choose to ignore the cuqdad that some people have created in themselves, what I find is that there are people who will say things like "my qabiil deserves twice as much representation as yours" and they are serious when they say it.

That rings alarm bells because while you're busy being all "Somaliweyn" (typical Hawiye) you have people who are seeking your subjugation. Not mine per se since I don't even live in Somalia but that of my people and they are my people because were I there I'd be in the same boat. So as a qurbo joog you realise that we are not one big happy family. When it comes to politics you have your corner. And never has this been more clear to me as a Habar Gidir than when people were cheering for genocide against Habar Gidir in Shabeelada Hoose.

You can either pretend not to notice this sickness that lies in some individuals or you can be honest with yourself and accept that when it comes to politics and qabiil there are people who would at best only celebrate the death of people like you and at worst actively fund or campaign for it.

Where does this leave us? I don't know. What is the solution to this problem? I don't know. It doesn't affect my day to day life in fact it doesn't affect me at all, all I know is that though we have a lot of beautiful things that hold us together as a community there is also something very dark, sick and vulgar which, whether you choose to see it or not, is right there in front of you.

Jasmine, the reason why most Somalis are against habargidir in Shabellaha Hoose is because the violence there is of their own making. People are inherently biased because of qabil but some facts are indisputable. They are the 'bad guys' in the Shabellaha Hoose. Just ask the natives of Shabellaha Hoose how they fared under Indha Cadde.

As for the Darood, they werent exactly saints under Siyad Barre but no clan perpetrated a level of violence that the Hawiye did against innocent minority clans such as the Bantu, Cad Cad etc. I saw it with my own child eyes. Hence, why the Hawiye (Habargidir and Abgal) clan is synonymous with anarchy among the greater Somali populace. That does not mean an entire clan be tarred with the same brush and innocent qurbakoor individuals like yourself should be attacked for what your kinsmen do back home.

Most armchair tribalists here are brainwashed western raised individuals that have never seen a day of war.

You see there was a point in time where I would have just swallowed up all you've said and think nothing of it but now I know a lot more after choosing to educate myself on the topic.

First of all it is people like you I was speaking of. You are actually trying to excuse the killing of civilians using false and baseless accusations. How did an old man, a civilian, who's lived in his farm his entire life bring it upon himself to have his body burnt?

Secondly though it has no place in this particular conversation, the natives of Shabeelada Hoose are Hawiye, go read al Idrisi if you want but don't regurgitate inaccurate statements.

Thirdly there is video evidence that shows Darood militia and the level of brutality they perpetuated during the civil war whereas Caydiid was busy calling on his militia not to kill people because of qabiil, there are videos of this.

And lastly, people this is an example of what I mean. Very obvious attempts to rewrite history, thinly veiled insults directed at your qabiil. Now you could be like I was however many years ago and not be any the wiser or educate yourself and when dragged into it understand the difference between fact and fiction.

Calm down dear and argue rationally please. I never once mentioned that the Hawiye do not have a historical presence in Shabellah Hoose but that the Habargidir specifically are not natives of Shabellaha Hoose. You have the Wacdan, Silcis Goorgarte who have had a historical presence in Shabellaha Hoose. The Abgals to a lesser extent inhabit Shabellaha Hoose too, so do the Murursade. There is no denying the fact that the Habargidir presence in S/Hoose is mostly as a result of the civil war and their appropriation of farmland belonging to individuals and foreign companies. There is not a tuulo in Shabellaha Hoose that one can identify as belonging to the Habargidir. Over the past twenty years, they have established a mercantile and military presence in the major towns of the Shabellaha Hoose but have no rural ties to the land. They supervise farms and pay militias to guard their interest whilst they live the good life in Mogadishu mainly.

Furthermore, some things are as plain as day Jasmine. The abuse against minorities in the Lower Shabelle by habargidir militias is well documented and the reason why innocent civilians such as that farmer was killed is a direct result result of two decades of oppression at the hands of the habargidir. Imagine being told you cannot use the water from the river unless you pay a tax to a militia that hails from a land hundreds of miles away.

Ask yourself this question, why was Barawe not depopulated when the SPM and Darood militias passed through. However, when the USC ventured into Barawe, it resulted in mass rape and looting. For your information, I was there when the USC entered Barawe and remember hearing the screams of the townfolk at night as the USC militia had their way with Barwani women. Ask any Barwani if you do not believe me.

Lastly, no clan is devoid of sin but to defend your clan even when the evidence points to the contrary illustrates how poisonous tribalism can be.

[BlackVelvet]

There you go again trying to excuse the killing of innocent people.

I don't make excuses for wrong doing, I never have. There are messed up people from every qabiil and just as you share stories you have heard about Hawiye men who rape, there are videos of Darood men bragging about rape. As a female trust me when I say they all deserve to go to hell.

As for whatever Indhocadde did while in Sh.Hoose if your solution is to call for genocide 20 years later, you are no better than him, probably worse because whereas he was extorting you want to see bloodshed of anyone and everyone who happens to share his qabiil.

[Rabshoole]

Jasmine will never see passed an old man in comparison to the thousands that were killed before and after him, that is her way of justifying her clans innocence

Ask yourself this question, why was Barawe not depopulated when the SPM and Darood militias passed through. However, when the USC ventured into Barawe, it resulted in mass rape and looting. For your information, I was there when the USC entered Barawe and remember hearing the screams of the townfolk at night as the USC militia had their way with Barwani women. Ask any Barwani if you do not believe me.

I think your missing the bigger picture here, whatever happened to Tunni they brought it upon themselves, you do realize Tunni in Both S/hoose and J/dhexe sided with Darood looting and killing everyone who wasn't darood, theirs actually a video online proving this, USC taught them a lesson in Barawe for their betrayal which was their stronghold at the time.

[BlackVelvet]

Armaan you know me better than that. If someone messes with you and they're trying to hurt you, defend yourself, hurt them back if you must. That person. Not some defenceless person on the sideline. Who does that?

Xata when qabiils do that arsasho thing it's the young and prominent not the old and frail.


Also when you say "her clan" you mean Indhocadde, be bloody specific, there's quite a few of us. Indhocadde himself is your people since he was born and bred in Sh.Hoose.

[eliteSomali]

Is jasmine asking why people hate habar gidir? Jk Let me ask you a question Jasmine: Have you lived through the civil war? Have you seen what happened there first hand? HG effed up big time but they weren't alone. The niggas that really effed up real good in the civil war were HGs, abgaals, Mjs, OGs, marehans. Note that poor innocent folks who happened to be part of these clans also suffered. The people who didn't deserve it but suffered the most were reer xamars and raxanwayns.

There were more casualties on the darod side than hawiye because after the government collapsed, a qabiil cleansing begun in xamar. Also majority of the wars took place in places where the majority of the population were darood, hence the more casualties. I know a guy who killed a darood guy who was married to his sister in xamar in 1991 just because. I know another who killed his uncle in xamar around the same time. From that point on, hawiye started killing anyone who said they were darood to the point where they came as far as kismayo. No one should be hated for what happened some 20+ odd years ago but you should understand the reasons as to why there is such hate.

[zumaale]

There you go again trying to excuse the killing of innocent people.

I don't make excuses for wrong doing, I never have. There are messed up people from every qabiil and just as you share stories you have heard about Hawiye men who rape, there are videos of Darood men bragging about rape. As a female trust me when I say they all deserve to go to hell.

As for whatever Indhocadde did while in Sh.Hoose if your solution is to call for genocide 20 years later, you are no better than him, probably worse because whereas he was extorting you want to see bloodshed of anyone and everyone who happens to share his qabiil.

You are unfairly making assumptions about what I believe to be just and fair. Did I condone what happened to that innocent man on his farm? No. Secondly, did I make excuses for what the Daroods did during the civil war? no. I just highlighted what happened in Barawe and to a lesser extent in Shabellaha Hoose when the Habargidir were in a position of authority and the reasons why there is a backlash against them. My argument revolves around the current state of the Shabellaha Hoose and not what injustices Daroods or Hawiye committed against each other. Just because I highlight the the reasons why docile clans in Shabellaha Hoose are opposed to Habargidir does not mean I support the killing of innocent civilians. All I have done is identify the root causes of conflict in Shabella Hoose and to associate that with supporting murder is immature.

[zumaale]

Jasmine will never see passed an old man in comparison to the thousands that were killed before and after him, that is her way of justifying her clans innocence

Ask yourself this question, why was Barawe not depopulated when the SPM and Darood militias passed through. However, when the USC ventured into Barawe, it resulted in mass rape and looting. For your information, I was there when the USC entered Barawe and remember hearing the screams of the townfolk at night as the USC militia had their way with Barwani women. Ask any Barwani if you do not believe me.

I think your missing the bigger picture here, whatever happened to Tunni they brought it upon themselves, you do realize Tunni in Both S/hoose and J/dhexe sided with Darood looting and killing everyone who wasn't darood, theirs actually a video online proving this, USC taught them a lesson in Barawe for their betrayal which was their stronghold at the time.

Warya, I am referring to the light skinned Barwanis, not the Geeljire Tunnis.

[hunterKING]

f-king savages.


Shout out to the locusts (HG).

[zumaale]

Armaan you know me better than that. If someone messes with you and they're trying to hurt you, defend yourself, hurt them back if you must. That person. Not some defenceless person on the sideline. Who does that?

Xata when qabiils do that arsasho thing it's the young and prominent not the old and frail.


Also when you say "her clan" you mean Indhocadde, be bloody specific, there's quite a few of us. Indhocadde himself is your people since he was born and bred in Sh.Hoose.

Jasmine, you know better than that, we are Somali; we identify by clan not by place of birth. How many Daroods or Isaaqs born in Mogadishu do you see claiming Mogadishu as their deegan. Qoofkasto deegan bu leeyehe, Habargidir waa Galgudud iyo Mudug.

[JamalAddow]

Zumaale I shed a tear ukhti. I'm wandering if you've seen so much war and bloodshed, what is the solution for southern Somalia. Cuz I know Jubaland and the SFG will only bring more war and suffering, so is there any alternative?