Sufis- Limits to Worship?

[Enlightened~Sista]

walaal, just stop here...ur digging a hole deeper and deeper to nowhere...we both know u just wrote that based on NOTHING.

Yes ..i remember clearly you mentioning how you met a variety of depraved people who commit every sin under the sun. So don't try to deny it.

I was left no choice but to get personal....just to show you...your hypocrisy..hating people for making dhikr..calling them deviants..condemning them to jahannum..yet you and your buddies arent beacons of morality and you guys arent even assured of your own salvation and entry into jannah.


Leave the judging to Allah s.w.t... I have never condemned entire people to jahannum..not Sufis not Salafis not Shias..not even Non Muslims..in the end Allah s.w.t only knows.

[Mr. Yungnfresh]

walaal, just stop here...ur digging a hole deeper and deeper to nowhere...we both know u just wrote that based on NOTHING.

Yes ..i remember clearly you mentioning how you met a variety of depraved people who commit every sin under the sun. So don't try to deny it.

I was left no choice but to get personal....just to show you...your hypocrisy..hating people for making dhikr..calling them deviants..condemning them to jahannum..yet you and your buddies arent beacons of morality and you guys arent even assured of your own salvation and entry into jannah.


Leave the judging to Allah s.w.t... I have never condemned entire people to jahannum..not Sufis not Salafis not Shias..not even Non Muslims..in the end Allah s.w.t only knows.

ur creative imagination would be amusing if it wasn't completely absurd...please quote 1 single time i've ever said that "i've met a variety of depraved people who commit every sin under the sun" or anything similar to that on this forum. Just one.

'U were left no choice but to get personal' cuz u know u don't have anything authentic and significant to reference about the issue itself...so ur resorting to making up comments i supposedly made about "my friends" and claiming i've condemned people to hell and i hate them for making dhikr when u can't find 1 single example of where i've done this....Wallahi i don't even know what to say to ur clearly wild and fabricated claims...i started this thread respectfully and u managed to bring it to a mudslinging match of "lets talk about ur personal life instead of Islamic evidences for the permissibility of certain actions" when we're discussing issues, not people....so i'll jus leave it at that and stop replying to u my "enlightened" sista (Ilaahay "enlightened" ha kaa dhigo, Amiin)

[sadeboi]

Yungnfresh, our sister unfortunately does not want to gain knowledge nor listen, all she wishes to do is argue.

Dikhri which is the uttering of "subxanallah" "allhamdulilah" and so forth is different from the suufi hadra. I don't think englighten nor any suufi could bring hadith or quran which states that people come to each others homes, chant sayings [thou they do speak poetically of the prophet], spray perfumes, splash water, and ask the blessings of a dead shiekh (as if its not Allah who grants blessings) during the prophets time or the 2 pious generations after his time. Instead of doing all of that stuff wouldn't it be better to read the quran and hadiths and teach others the religion the ways of the prophet, instead of chanting? There is no hadith or quran verse that support the hadra, thus its an innovation and not part of Islam.

[Advo]

Advo can go view his favourite Somalidirt porn

That comment actually says alot about ur character ES......I mean u got ur ass handed to u and now ur arguing just to have the last word and throwing personal insults in hopes to further ur claim, like 100 million people already stated, sufism is a bidca, celebrating the prophets birthday is innovation, just common sense waaye waxaas and I come from a "Sufi" background, so YOU LOST DEAR!

again, Ilaahey haku soo hanuuniyo, u and the rest of ur crew.

[*Amal]

you on the other hand soco and hang out with your loser friends aad nooga sheekeeysay...Murax can go raving with his madow and blonde girlfriends in the swankiest D.C nightclubs and Advo can go view his favourite Somalidirt porn. :

Leave the judging to Allah s.w.t...

[The_Emperior5]

Yungnfresh, our sister unfortunately does not want to gain knowledge nor listen, all she wishes to do is argue.

Dikhri which is the uttering of "subxanallah" "allhamdulilah" and so forth is different from the suufi hadra. I don't think englighten nor any suufi could bring hadith or quran which states that people come to each others homes, chant sayings [thou they do speak poetically of the prophet], spray perfumes, splash water, and ask the blessings of a dead shiekh (as if its not Allah who grants blessings) during the prophets time or the 2 pious generations after his time. Instead of doing all of that stuff wouldn't it be better to read the quran and hadiths and teach others the religion the ways of the prophet, instead of chanting? There is no hadith or quran verse that support the hadra, thus its an innovation and not part of Islam.

horta no one ask blessing from dead sheiks u cant even ask the blessing of the prophet today becaus he is not alive today where did you get that idea from allah says in his kuran
Wama la kum min duunilahi min walaiyihin wala nasiir , spray perfums Well When u going to salaat jimca u spray perfum right markaad ilahay haddal haysiid iyo nabbiga iyo asxaabda maxa ku diiday caddar isku buufisiid saxaba tabiciinta wa tabiciin Inu ba nabbiga wa amaanii jiireen with poetery , nabbiguna ma joogiin.

[The_Emperior5]

Advo can go view his favourite Somalidirt porn

That comment actually says alot about ur character ES......I mean u got ur ass handed to u and now ur arguing just to have the last word and throwing personal insults in hopes to further ur claim, like 100 million people already stated, sufism is a bidca, celebrating the prophets birthday is innovation, just common sense waaye waxaas and I come from a "Sufi" background, so YOU LOST DEAR!

again, Ilaahey haku soo hanuuniyo, u and the rest of ur crew.

Mawlid is celebrated all over the world exept in saudi arabia taasii maxay ku tussayssa
Sufisme = bidca kulaha subxanallah

[Advo]

you on the other hand soco and hang out with your loser friends aad nooga sheekeeysay...Murax can go raving with his madow and blonde girlfriends in the swankiest D.C nightclubs and Advo can go view his favourite Somalidirt porn. :

Leave the judging to Allah s.w.t...

That's a SUFI for u.

[Haddad]

Leave the judging to Allah s.w.t... I have never condemned entire people to jahannum..not Sufis not Salafis not Shias..not even Non Muslims..in the end Allah s.w.t only knows.

You're confusing judging with criticizing/condemning. Actually, it isn't confusion; it's a tactic to mute criticism/condemnation. With your tactic, you want us to tolerate what's munkar and people who do it, not criticize/condemn it/them. For example, as Muslims, we will never tolerate gays; we will criticize/condemn them. You don't want us to criticize/condemn alcoholics, adulterers, drug addicts, murtads, gamblers, etc. You want us to tolerate them, and leave the judging to Allah. That isn't how it works.

[American Salafi]

Those are some funny videos. Sufism, thanks to Allah, is being exposed for their misguidance. Somalis are coming to understand this sect and their beliefs and how it contradicts the sunnah of our messenger, saw.

People need to follow the path of the salaf not the path of sufism. When people start following their opinions and desires and not the Quran and the sunnah with the understanding of the companions, then you will have people break dancing in the masjid or making pilgrimage to graves, subhanallah!!

Dawah Salafiyyah is the Call to the Pure Islam.

[Padishah]

Dikhri which is the uttering of "subxanallah" "allhamdulilah" and so forth is different from the suufi hadra.

Yes, uttering SubhanAllah, and Alhamdulillah are a form of dhikr. No one here would disagree.

I don't think englighten nor any suufi could bring hadith or quran which states that people come to each others homes, chant sayings [thou they do speak poetically of the prophet], spray perfumes, splash water

Here is the crux. There is no Hadith that specifically sets how one is to go about one's daily dhikr. This is the point some stubbornly refuse to take into account. Its not a matter of seeking specifically to do something better than the prophet, because this is not possible. Dhikr has simply been left up to the worshippers discretion. If you believe it has not been left up to the worshippers discretion, please bring your proof.

and ask the blessings of a dead shiekh (as if its not Allah who grants blessings) during the prophets time or the 2 pious generations after his time.

Tawassul is an oft discussed subject. I trust you will read the PDF to gain a better understanding of what it entails, instead of the usual polemic.

Instead of doing all of that stuff wouldn't it be better to read the quran and hadiths and teach others the religion the ways of the prophet, instead of chanting?

No one disagrees that reading the Qur'an or teaching it to others is a praiseworthy thing. This, however, does not mean that we should abandon dhikr altogether. What is at work here are preferences; you prefer these things to dhikr, while Sufi's believe that plentiful and oft repeated dhikr, alone and in a group, is a thing to be sought. Unless there is a clear guidance from the Prophet (PBUH0 either way, then we are arguing over which preference is more preferable, which in itself is subjective and prone to variation.

There is no hadith or quran verse that support the hadra, thus its an innovation and not part of Islam.

There is no Hadith or Qur'anic verse that condemns Sufi Hadra. There is no Hadith available from which a scholar can practice Qiyas and rule that the Hadra is Innovation. Nor has there been a consensus between Mujtahid Imams of one generation considering the Hadra an Innovation. So, on what basis does a laymen consider Sufi dhikr, and the Hadra to be Blameworthy Innovation.

People need to follow the path of the salaf not the path of sufism.

Dawah Salafiyyah is the Call to the Pure Islam.

As Fisabilillah has eloquently said, there is a rather large difference between the Path of the Salaf, we we all inshAllah strive to be on, and the modern day group who erroneously call themselves Salafi's. Suffice to say even though you might be a part of this group, this does not guarantee your personal salvation.

[Mr. Yungnfresh]

Here is the crux. There is no Hadith that specifically sets how one is to go about one's daily dhikr. This is the point some stubbornly refuse to take into account. Its not a matter of seeking specifically to do something better than the prophet, because this is not possible. Dhikr has simply been left up to the worshippers discretion. If you believe it has not been left up to the worshippers discretion, please bring your proof

The thing is, we are forbidden from following a path other than the one Muhammad SAW brought and taught...when did he do this type of ritualistic dhikr? The onus is upon the one who claims it's acceptable in Islam to show where they have the daliil for that and where there is clear precedence of this occurring during the time of Muhammad SAW.

As i quoted from the story of Ibn Mas'ud (RA), he clearly forbade the people from practicing that when he saw them engaging in it, even though they claimed they meant nothing but good....if it's not from Rasulullah SAW, then it's null and void in terms of Islam. Anyone who says it's acceptable is contradicting a direct ruling by Ibn Mas'ud (RA), who was nicknamed "the scholar of the Sahaba (RA)"

[American Salafi]

Padish

No one said that salafis are saved from hell-fire. The path of the salaf is the saved path. We are not talking about individuals but the methodology (Minhaj) which will lead to paradise. I never said that I am saved from Hell-fire. Subhanallah!! No. I pray to Allah that I will be saved but my point is that if you want to be guided then you should follow in belief, action, and understanding the salaf of this Ummah. This is the path to success. I hope you understand.

[Padishah]

This board is not letting me post my point completely.

I get this message:

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Data too long for column 'post_text' at row 1 [1406]

An SQL error occurred while fetching this page. Please contact the Board Administrator if this problem persists.

[sadeboi]

Here is the crux. There is no Hadith that specifically sets how one is to go about one's daily dhikr. This is the point some stubbornly refuse to take into account. Its not a matter of seeking specifically to do something better than the prophet, because this is not possible. Dhikr has simply been left up to the worshippers discretion. If you believe it has not been left up to the worshippers discretion, please bring your proof.

We understand that all Muslims can agree that Islamic dikhri is the recitation of "subxanallah" "allhamdulilah" and like minded phrases that used to be utter by the prophet, his companions, and the members of the pious generations, you said that dhikri has been left up to the ones discretion basically stating that ritual practice or hadra is acceptable, Padishah your an educated guy and you should know that when one states something as being "Islamic" that was not a practice of the prophet, his companions, and the pious generations then he must bring about the dhaliil for his statements, just as Yungin pointed out. Its like asking me to do your homework, I never said anything that is not been done by the prophet, his companions, and the three pious generations can be done and be called part of Islam, you did brother.

I understand what tawassul is brother, but that is different then seeking an intermediary between a being and Allah by asking a shiekh or a prophet for blessing instead of asking allah for the blessing because of those pious people, which is a practice by members of the suufi sect.

Also, the way to heaven is not by uttering you follow the salafi dacwa walaal as it has been stated, buts its by your actions, anyone who tells you other wise or proclaims that heaven is destined for them is delusional.