Damn This forum is becoming Wahabia hang-out!

[FAH1223]

[quote="SomeGuy"]Fah1223,

No i didn't say let's change the Qoran. But What i am saying is let's change how we apply it in our daily life. Many of our environment changed and we need that our relgion reflect that. And I will give an exmaple. The prophet lived 23 as prophet, 13 years in Mecca and 10 years in Medina. In these 23 years Islam going through a lot of changes. For instance, in Mecca muslims were allowed to drink alcohol. In Medina they were forbidden to pray while they were drank. And then later Medina all alcohol were banned!.

My question to you is : Why Allah did not bann Alcohol from the begining?. What happened the Ayah that forbidens muslim to pray when they are drank?. basically that Ayah is null and void. My point here is Islam went through a lot of change and If the Phrophet(puh) were alive, things weren't the same. We would have been leaders rather than followers in every field. It looks like we froze our progressive thinking!.


[/quote]

You are talking about when the Qur'an was first being revealed in the time of Nabi Rasulullah Sallahu Alayhi Wasalam.

Allah did not send down all the laws at one time. The Quran was sent down over a period of 23 years. In the first 13 years of Mecca, none of these laws were sent down. As a matter of fact, if you analyze the Meccan Surahs, they all talk about Tawheed, Shirk, Day of Judgment, and Hell, Heaven etc. This was done in order to first build up the faith of the believers. Then in Madina, the laws were sent down. This is to teach us that people change gradually and not just overnight. This is the wisdom that Muslims even apply today. That if there is a sinner and wishes to turn back to God, he doesn’t conform to all the of laws and quit all the sins he does over night. His mind would eventually pop and lose hope of ever changing. But a person is to change gradually.

Drinking was a part of the lives of the people at that time and Allah in his divine wisdom had them quit gradually. This was Allah’s plan the whole time. But if Allah were to completely prohibit drinking all at once, it would have been very difficult for them to abide by that law immediately. This simply shows Allah’s mercy and consideration for his creation.



The gradual prohibition came in 3 verses in the following order:

Surah 2:219

They ask you about intoxicants and games of chance. Say: In both of them there is a great sin and means of profit for men, and their sin is greater than their profit. And they ask you as to what they should spend. Say: What you can spare. Thus does Allah make clear to you the communications, that you may ponder

Then....

Surah 4:43

O you who believe! do not go near prayer when you are Intoxicated until you know (well) what you say.....

Then....

Surah 5:90

O ye who believe ! wine and the game of chance and idols and divining arrows are only the abomination of Satan's handiwork. So shun each one of them that you may prosper.

[SomeGuy]

Alluring,

As much as I respect your opinion, I have to disagree with you. You see there are difference between Islam and Whahabia cults.
What you don't seem to understand is muslims of today don't have same understanding of Qoran and Suna. There are many school of thoughts like any other schools. Yes, we all believe in same qoran from cover to cover . And also we believe same Sunna--. However, we are in each other's throat because we don't agree the translation and understanding of that same books (qoran and sunna).

If we are all same, how come Whahabia can't see any other islamic school of thoughts?. Do you know in Somali sufia School of thought are nearly extinct species.

Are you telling me We have to listen to Whahabia Shiekh who would say:

1) you can't take student loan.
2) you cann't vote
3) you cann't buy a house
4) you cann't invest your money in the stock market
5) you cann'r have credit card
6) as female you have wear vield purdah tip to toe
7) you can't wear deodrant
you can't take interest money from your saving account.
9) you can't great opposite gender even if you being interviewed
10) as female you have stay home.

... on and on

are you telling that kind of Islam is not problem Alluring?.

And I say 'that kind of Islam' here.

[Biif Baaf]

Alluring: you support A. Yusuf (a warlord), you are the last person to be pointing fingers at anyone, specially Aweys who never took part in the Daarood Vs. Hawiye wars. Both Aweys & his brother were al-itihad men from early on, that is the correlation. Like I said before, when you stop supporting A. Yusuf, you will have more credibility than now. Also, aren't you the same person that takes cheap shots at Hawiye in every thread, c'mon now!

[SomeGuy]

Fah1223

Indeed it seems you don't have a clue what you are talking about.

Do you know what 'Mansuukha' is ?. It is when ayah's nullied and voided.

and this Ayah is null and void.

>Surah 4:43
>O you who believe! do not go near prayer when you are Intoxicated until you >know (well) what you say.....



What is the point of not praying when you are drank, if you are not allowed to drink in the first place?.

Can I drink and say "Oh u see I am NOT going to near prayer when I am Intoxicated . I only do that when I am done all my prayer"?.


That Ayah is mansuukha--canceled and vioded. You can ask anyone you like.

Someguy.

[Alluring]

Someguy

Wahhabism is a not a mainstream form of Islam, on top of that it is what a specific man believed and wanted others to adhere to.


Biif,

You are a qabiilist yourself, so in order for your words to have substance you start pointing fingers. But what I wanted to address is that, A.Yusuf did not use religion as a basis to garner support. Aweys did that. That is the DIFFERENCE, got it?

What was Aweys doing for the past 17 years? Not waving peace signs that\'s for sure!

[Biif Baaf]

loool@"you can't take interest from your savings account."

SomeGuy is either ignorant of Islam or is another gaal-wanna-be.

In Surah Aal-Imran, verse no.130 Allah says,

"Oh you who believe! Devour not usury (interest) doubled and multiplied; but fear Allah that you may prosper."

so, I guess a Wahabi came up with the above verse then?

[Phd in naago kudis]

caasho yusuf is majerten qabiliste

[SomeGuy]

Alluring,

Now we are in a same page. I have no problem with Islam as long as we can separate between Islam and Whahabia brand of Islam.

That is all.

Someguy

[Biif Baaf]

Alluring: Aweys was trying to establish an al-itihadi caliphate in Somalia, what has A. Yusuf been up to?

[Alluring]

Someguy we are not on the same page, walal. lol

I do not want anything in the Quran to change. But I sure as heck do not believe in what Wahhabism adhere to.

Biif

I feel sorry for you, walal.

[Biif Baaf]

Alluring: i don't want your sympathy...just answer my question.

[Alluring]

Biif

One word: PUNTLAND...Do not forget that Xamar was the only city fully constructed by Siad Barre (AUN). Puntland had to start from scratch!

You believe that Aweys is a good guy by killing people since the early 90s? Is that your means of justification for being a Muslim?

Only Allah (SWT) has the right to take lives, not by human intervention. It is cowardly, regardless of the party who is partaking in the activities.

[SomeGuy]

biif baaf,

kid , do you know how banks work? do you know what inflation is?. Let me give you an example you drop out. 1,000 USD of today doesn't have same purchasing power after two years. In other words, two years from now you can't buy same thing you can buy tody with that money. If shirt cost 10 US, two years after it will likely be more than 10 US. That what is called inflation(sicir barar in Somali). In USA inflation is between 2% and 3%. This mean 10 US today will be 10.20 or 10.30 after one year.


And that is why when you deposit money in the bank, the bank will give you 1% or something as incentive to cover your lost purchase power. Bank earn money because of other people money and give back peanuts--pennies!. Why not taking that pennies to cover your inflation then?.

When Shiek is talking about Halaal and Haraam that sheikh should be knowing the subject he/she is talking about. And based on that knowledge and based on Qoran, he/she has to come to conclusion. And more importantly, the Shiekh should know the environment and necessity of that environment.

Someguy

[FAH1223]

[quote="SomeGuy"]Fah1223

Indeed it seems you don't have a clue what you are talking about.

Do you know what 'Mansuukha' is ?. It is when ayah's nullied and voided.

and this Ayah is null and void.

>Surah 4:43
>O you who believe! do not go near prayer when you are Intoxicated until you >know (well) what you say.....



What is the point of not praying when you are drank, if you are not allowed to drink in the first place?.

Can I drink and say "Oh u see I am NOT going to near prayer when I am Intoxicated . I only do that when I am done all my prayer"?.


That Ayah is mansuukha--canceled and vioded. You can ask anyone you like.

Someguy.[/quote]

you missed the point

the gradual prohibition of Alcohol

There is no contradiction in the Qur'an

[Biif Baaf]

[quote="SomeGuy"]Alluring,

1) you can't take student loan.
-Because of interest, which is forbidden, according to the Qur'an.
2) you cann't vote
-Common sense here, voting in a non-Muslim election can result in voting for a candidate that will enforce policies which can be harmful to Muslims.
3) you cann't buy a house
-You can buy a house as long it does not involve interest/usury.
4) you cann't invest your money in the stock market
-You can, as long as you invest in Sharia compliant stocks or things which are not forbidden: e.g. alcohol, pork, pornography, etc.
5) you cann'r have credit card
-Again, as long as the credit card does not cause the Muslim to incure interest, but if interest/usury is involved, then it is forbidden.
6) as female you have wear vield purdah tip to toe
-Lies.
7) you can't wear deodrant
-More lies.
you can't take interest money from your saving account.
-Because interest/usury is forbidden according to the Qur'an: In Surah Al-Nisaa’ Allah states in verse 161:

"That they took usury though they were forbidden and they devoured peoples wealth wrongfully; we have prepared for those amongst them who reject faith a grievous chastisement."

9) you can't great opposite gender even if you being interviewed
-Modesty is expected of every Muslim, regardless of gender.
10) as female you have stay home.
-Lie, any Muslim woman can work outside the home, as long she is doing acceptable work.
....[/quote]

SomeGuy: stop your futile attempts at discrediting Islam. You are a lost cause.