Independece for somaliland, your thoughts???

[Oxidant]

Somalilanders are hypocrites. They want self-determination. Yet they won't allow self-determination for the Dervish warriors from Sool,Sanag and Cayn. But don't worry liberation is best won by the gun.

[SahanGalbeed]

We do not hold anybody hostage , if they wanna join the Ogaden in Jigjiga they can do do , but that would be Ethiopia .

[Oxidant]

We do not hold anybody hostage , if they wanna join the Ogaden in Jigjiga they can do do , but that would be Ethiopia .

Didn't Somaliland officals get stoned away in Laascaanood?


Sool,Sanag and Cayn belongs to the Puntland

[aka-peace-]

I support the self-determination of SNM Somalis if they want to leave but since the historical colonial territory includes Somali clans who do not hold themselves under British lines on the desert and have qualms about seceding, I support their self-determination to stay inside Somalia if they chose to.

For many people, clan is a not a defining feature of their identity. Its a contributing factor. However most of those who claim that Sool,Sanaag, and Buhoodle are under occupation of Somaliland are using historical irredentist overtones and clannish dogmas to justify these regions annexation from Somaliland.

The people of Sool and Sanag have accepted the mandate of the Somaliland government. While some of the people of Sool and Sanag are off a different clans to the mainstay of Somaliland diverse population, Sool and Sanag should not be annexed to Puntland or South Somalia on the grounds of their inhabitants common clan membership. The people of Sool and Sanag shared with the people of Somaliland a land, marriage lineage, cultural heritage, tradition, common customs, history, similar dialects, folkloric dances, upbringing, educational system and a colonial system. With the people of Puntland and south Somalia, they share a common clan lineage.

Identity is constructed, its not biological and for many people including those from Sool and Sanaag and many more have accepted the will and the mandate of the Somaliland Government and its ability to secure peace and stability as well economic development and progress. Unlike most other tribal entities in the Somali peninsula, Somaliland has made the transition towards building a consensus amongst its diverse population to live together in peace and harmony.

God Bless

"marcassmith" you are the first so called 'somalilander' that I have these on forums, who was able to hold together a chain of thought for the duration of a single post in connection to this topic

however, your post is riddled with so much fallacious, inaccuracies and lies that one would have to write a whole book in order to address every single one of them. nevertheless I will spare the lecture and only address few points and slogans in your rhetoric.
as somalilanders I'm sure you support and advocate for 'somaliland' and her peoples right to self-determination and I also suspect you just like comrades expect other Somalis to respect in principle 'somaliland's' right self-determination.

remember the United Nations Charter of 1945, defines right to self-determination as, a fundamental principle of human rights law,(1) is an individual and collective right to "freely determine . . . political status and [to] freely pursue . . . economic, social and cultural development."

now lets see how dear the principles of the right to self-determination and democracy are to you. in your post you say that 'he people of Sool and Sanag have accepted the mandate of the Somaliland government'. how have the of people of sool and sanaag 'accepted the mandate of the Somaliland government' when the somaliland goverment does not have legitimate a authority over them, since they have not given a mandate to that entity or their consent to its government. the people of sool, sanaag iyo cayn have never participated in any of 'somaliland's' elections nor have they elected separate body to represent them in their dealings with 'somaliland'. they have never casted a single vote on that entities 'democratic' referendum and which supposedly 97% of the population voted to secede. so tell me how have the people of SSC accepted 'somaliland's' mandate. i dont where you get democratic credentials from but what i do know is that a manade is something that is given by the people.



you also claim that The people of Sool and Sanag shared with the people of Somaliland a land, marriage lineage, cultural heritage, tradition, common customs, history, similar dialects, folkloric dances, upbringing, educational system and a colonial system. With the people of Puntland and south Somalia, they share a common clan lineage
the idea that the people of sool sanaag iyo cayn share those things with the entire population of 'somaliland, whereas on the other hand they only share a common lineage With the people of Puntland and south Somalia is quite frankly one of the most outrages and ludicrous things I have ever heard. the people of SSC only share 'land, marriage lineage, cultural heritage, tradition, common customs, history, similar dialects, folkloric dances, upbringing' with only some of the population of 'somaliland' and to contrary they share all that you have mentioned PLUS a common lineage with the people of puntland, and central somalia. as for your claim that we share the 'colonial system', we were never part of the colonial system, we were at war with colonial system and we will never claim the colonial legacy as part of our heritage.

sxb somaliland is tribal entity, nothing more and nothing less, in fact if somaliland had Abraham Lincoln father figure at its inception he would have probably called it a Government of the qabil, by the qabil, for the qabil. this why the 'somaliland' constitution grants citizenship to every isaaq whether he or she is from jabouti, kililka 5 or where ever. the irony and the hypocrisy here is bloody unbelievable. A ogaden, marexaan or majerteen in sool sanaag iyo cayn is an ajanbi im told but a isaaq from kililka 5 and jabouti is a citizen. incredible!!!( im guessing share a common history with these lot too). they expect me to abandon my country and embrace their tribalism as my nationalism

sxb listen we either all abandon tribalism and embrace another as Somali brother under one nation or we all go our separate ways where you have the right to self-determination and i have right to self-determination. you know Lakum dinukum wa-leyah dini

[Oxidant]

I support the self-determination of SNM Somalis if they want to leave but since the historical colonial territory includes Somali clans who do not hold themselves under British lines on the desert and have qualms about seceding, I support their self-determination to stay inside Somalia if they chose to.

For many people, clan is a not a defining feature of their identity. Its a contributing factor. However most of those who claim that Sool,Sanaag, and Buhoodle are under occupation of Somaliland are using historical irredentist overtones and clannish dogmas to justify these regions annexation from Somaliland.

The people of Sool and Sanag have accepted the mandate of the Somaliland government. While some of the people of Sool and Sanag are off a different clans to the mainstay of Somaliland diverse population, Sool and Sanag should not be annexed to Puntland or South Somalia on the grounds of their inhabitants common clan membership. The people of Sool and Sanag shared with the people of Somaliland a land, marriage lineage, cultural heritage, tradition, common customs, history, similar dialects, folkloric dances, upbringing, educational system and a colonial system. With the people of Puntland and south Somalia, they share a common clan lineage.

Identity is constructed, its not biological and for many people including those from Sool and Sanaag and many more have accepted the will and the mandate of the Somaliland Government and its ability to secure peace and stability as well economic development and progress. Unlike most other tribal entities in the Somali peninsula, Somaliland has made the transition towards building a consensus amongst its diverse population to live together in peace and harmony.

God Bless

"marcassmith" you are the first so called 'somalilander' that I have these on forums, who was able to hold together a chain of thought for the duration of a single post in connection to this topic

however, your post is riddled with so much fallacious, inaccuracies and lies that one would have to write a whole book in order to address every single one of them. nevertheless I will spare the lecture and only address few points and slogans in your rhetoric.
as somalilanders I'm sure you support and advocate for 'somaliland' and her peoples right to self-determination and I also suspect you just like comrades think expect other Somalis to respect in principle 'somaliland's' right self-determination.

remember the United Nations Charter of 1945, defines right to self-determination as, a fundamental principle of human rights law,(1) is an individual and collective right to "freely determine . . . political status and [to] freely pursue . . . economic, social and cultural development."



now lets see how dear the principles of the right to self-determination and are to you. in your post you say that 'he people of Sool and Sanag have accepted the mandate of the Somaliland government'. how have the of sool and sanaag 'accepted the mandate of the Somaliland government' when the somaliland goverment does not have legitimate authority over them, since they have not given a mandate that entity or consent to it government. the people of sool, sanaag iyo cayn have never participated in any of 'somaliland's' elections nor have they elected separate body to represent them in their dealings with 'somaliland'. they have never casted a single vote that entities 'democratic' referendum and which supposedly 97% of the population voted to secede. so tell me how has have the people of SSC gave accepted 'somaliland's' mandate. i dont where you get democratic credentials from but what i do know is that a manade is something that is given by the people.



you also claim that The people of Sool and Sanag shared with the people of Somaliland a land, marriage lineage, cultural heritage, tradition, common customs, history, similar dialects, folkloric dances, upbringing, educational system and a colonial system. With the people of Puntland and south Somalia, they share a common clan lineage
the idea that the people of sool sanaag iyo cayn share those things with the entire population of 'somaliland, whereas on the other hand they share only share a common clan With the people of Puntland and south Somalia is quite frankly one of the most outrages and ludicrous things I have ever heard. the people of SSC only share 'land, marriage lineage, cultural heritage, tradition, common customs, history, similar dialects, folkloric dances, upbringing' with only some of the population of 'somaliland' and to contrary they share that you mentioned PLUS a common lineage with the people of puntland, and central somalia.

sxb somaliland is tribal entity, nothing more and thing less, in fact if somaliland had Abraham Lincoln father figure at its inception he would have probably called it a Government of the qabil, by the qabil, for the qabil. this why the 'somaliland' constitution grants citizenship to every isaaq whether he or she is from jabouti, kililka 5 or where every. the irony and the hypocrisy here is bloody unbelievable. A ogaden, marexaan or majerteen sool sanaag iyo cayn is an ajanbi from a foreign country and a isaaq from kililka 5 and jabouti is a citizen. incredible!!!( im guessing share a common history with these lot too).

sxb listen we either all abandon tribalism and embrace another is Somali brother under one nation or all go our separate ways where you have the right to self-determination and i have right to self-determination. you know Lakum dinukum wa-leyah dini

Great post, wallahi.

[Uganda]

I don;t want to see Somaliland as a seperate nation Somalia should be one nation,after Sharif gets the south in order the movement will spread up north to desert ville

Once thats all done and peace has come to Somalia, I will be taking many long vacations trips to Somalia to see my fellow black brothers and sisters.

[anilweyne]

We should cut off the semi arid Sool, Borama and keep every millimeter of Isaaq land in Sanaag. I'm for 100% demarcation of every inch of Isaaqia-land
We're better off without them. Would you support your taxes collected from Hargeysa, Burco or Berbera port given away to build a remote village in sool?

[The_Emperior5]

Marcussmith is right the people of sool and badhan share more with Somalilands people then the rest of somalis Cultural tradition customs i mean The elders of Sool and Badhan call their elders not Isim just recently when the joined puntland they where majeertenezised . they started calling their elders isim, but the correct term they used to call their elders was Cuqaasha and salaadinta.The same way all the other somalilanders do About marriage The sool and badhan regions have a custom called Xeedhada , Something that is unfamiliar with the koonfurians , even the Colonialist Thought of these people are they Related to these people or are they A different people u guys even confused the colonialist lolz.
The Somaliland Constitution is a fair constitution the 5 tribes of somaliland are all well known Ciise isaaq Samaroon Warsangali And Dhulbahante if you are any of these 5 tribes whether ur from Djibouti or Ethiopia or koonfuria u will be automatically a somalilander . I mean you guys where part of somaliland in 1960 had your own political party and seats in the parliament
Besides you also said we didn’t for the for Somaliland constitution or the referendum of independence, well if you don’t like to participate in the democratic system in somaliland well you shouldn’t talk u got the chance to vote if you didn’t its your own problem, I also like to add u were well represented in the burco reconciliation meetings and u were also present when somaliland was declared independent in burco both your garaads were present garaad cabdiqani and garad selebaan both signed the independence declaration.
Somaliland is fair and united
Suldaan Emperior

[marcassmith]

Aka-Peace,

I think you have deliberately misconstrued my post and have taken it out of its original context.

sxb somaliland is tribal entity, nothing more and nothing less, in fact if somaliland had Abraham Lincoln father figure at its inception he would have probably called it a Government of the qabil, by the qabil, for the qabil. this why the 'somaliland' constitution grants citizenship to every isaaq whether he or she is from jabouti, kililka 5 or where ever. the irony and the hypocrisy here is bloody unbelievable. A ogaden, marexaan or majerteen in sool sanaag iyo cayn is an ajanbi im told but a isaaq from kililka 5 and jabouti is a citizen. incredible!!!( im guessing share a common history with these lot too). they expect me to abandon my country and embrace their tribalism as my nationalism

Every citizen of Somaliland is treated fairly, his/her safety, progress and personal liberty is enshrined in the 2001 Somaliland Constitution. Lets not resort to allegations and wishful thinking. On your view that '' the 'somaliland' constitution grants citizenship to every isaaq whether he or she is from jabouti, kililka 5 or where ever. the irony and the hypocrisy here is bloody unbelievable''. This is pure fabrication full of tribal overtones, Somaliland is a democracy and is built on a consensus amongst its diverse population. In Somaliland, today you will see the diversity in our major city and towns, that there are people of all tribal background. As I mentioned, earlier, tribe is not a defining feature of a person identity, its only a contributing factor.

you also claim that The people of Sool and Sanag shared with the people of Somaliland a land, marriage lineage, cultural heritage, tradition, common customs, history, similar dialects, folkloric dances, upbringing, educational system and a colonial system. With the people of Puntland and south Somalia, they share a common clan lineage
the idea that the people of sool sanaag iyo cayn share those things with the entire population of 'somaliland, whereas on the other hand they only share a common lineage With the people of Puntland and south Somalia is quite frankly one of the most outrages and ludicrous things I have ever heard. the people of SSC only share 'land, marriage lineage, cultural heritage, tradition, common customs, history, similar dialects, folkloric dances, upbringing' with only some of the population of 'somaliland' and to contrary they share all that you have mentioned PLUS a common lineage with the people of puntland, and central somalia. as for your claim that we share the 'colonial system', we were never part of the colonial system, we were at war with colonial system and we will never claim the colonial legacy as part of our heritage.

This ideas has been espoused in the past and I do not wish to explain myself again. However, it is quite obvious from your post that you tend to think along tribal lines and irredentist tendencies, which is most unfortunate, despite the times we live. Today everything is based on interest not tribe. While, there are still vestiges of those who still cling on the notion of a great Somalia in Sool and Sanaag region, the vast majority, if not almost of these people are content with the current arrangement. Somaliland government has been using positive acts and good deeds to convince these people that they are better off with Somaliland than any other entity, never using force nor attempts to 'divide and rule', as it were. Somaliland has been responsible for securing peace and stability in this region, when under the Puntland administration, Sool and in particular Las Anod was under constant attack and the people lived in intimidation, today the situation has improved beyond recognition and the people of las anod are living in peace and making progress after many years of neglect, lawlessness and living in a state of warfare.

There is nothing stopping the people of Sool,Sanaag, and Buhoodle from culturaly, politically, economically, linguistically, and maritally integrating with the rest of Somalia. People, ultimately have choices and the Somaliland government will not stand in the way of those who seek to interact with other Somalis. Freedom of travel - to chose and settle wherever you like in the realm has been enshrined under the 2001 Somaliland Constitution.


God Bless

[aka-peace-]

marcassmith, i knew you couldnt hold together a chain thought for more than post, just like your fellow landers but then again it is always difficult to hold together a tribal fairtale.

Every citizen of Somaliland is treated fairly, his/her safety, progress and personal liberty is enshrined in the 2001 Somaliland Constitution. Lets not resort to allegations and wishful thinking. On your view that '' the 'somaliland' constitution grants citizenship to every isaaq whether he or she is from jabouti, kililka 5 or where ever. the irony and the hypocrisy here is bloody unbelievable''. This is pure fabrication full of tribal overtones, Somaliland is a democracy and is built on a consensus amongst its diverse population. In Somaliland, today you will see the diversity in our major city and towns, that there are people of all tribal background. As I mentioned, earlier, tribe is not a defining feature of a person identity, its only a contributing factor.

so you think that is fabrication. this what the constitution 'somaliland' says
'CITIZEN: means an individual who descended[8] from persons who were resident in the territory of Somaliland on 26 June 1960 or before, and a person who had Somaliland citizenship conferred on him lawfully'. the sad thing thing about this not the fact that i cought in a lie, the sad thing is that you know nothing of this beloved constitution that you so highly speak of. you come here and you preach constitution and its promises on democracy, freedom and equility when you dont even know what that constitution says. mate give this constitution business a rest and join the rest of your knuckleheads in posting fidhi ku dirir posts.

[aka-peace-]

.

[Voltage]

Marcussmith is right the people of sool and badhan share more with Somalilands people then the rest of somalis Cultural tradition customs i mean The elders of Sool and Badhan call their elders not Isim just recently when the joined puntland they where majeertenezised . they started calling their elders isim, but the correct term they used to call their elders was Cuqaasha and salaadinta.The same way all the other somalilanders do About marriage The sool and badhan regions have a custom called Xeedhada , Something that is unfamiliar with the koonfurians , even the Colonialist Thought of these people are they Related to these people or are they A different people u guys even confused the colonialist lolz.
The Somaliland Constitution is a fair constitution the 5 tribes of somaliland are all well known Ciise isaaq Samaroon Warsangali And Dhulbahante if you are any of these 5 tribes whether ur from Djibouti or Ethiopia or koonfuria u will be automatically a somalilander . I mean you guys where part of somaliland in 1960 had your own political party and seats in the parliament
Besides you also said we didn’t for the for Somaliland constitution or the referendum of independence, well if you don’t like to participate in the democratic system in somaliland well you shouldn’t talk u got the chance to vote if you didn’t its your own problem, I also like to add u were well represented in the burco reconciliation meetings and u were also present when somaliland was declared independent in burco both your garaads were present garaad cabdiqani and garad selebaan both signed the independence declaration.
Somaliland is fair and united
Suldaan Emperior

Kuma rabaan

[The_Emperior5]

Marcussmith is right the people of sool and badhan share more with Somalilands people then the rest of somalis Cultural tradition customs i mean The elders of Sool and Badhan call their elders not Isim just recently when the joined puntland they where majeertenezised . they started calling their elders isim, but the correct term they used to call their elders was Cuqaasha and salaadinta.The same way all the other somalilanders do About marriage The sool and badhan regions have a custom called Xeedhada , Something that is unfamiliar with the koonfurians , even the Colonialist Thought of these people are they Related to these people or are they A different people u guys even confused the colonialist lolz.
The Somaliland Constitution is a fair constitution the 5 tribes of somaliland are all well known Ciise isaaq Samaroon Warsangali And Dhulbahante if you are any of these 5 tribes whether ur from Djibouti or Ethiopia or koonfuria u will be automatically a somalilander . I mean you guys where part of somaliland in 1960 had your own political party and seats in the parliament
Besides you also said we didn’t for the for Somaliland constitution or the referendum of independence, well if you don’t like to participate in the democratic system in somaliland well you shouldn’t talk u got the chance to vote if you didn’t its your own problem, I also like to add u were well represented in the burco reconciliation meetings and u were also present when somaliland was declared independent in burco both your garaads were present garaad cabdiqani and garad selebaan both signed the independence declaration.
Somaliland is fair and united
Suldaan Emperior

Kuma rabaan

Ma wax la isla baryaya Somaliland Waxa anagu uma joojino sxb

[Somalian_Boqor]

Marcussmith is right the people of sool and badhan share more with Somalilands people then the rest of somalis Cultural tradition customs i mean The elders of Sool and Badhan call their elders not Isim just recently when the joined puntland they where majeertenezised . they started calling their elders isim, but the correct term they used to call their elders was Cuqaasha and salaadinta.The same way all the other somalilanders do About marriage The sool and badhan regions have a custom called Xeedhada , Something that is unfamiliar with the koonfurians , even the Colonialist Thought of these people are they Related to these people or are they A different people u guys even confused the colonialist lolz.
The Somaliland Constitution is a fair constitution the 5 tribes of somaliland are all well known Ciise isaaq Samaroon Warsangali And Dhulbahante if you are any of these 5 tribes whether ur from Djibouti or Ethiopia or koonfuria u will be automatically a somalilander . I mean you guys where part of somaliland in 1960 had your own political party and seats in the parliament
Besides you also said we didn’t for the for Somaliland constitution or the referendum of independence, well if you don’t like to participate in the democratic system in somaliland well you shouldn’t talk u got the chance to vote if you didn’t its your own problem, I also like to add u were well represented in the burco reconciliation meetings and u were also present when somaliland was declared independent in burco both your garaads were present garaad cabdiqani and garad selebaan both signed the independence declaration.
Somaliland is fair and united
Suldaan Emperior

Kuma rabaan