BREAKING: ISIS beheads 2nd American Journalist

[Cherine]

James,
Your discussion reminded me of this newstory which made headlines recently...
US aid agency used HIV workshop as cover for anti-Cuba operation

[Jabuutawi]

The subject is not about Islam but ISIS and its distortion of Islam.

To Grant: You and others like you come out of the woodwork when someone uses Islam as a pretext for personal agenda. As usual, haters of Islam take things out of context and prefer to exploit selective quotes of Hadiths and Quran.

Could you, since you are well-versed on selective quotes of the Quran, explain the whole notion of Spanish and Portuguese conquistadores fighting in the name of your book, religion and pope? Their savagery in the Americas in the name of Christianity -- sanctioned at the highest levels by popes throughout history -- is a well known fact.

How about all those "goody two-shoes" Christians importing slaves in the tens of millions from Africa to the new world? The Middle Passage in the Atlantic Ocean is littered with grave yards of millions of Africans tossed alive off board from ships during perilous journey to North/South America because Christians needed maids to work in their homes and farms. Add in the mix your dastardly acts during the crusades to Jerusalem. I read somewhere that Crusaders on their horsebacks were stepping on bodies of Muslims stacked so high as far as the eye can see, that horses underbellies were smeared with human/Muslim blood.

Your exploitation of Africa and its treatment of the indigenous peoples in the last century is well documented and I can offer you first-hand quotes by my elders.

Explain all these to us and why you think Christianity is a religion of peace. Did you (West) find religion in the last quarter of the last century when you lost all possessions in Africa and other places?

[Nomand]

This is barbaric act and gives Islam a bad name. nuke the whole area that they control, case closed.

so one guy gets beheaded and the answer is nuking and killing 10 million people.

[sconosciuto]

http://markhumphrys.com/islam.killings.html
http://archive.frontpagemag.com/readArt ... RTID=13030

On first link:
Writings on Politics and Religion

by Mark Humphrys

Pro-free private life: Atheist. Pro-science. Pro-reason. Pro-free speech. Pro-liberal democracy.
Pro-free economic life: Pro-capitalist. Pro-West.
Pro-interventionist: Anti-isolationist. End tyranny everywhere. End communism. End Islamic law.

From the second link:
http://archive.frontpagemag.com/AboutHorowitz/

On April 2008, the 'David Horowitz Freedom Center' ran an advertisement in the Daily Nexus, the University of California Santa Barbara school newspaper, alleging the Muslim Students' Association (MSA) of having links to the Muslim Brotherhood, Al Qaeda and Hamas."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Horo ... anizations

Sounds like anti-Islam, Neocon/Zionist links, links that mirror your exact views and beliefs. Nothing new.

[James Dahl]

These "links" are always something like one guys' uncle's cousin is a member.

[Mondey]

I need to see the full video, anyone?

[Jabuutawi]

As many as 1,362 people reverted to embrace Islam in the first half of 2014 in Dubai, according to the Dar Al Ber Society (DABS).

According to a top official, the Islamic Information Centre (IIC), which comes under DABS, assisted and enlightened the fresh Muslims, who are hailing from 60 different nationalities – mainly Asia, Europe and Africa.

Khalfan Khalifa Al Mazrouei, Chairman of DABS, on Tuesday said as many as 1,362 residents, men and women, have embraced Islam at the hands of the IIC scholars and preachers during January 1 to June 30, 2014.

“The converts are the fruit of a variety of intensive programmes, activities, lectures, and forums organised for new and non-Muslims in collaboration with the Islamic Affairs and Charitable Activities Department in Dubai,” he added.

The Islamic Information Centre issues conversion certificates accredited by both the Department of Islamic Affairs and Charitable Activities in Dubai and the Dubai Courts, he noted.

Al Mazrouei said up to 1,175 men and women visited the Centre, which has recently moved to the Dar Al Ber Society headquarters on the Sheikh Zayed Road in the first six months of the year.

“The Centre, reachable at Phone (04-3555223), Fax: (04-3555226), and by mail at: (P.O. Box 25020 – Dubai), has run 1,411 lectures and distributed 126,911 brochures, pamphlets, and booklets to new and non-Muslims during the same period,” he added.




He stated that the Centre, being active online, attracted 14,884 visitors to its official portal: (http://www.islamicic.com), via Email: (info@islamicic.com), and on Twitter: (@islamicic), Facebook: (Islamic Information Centre), and YouTube: (islamicicdxb).”

Al Mazrouei said the II Centre spares no effort to spread the authentic and merciful teachings of Islam in view of the strategic goals of the Dubai-Government Dar Al Ber Society.

“We are closely observing Verse 125/16 of the Holy Quran which reads: ‘Call unto the way of your Lord with wisdom and goodly exhortation, and reason with them (disbelievers) in ways that are best and most gracious’.”

However, this is not the end of the story, he pinpointed. “We also run several simplified follow-up programmes and diverse courses on the memorisation, recitation and explanation of the Holy Quran, Arabic language, and prophetic sayings and instructions to develop awareness of new Muslims about the reasonable, inclusive, and tolerant concepts, principles, and teachings of Islam.”

Rashid Aljunaibi, Director of the II Centre, said people are attracted to the merciful and rational teachings of Islam.

“Muslims are instructed to be honest, fair and kind to all people, disregard their religion, race, language and colour,” he added.

Source: Emirates 24/7

Mashallah, this is the true essence of Islam.

[Grant]

Fah and Jabutawi,

There is Islam the religion, and then there is the history that the Muslims made. Discussing history is not anti-Islamic in the sense that you define the real Islam here.

There were five great Islamic empires:

http://alikhan3.hubpages.com/hub/Four-G ... ic-Empires

The Mughul dynasty in India was founded by the Timurid Babur, who conquered India from a base in Kabul. The record of his conquest is peppered with accounts like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babur%27s_ ... Expedition

"So when the Afghans having descended upon the Mughals came and occupied that detached hill Babur instantly dispatched a party of my men to take possession of the neck of ground between the mountain and the hill ordered the rest of the army to attack the hill on both sides. The army moving regularly to kill the afghans who could not stand their ground and in an instant a hundred or a hundred and fifty of them were slaughtered. Many surrendered with grass in their teeth, a custom of surrendering whereby they mean “I am Your Ox”. Babur in his usual Timurid and Mongol custom had many beheaded and a tower of heads erected."

If you wish to remain ignorant of Islamic history for your own reasons, that is up to you. But be aware that others are not so ignorant. Issuing fatwas for perceived insults to religion seems like a perverse joke to the West. This opinion piece, which relates mostly to ISIS, was in the NYT this morning:

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/20 ... 94457&_r=0

"It is here that Yeats’ diagnosis falls short of the present predicament: The passionate intensity of a mob bears witness to a lack of true conviction. Deep in themselves, terrorist fundamentalists also lack true conviction — their violent outbursts are a proof of it. How fragile the belief of a Muslim must be if he feels threatened by a stupid caricature in a low-circulation Danish newspaper. The fundamentalist Islamic terror is not grounded in the terrorists’ conviction of their superiority and in their desire to safeguard their cultural-religious identity from the onslaught of global consumerist civilization.

The problem with terrorist fundamentalists is not that we consider them inferior to us, but, rather, that they themselves secretly consider themselves inferior. This is why our condescending, politically correct assurances that we feel no superiority toward them only makes them more furious and feeds their resentment. The problem is not cultural difference (their effort to preserve their identity), but the opposite fact that they already like us, that, secretly, they have already internalized our standards and measure themselves by them. Paradoxically, what the fundamentalists of ISIS and those like them really lack is precisely a dose of that true conviction of one’s own superiority."

------------------------------------------------------

The feeling in the West is that, if you won't let us talk about it, there must be something shameful there you want to hide. It's not like the historical record isn't there or can be altered at will. If the Wahhabis succeed in moving the Prophet to an anonymous grave, there will still be pictures of the Green Dome, and the memory that a prophet was once buried in the house of Aisha, where he died. That fact is not subject to change, regardless of who is King in Arabia, or who wants it not to be known.

In my opinion, it is a mistake to cut off discussion, at least of historical events. End of rant.

[FAH1223]

Fah and Jabutawi,

There is Islam the religion, and then there is the history that the Muslims made. Discussing history is not anti-Islamic in the sense that you define the real Islam here.

There were five great Islamic empires:

http://alikhan3.hubpages.com/hub/Four-G ... ic-Empires

The Mughul dynasty in India was founded by the Timurid Babur, who conquered India from a base in Kabul. The record of his conquest is peppered with accounts like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babur%27s_ ... Expedition

"So when the Afghans having descended upon the Mughals came and occupied that detached hill Babur instantly dispatched a party of my men to take possession of the neck of ground between the mountain and the hill ordered the rest of the army to attack the hill on both sides. The army moving regularly to kill the afghans who could not stand their ground and in an instant a hundred or a hundred and fifty of them were slaughtered. Many surrendered with grass in their teeth, a custom of surrendering whereby they mean “I am Your Ox”. Babur in his usual Timurid and Mongol custom had many beheaded and a tower of heads erected."

If you wish to remain ignorant of Islamic history for your own reasons, that is up to you. But be aware that others are not so ignorant. Issuing fatwas for perceived insults to religion seems like a perverse joke to the West. This opinion piece, which relates mostly to ISIS, was in the NYT this morning:

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/20 ... 94457&_r=0

"It is here that Yeats’ diagnosis falls short of the present predicament: The passionate intensity of a mob bears witness to a lack of true conviction. Deep in themselves, terrorist fundamentalists also lack true conviction — their violent outbursts are a proof of it. How fragile the belief of a Muslim must be if he feels threatened by a stupid caricature in a low-circulation Danish newspaper. The fundamentalist Islamic terror is not grounded in the terrorists’ conviction of their superiority and in their desire to safeguard their cultural-religious identity from the onslaught of global consumerist civilization.

The problem with terrorist fundamentalists is not that we consider them inferior to us, but, rather, that they themselves secretly consider themselves inferior. This is why our condescending, politically correct assurances that we feel no superiority toward them only makes them more furious and feeds their resentment. The problem is not cultural difference (their effort to preserve their identity), but the opposite fact that they already like us, that, secretly, they have already internalized our standards and measure themselves by them. Paradoxically, what the fundamentalists of ISIS and those like them really lack is precisely a dose of that true conviction of one’s own superiority."

------------------------------------------------------

The feeling in the West is that, if you won't let us talk about it, there must be something shameful there you want to hide. It's not like the historical record isn't there or can be altered at will. If the Wahhabis succeed in moving the Prophet to an anonymous grave, there will still be pictures of the Green Dome, and the memory that a prophet was once buried in the house of Aisha, where he died. That fact is not subject to change, regardless of who is King in Arabia, or who wants it not to be known.

In my opinion, it is a mistake to cut off discussion, at least of historical events. End of rant.

This is not being ignorant of history. We know about the empires, we know the history of conquest in the Middle East to Asia.

The fact that you are rehearsing violence from the past to connect it to a band of mercenaries in the middle of the Arab world right now shows you have an agenda and I can see right through you.

You and other white people have this intense obsession about Muslims and Islam and try to use occurrences in history to deflect the stuff you and your beesha from Europe have done in more recent history such as the World Wars to make yourselves feel better about yourselves

And for centuries upon centuries you have tried to say there is something inherently wrong with the Qu'ran and that it encourages violence.

Well, fukk that. For every piece of violence you want to cite, I can name things a million times worse from what YOUR people and ilk have done. Your fellow gaals!

[Cherine]

LOL@Fah

[Talo alle udaa]

FAH trying to gain snet legitimacy by going ikhwan on an old retired mormon

[James Dahl]

James,
Your discussion reminded me of this newstory which made headlines recently...
US aid agency used HIV workshop as cover for anti-Cuba operation

The USA is obsessed with Cuba <_<

[SecretAgent]

Steven was an israeli citizen maybe thats why they killed him

[Grant]

Fah,

No one is claiming that Muslims have had a monopoly on violence. The issue is that they claim not to be violent, when history shows they have produced as many "atrocities" as anybody. I don't have the time to cover all of the issues, but here is one that often comes up. You condemn the West for the Crusades, but you want to forget about the jihads. This is from a source you don't like, but I believe you will find the data is accurate:

http://answering-islam.org/Authors/Arla ... meline.htm

The Timeline

AD... "630 Two years before Muhammad’s death of a fever, he launches the Tabuk Crusades, in which he led 30,000 jihadists against the Byzantine Christians. He had heard a report that a huge army had amassed to attack Arabia, but the report turned out to be a false rumor. The Byzantine army never materialized. He turned around and went home, but not before extracting "agreements" from northern tribes. They could enjoy the "privilege" of living under Islamic "protection" (read: not be attacked by Islam), if they paid a tax.

This tax sets the stage for Muhammad’s and the later Caliphs’ policies. If the attacked city or region did not want to convert to Islam, then they paid a jizya tax. If they converted, then they paid a zakat tax. Either way, money flowed back to the Islamic treasury in Arabia or to the local Muslim governor.

632-634 Under the Caliphate of Abu Bakr the Muslim Crusaders reconquer and sometimes conquer for the first time the polytheists of Arabia. These Arab polytheists had to convert to Islam or die. They did not have the choice of remaining in their faith and paying a tax. Islam does not allow for religious freedom.

633 The Muslim Crusaders, led by Khalid al-Walid, a superior but bloodthirsty military commander, whom Muhammad nicknamed the Sword of Allah for his ferocity in battle (Tabari, 8:158 / 1616-17), conquer the city of Ullays along the Euphrates River (in today’s Iraq). Khalid captures and beheads so many that a nearby canal, into which the blood flowed, was called Blood Canal (Tabari 11:24 / 2034-35).

634 At the Battle of Yarmuk in Syria the Muslim Crusaders defeat the Byzantines. Today Osama bin Laden draws inspiration from the defeat, and especially from an anecdote about Khalid al-Walid. In Khalid’s day an unnamed Muslim remarks: "The Romans are so numerous and the Muslims so few." To this Khalid retorts: "How few are the Romans, and how many the Muslims! Armies become numerous only with victory and few only with defeat, not by the number of men. By God, I would love it . . . if the enemy were twice as many" (Tabari, 11:94 / 2095). Osama bin Laden quotes Khalid and says that his fighters love death more than we in the West love life. This philosophy of death probably comes from a verse like Sura 2:96. Muhammad assesses the Jews: "[Prophet], you are sure to find them [the Jews] clinging to life more eagerly than any other people, even polytheists" (MAS Abdel Haleem, The Qur’an, Oxford UP, 2004; first insertion in brackets is Haleem’s; the second mine).

634-644 The Caliphate of Umar ibn al-Khattab, who is regarded as particularly brutal.

635 Muslim Crusaders besiege and conquer of Damascus.

636 Muslim Crusaders defeat Byzantines decisively at Battle of Yarmuk.

637 Muslim Crusaders conquer Iraq at the Battle of al-Qadisiyyah (some date it in 635 or 636).

638 Muslim Crusaders conquer and annex Jerusalem, taking it from the Byzantines.

638-650 Muslim Crusaders conquer Iran, except along Caspian Sea.

639-642 Muslim Crusaders conquer Egypt.

641 Muslim Crusaders control Syria and Palestine.

643-707 Muslim Crusaders conquer North Africa.

644 Caliph Umar is assassinated by a Persian prisoner of war; Uthman ibn Affan is elected third Caliph, who is regarded by many Muslims as gentler than Umar.

644-650 Muslim Crusaders conquer Cyprus, Tripoli in North Africa, and establish Islamic rule in Iran, Afghanistan, and Sind.

656 Caliph Uthman is assassinated by disgruntled Muslim soldiers; Ali ibn Abi Talib, son-in-law and cousin to Muhammad, who married the prophet’s daughter Fatima through his first wife Khadija, is set up as Caliph.

656 Battle of the Camel, in which Aisha, Muhammad’s wife, leads a rebellion against Ali for not avenging Uthman’s assassination. Ali’s partisans win.

657 Battle of Siffin between Ali and Muslim governor of Jerusalem, arbitration goes against Ali

661 Murder of Ali by an extremist; Ali’s supporters acclaim his son Hasan as next Caliph, but he comes to an agreement with Muawiyyah I and retires to Medina.

661-680 the Caliphate of Muawiyyah I. He founds Umayyid dynasty and moves capital from Medina to Damascus

673-678 Arabs besiege Constantinople, capital of Byzantine Empire

680 Massacre of Hussein (Muhammad’s grandson), his family, and his supporters in Karbala, Iraq.

691 Dome of the Rock is completed in Jerusalem, only six decades after Muhammad’s death.

705 Abd al-Malik restores Umayyad rule.

710-713 Muslim Crusaders conquer the lower Indus Valley.

711-713 Muslim Crusaders conquer Spain and impose the kingdom of Andalus. This article recounts how Muslims today still grieve over their expulsion 700 years later. They seem to believe that the land belonged to them in the first place.

719 Cordova, Spain, becomes seat of Arab governorship.

732 The Muslim Crusaders are stopped at the Battle of Poitiers; that is, Franks (France) halt Arab advance.

749 The Abbasids conquer Kufah and overthrow Umayyids.

756 Foundation of Umayyid emirate in Cordova, Spain, setting up an independent kingdom from Abbasids.

762 Foundation of Baghdad

785 Foundation of the Great Mosque of Cordova

789 Rise of Idrisid emirs (Muslim Crusaders) in Morocco; foundation of Fez; Christoforos, a Muslim who converted to Christianity, is executed.

800 Autonomous Aghlabid dynasty (Muslim Crusaders) in Tunisia.

807 Caliph Harun al-Rashid orders the destruction of non-Muslim prayer houses and of the Church of Mary Magdalene in Jerusalem.

809 Aghlabids (Muslim Crusaders) conquer Sardinia, Italy.

813 Christians in Palestine are attacked; many flee the country.

831 Muslim Crusaders capture of Palermo, Italy; raids in Southern Italy.

850 Caliph al-Matawakkil orders the destruction of non-Muslim houses of prayer.

855 Revolt of the Christians of Hims (Syria)

837-901 Aghlabids (Muslim Crusaders) conquer Sicily, raid Corsica, Italy, France.

869-883 Revolt of black slaves in Iraq

909 Rise of the Fatimid Caliphate in Tunisia; these Muslim Crusaders occupy Sicily, Sardinia.

928-969 Byzantine military revival, they retake old territories, such as Cyprus (964) and Tarsus (969).

937 The Ikhshid, a particularly harsh Muslim ruler, writes to Emperor Romanus, boasting of his control over the holy places.

937 The Church of the Resurrection (known as Church of Holy Sepulcher in Latin West) is burned down by Muslims; more churches in Jerusalem are attacked .

960 Conversion of Qarakhanid Turks to Islam

966 Anti-Christian riots in Jerusalem

969 Fatimids (Muslim Crusaders) conquer Egypt and found Cairo.

c. 970 Seljuks enter conquered Islamic territories from the East.

973 Israel and southern Syria are again conquered by the Fatimids.

1003 First persecutions by al-Hakim; the Church of St. Mark in Fustat, Egypt, is destroyed.

1009 Destruction of the Church of the Resurrection by al-Hakim (see 937)

1012 Beginning of al-Hakim’s oppressive decrees against Jews and Christians

1015 Earthquake in Palestine; the dome of the Dome of the Rock collapses.

1031 Collapse of Umayyid Caliphate and establishment of 15 minor independent dynasties throughout Muslim Andalus

1048 Reconstruction of the Church of the Resurrection completed

1050 Creation of Almoravid (Muslim Crusaders) movement in Mauretania; Almoravids (also known as Murabitun) are coalition of western Saharan Berbers; followers of Islam, focusing on the Quran, the hadith, and Maliki law.

1055 Seljuk Prince Tughrul enters Baghdad, consolidation of the Seljuk Sultanate.

1055 Confiscation of property of Church of the Resurrection

1071 Battle of Manzikert, Seljuk Turks (Muslim Crusaders) defeat Byzantines and occupy much of Anatolia.

1071 Turks (Muslim Crusaders) invade Palestine.

1073 Conquest of Jerusalem by Turks (Muslim Crusaders)

1075 Seljuks (Muslim Crusaders) capture Nicea (Iznik) and make it their capital in Anatolia.

1076 Almoravids (Muslim Crusaders) (see 1050) conquer western Ghana.

1085 Toledo is taken back by Christian armies.

1086 Almoravids (Muslim Crusaders) (see 1050) send help to Andalus, Battle of Zallaca.

1090-1091 Almoravids (Muslim Crusaders) occupy all of Andalus except Saragossa and Balearic Islands.

1094 Byzantine Emperor Alexius Comnenus I asks western Christendom for help against Seljuk invasions of his territory; Seljuks are Muslim Turkish family of eastern origins; see 970.

1095 Pope Urban II preaches first Crusade; they capture Jerusalem in 1099

So it is only after all of the Islamic aggressive invasions that western Christendom launches its first Crusades.

It could be argued that sometimes the Byzantine and western European leaders did not behave exemplarily, so a timeline on that subject could be developed. And sometimes the Muslims behaved exemplarily. Both are true. However, the goal of this timeline is to balance out the picture more clearly. Many people regard Islam as an innocent victim, and the Byzantines and Europeans as bullies. This hardly reflects historical reality as the multitude of aggressive Muslim military campaigns listed above show.

Moreover, we should take a step back and look at the big picture. If Islam had stayed in Arabia and had not waged wars of conquest, then no troubles would have erupted. But the truth is this: Islam moved aggressively during the Caliphates of Abu Bakr and Umar in the seventh century, with other Caliphs continuing well beyond that; only then did the western Europeans react substantively (see 1094).

Finally, it must be noted that Islamic expansion continues until well into the seventeenth century. For example, the Muslims Crusaders conquer Constantinople in 1453 and unsuccessfully besiege Vienna for the second time in 1683 (earlier in 1529). By the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, the Islamic Crusades receded, due to western resistance. "
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I suppose the West wasn't supposed to resist?

The balance of the article is a little more complex, but worth reading.

I will be pleased to go tit for tat with you on any historical subject of your choosing, as there are nearly always at least two sides to these things. And I always end up learning something. In this case, it was that Ibrahim al Baghdadi believes he is following a long tradition. Jabutawi says ISIS is a distortion of Islam. I would like to hear your opinion, Sir.....

[FAH1223]

The fact that you use Answering Islam as a source and other anti-Islamic websites with no objectivity at all shows where your true intentions are Grant.