Why Western Somalia is a better name than Ogadenia

[BlackVelvet]

Exec: viewtopic.php?f=250&t=296814

Let's take it there, let's not hijack this thread

[EEGA9]

Walaal haduu magaca somaligalbeed wax tarayo kuwan baa wax ku qaadi lahaa, lakin markay waxba tariwaayen bay isu dhiben cadawgay la tagaalamayen.


Addis Ababa, Ethiopia – The Ethiopian government and the separatist rebels, the Western Somali Liberation Front (WSLF), have reached a peace agreement, government spokesman disclosed here Friday.

‘Preliminary discussion with WSLF has borne fruits this week. The leaders of this group have agreed to abide by Ethiopia’s constitution and they are expected to announce from here (his office) how they are planning to operate in Ethiopia,’ Bereket Simon, Minister of Government Communication Affairs, told a news conference.

According to Bereket, the entire WSLF ” the earliest rebel group in the vast, ethnic-Somali region of eastern Ethiopia that fought nearly for four decades for independence, and weakened lately ” will be one of the legal opposition politic al parties allowed to advance its agenda freely, peacefully and publicly

They are weakened because Somalia has let them down, Somalia provides no political leverage in the fight for independence. But once that changes, the name Western Somalia will be indispensable. Ogaden Region should of course never be lost as the name of this region to maintain the historical context. The failing here is not by WSLF but by Somalia.

They are not WSLF but UWSLF, most of the old WSLF have been absorbed by ONLF.

[BlackVelvet]

Yes from our point of view but in the eyes of the International Community which ultimately has the final decision in recognizing your claim they are not keen on upsetting the post-colonial order of nation-states no matter how artificial they are plus there was no recognized Somali state with defined borders before the colonization period making it difficult to argue the case of annexation.So for any claim the colonial route must be taken where colonial documentation of treaties and maps provide insight and in this regard Somali lands were colonized by several countries, because the Ogaden was handed by the British Government the argument focuses on the illegality of handover hence the Somali people of the Ogaden must uphold there right to self-determination but before that the Ethiopian Government must be dislodged for this to be exercised and for any country to take notice.

...No but that's not off the table either, people have opinions but who knows.

Okay that makes sense. If it is Western Somalia then it is automatically an aggressive stance with regards to Ethiopia and its neighbour which might not be the best move. All I am saying is that aggression might be necessary to make this a reality. MSB had it in his hands but he got greedy. That's why I think pressure from the outside is crucial. Ethiopia mistreats its own citizens, the international community turns a blind eye to everything Meles does but Somalia legally going after its own land "Ogaden" which was illegally annexed to Ethiopia, I think there is a real possibility there. Inshallah but like Ina Aadan and you guys say it comes down to the people who are there themselves. I just think this is a good argument to use and continue to use against Ethiopia.

[HaragWafi85]

We fought the bigger evil at that particular time and that was the dictatorship government.

You didn't fight the bigger evil, you were created by the enemy of Somalia to bring down the government, at the same time you were slaughtering Ogaden refugees that had been displaced.

Don't speak of something you are clueless of. It was the so called Ogadens under WSLF that started attacking Garhajis nomads in the Haud after the 1977 war. Hence why Muj.Maxamed Cali a former high ranking fighter in the Somali army started arming the Garhajis in Haud to defend themselfs even before the creation of SNM.


May allah bless his soul.

[BlackVelvet]

We fought the bigger evil at that particular time and that was the dictatorship government.

You didn't fight the bigger evil, you were created by the enemy of Somalia to bring down the government, at the same time you were slaughtering Ogaden refugees that had been displaced.

Don't speak of something you are clueless of. It was the so called Ogadens under WSLF that started attacking Garhajis nomads after the 1977 war, hence why Muj.Maxamed Cali a former high ranking fighter in the Somali army started arming the Garhajis in Haud to defend themselfs even before the creation of SNM.

May I suggest making another thread where you hash it out with this guy? He is on a mission to turn this thread into a war ground please don't do it here.

[HaragWafi85]

Ok.

[ina aadan]

Laba libaax markay is hayaan bisaduna ileen way ka faidaysataa.

[BlackVelvet]

Laba libaax markay is hayaan bisaduna ileen way ka faidaysataa.

Ma kufahmin.

[ina aadan]

Laba libaax markay is hayaan bisaduna ileen way ka faidaysataa.

Ma kufahmin.

mar kalaan ku fahansiin, lakin xumaato aan kuula jedo ma ahan.

[BlackVelvet]

Haye

[Colonel]

Blackvelvet's whole argument is based on the following:

1) Ogaden has a better chance of liberation if they use Western Somalia as a name in order to gain more support
2) Ogaden was part of Somalia therefore must be returned to it

For point 1 let me just say that there is no Somalia today, no government, no armed forces therefore your argument is futile. The so called TFG is dictated by men in Kampala and Darusalam, it relies on galoo madow troops for survival so how can it be of any help to the cause?

As for point 2 was Ogaden ever part of a united Somalia? I doubt it, it certainly wasn't during Somalia's glory days of post colonialism and before that every tribe were in control of their own territory.

Is the aim independence? Well if Somalia stays in this mess then yes it is, I would rather give my loyalty to a Muslim Ethiopian leader than the current TFG.

[Teeri]

Who exactly wrote this "history" who named it Ogadenia?

I am not gonna be a ceeb and say that name is a bad name but we prefer ogadenya. we can bring the discussion to the table as long as people other than ogaagaden pick up guns and start fighting to free the land. Until then lets hold this discourse in abeyance.

I respect it if the Ogadens in Ogadenia are the only ones fighting for independence, I can see why you would be defensive about it. But if the aim of the fighting is independence and secession from Ethiopia then it becomes about priorities.

you seemed to lack historical perspective on the issue. its normal for humans to forget yesterday yet they want to move on to the future with out knowing the past.

the region was named Ogadeniya in 1884, during the Berlin conference. the name came from the British and other European powers. no other somali has dealt with the oromos and habashis then us Absames, even they used to call the region the Ogaden lands.

also keep in mind the region is made of 9 provinces, 8 are Ogaden majority, one is Bartire. before us, this land was not somali, it was us who expanded it with the blood of young Ogaden men for centuries and defended.

you see, the problem you have is that you see the small tribes that we have invited as guests like small xeer dirs and few sheekhals. we shed blood for it, fought the British, we will name it what ever we want to call it. after all this land was not owned by somalis before us

you see, we shoot the guns on both sides, whether its ONLF fighting for the freedom, or Abdi Illey giving Ogaden 121, 30 others to Absame out of the 180 seats in Ogaden, we are on both ends of the spectrum. we shoot the gun and negotiate the peace.

discussing the name is just a waste of time. stick to somali politics huuno.

in the mean time. answer me a question: Who expanded this land? who ruled this land? who ruled from shiiniley to Libaan? if your answer is not Absame kings like Wiil Waal, Ugas Nuur Cubudiye, Raage Ugaas, Faarah Will Waal. I will give a 1000$ to any charity of you choice.

know your history, we know ours.

[BlackVelvet]

1) Ogaden has a better chance of liberation if they use Western Somalia as a name in order to gain more support

Not in order to gain more support, to tie itself back to Somalia to build stronger legitimacy in the fight for liberation but then if you guys are not even sure you want to join Somalia then that point is moot.

As for point 2 was Ogaden ever part of a united Somalia? I doubt it, it certainly wasn't during Somalia's glory days of post colonialism and before that every tribe were in control of their own territory.

There really was never a Somalia before colonialism and there was no chance for the Ogaden to become a part of Somalia post colonisation.

[BlackVelvet]

in the mean time. answer me a question: Who expanded this land? who ruled this land? who ruled from shiiniley to Libaan? if your answer is not Absame kings like Wiil Waal, Ugas Nuur Cubudiye, Raage Ugaas, Faarah Will Waal. I will give a 1000$ to any charity of you choice.

I am not here to be arrogant or to throw insults, relax. I have learnt today that the first ever freedom fighters in the Ogaden region were actually called United Western Somali Liberation Front. Those guys and I follow the same logic.

[Teeri]

in the mean time. answer me a question: Who expanded this land? who ruled this land? who ruled from shiiniley to Libaan? if your answer is not Absame kings like Wiil Waal, Ugas Nuur Cubudiye, Raage Ugaas, Faarah Will Waal. I will give a 1000$ to any charity of you choice.

I am not here to be arrogant or to throw insults, relax. I have learnt today that the first ever freedom fighters in the Ogaden region were actually called United Western Somali Liberation Front. Those guys and I follow the same logic.

no sweet heart, the first freedom fighters in the Ogaden were called Ogadens, men like Maqtaal Dhahir, he predated the WSLF by 30 years. he was organising resistence by the 1930s, you speak of wslf that was around Siyad barres times. Haile Salasiy used to use slogans like '' Ogaden waa ethiopian, Ethiopian waa Ogaden'' from the 1930s onwards.

and no, our aim is to have a free Ogadeniya, we dont want somalia, maybe an economic union first when its stable.

besides, there was no such thing as somalia and till the British came along and divided Ogaden lands into Ogaden, NFD and Jubbaland and created somalia, somalia was not meant to work from the beginning as its an artificial state created because they thought they will get along because of their language.

so this counters your other argument that Ogadeniya was somalia and should ''go back'' to somalia. somalia never existed when we were ruling the plains of afdhere and jigjiga and qooraxay, do you think we have been shedding blood for 4 generations to let the country be ruled from Mogadishu? use common sense,