do you belive in ghosts ???

[Alphanumeric]

sorry bro, that sounds insane

clarify plz what part is hard to believe, or is unreasonable

you claim the prophet and sahaba didn't have that knowledge, yet you have knowledge of allah choosing to speak through his creatures?

lol sorry dude

[SultanOrder]

Yes, so do you believe that jin have more knowledge than the Rasul scw? Maya so maha
Do, you think that it was a custom of the sahabi to do this before this moment? Maya so maha
Then where could a jin know about this? or maybe they always knew the power of ayatul kursi? I doubt it.
Was it an angel who revealed it to the Jin the power of Ayatul Kursi? I doubt this again.
Illahay can reveal his knowledge any way he wants, he can reveal it through whomever he wants, with or without that persons knowledge. So using deduction, I can only come to that conclusion, as it makes perfectly normal sense. And the truth of that statement is confirmed by the Rasul scw.

Everyone has heard stories or you might have your own, where an instance occurred that at a critical moment in your life, and maybe know one was aware of it but yourself, you just by random heard something that answered your question you were having that you could only come to the conclusion that Illahay made that person say it just for you.
Or a better example, you had a religious question that was on your mind, and you happen to go to a lecture, or where ever and a shekih or imam answers that question without you having never asked it, who made that person say it if it wasn't for Illahay?

Who knows that Sahabi could of especially needed that ayatul kursi as he was being troubled by jinni at night, so Illahay for being so patient and merciful could of have that knowledge revealed for him in his time of need.

[SultanOrder]

sorry bro, that sounds insane

clarify plz what part is hard to believe, or is unreasonable

you claim the prophet and sahaba didn't have that knowledge, yet you have knowledge of allah choosing to speak through his creatures?

lol sorry dude

But brother, answer me this, is it impossible for Illahay to speak through you? As in control what you say and make you say whatever Illahay wills?

[Alphanumeric]

bro ayatul kursi burns evil jinn. chances are they knew of its power.

And (remember) when We sent towards you (Muhammad SAW) Nafran (three to ten persons) of the jinns, (quietly) listening to the Qur'ān, when they stood in the presence thereof, they said: "Listen in silence!" And when it was finished, they returned to their people, as warners. (Al-Ahqaf 46:29)

They said: "O our people! Verily! We have heard a Book (this Qur'ān) sent down after Mûsa (Moses), confirming what came before it, it guides to the truth and to a Straight Path (i.e. Islām). (Al-Ahqaf 46:30)

the fact the prophet withheld knowledge does not prove he was not taught it


po, allah does as he wills. but the only instances i can recall of a man hearing the voice or direct speech of allah is between him and his messengers.

[SultanOrder]

My friend, I never said it is the direct speech of Allah, but that Allah used that devil as a means to reveal something. I believe it is no different a means then when Allah used a sahabi revealing in his dream the adhan so he could go to the muslims and tell them, which the rasul did not know either. So you mustn't be so surprised by the methods Allah wishes to reveal truth, as he spoke through the baby at the time of the boy and the king, where the people were being thrown in a pit of fire and the baby spoke to his mother and told her not to be afraid, was it the baby who spoke or Illahay who spoke through the baby (or made the baby speak if that is easier for you to grasp)? Even if I am not right in this particular instance, it is not at all hard for to believe this is a possibility.

The reason I said it could be a possibility that the sahab and the Rasul scw didn't know the power of ayatul kursi, used not against jin but shaydaan (those jin who mean you harm), is because look who is the sahabi in this hadith. It is Abu Hurairah a close sahabi of the rasul scw who is well known for the amount of hadith that is narrated through him, and his devotion to the rasul scw. And Allah revealed Islam slowly to the Rasul scw, and not all at once, and the power of certain ayats.

[Alphanumeric]

i see what you mean. your wording though, could have been better.

still, i feel what i said about jinn knowing the power of ayaat is reasonable. and again, the prophet withholding information does not prove he did not know it.

we also need to consider chronology.

[SultanOrder]

I may or may not be right, but the way you scoffed at me, and brought sufi into this (which I still don't get what it has anything to do with it), for that I'm slightly disheartened by you, didn't expect that. Plus I didn't think that I had to clarify "allah spoke through...", I thought it was pretty obvious that I didn't mean Allah's "voice" came out through that mouth.

And the Prophet scw never withholds unless it is better to reveal it later, or it is better for the ummah.

[Alphanumeric]

i apologize. i can see it was uncalled for. but "allah spoke through" does conjure a particular image, gotta admit.

and by your understanding, how do we accept the prophet agreeing with a lying shaytaan?

[SultanOrder]

I accept your apology, though now I know your attitude towards "sufis"

I'll be more clear next time, mr stubborn

[Hargaysa1982]

ghosts as in dead ppls spirits roamin around no they are in al Barzakh
but I believe in the un_seen the jinns n the devils and the Angels

[Alphanumeric]

I accept your apology, though now I know your attitude towards "sufis"

I'll be more clear next time, mr stubborn

really, it wasn't entirely meant as an insult. sometimes i just cant understand some statements and beliefs.
i'll try to be more open minded

[SultanOrder]

......

...wtf?

gotta love sufis

You may not always mean it as an insult, but don't patronize me for this one Alpha. Anyway I've said what I needed to say. I think I've made a pretty reasonable case.

[Alphanumeric]

dont have the energy to patronize. but ok. and still disagree with your case.

[SultanOrder]

Sore loser

You don't have to believe me, but as long as you accept it aint impossible, I've done my job, and destroyed your attempt to discredit me.

[Alphanumeric]