Saving Somalia; a tentative manifesto

[Rambie]

Mods can we make this topic a sticky? I have a few ideas on the issue but currently don't have time.

What, why promote this pro-Somaliland propaganda??

The guy is basically demanding Isaaqs to be president every other cycle. The fuck.

But but .. you believe in Somalia!

[Rambie]

I can't believe people are taking this isaaq agenda serious any handicap that things this is a good idea needs to seriously reevaluate his decision making skills
We have a functioning fair system in the 4.5 if you don't like it fuck off

Gosh .... you really hate Isaaq don't you?

[CaliQase]

GG, Actually someone proposed that it should be sticked, and it was Hyper who made it.

Thank you for the clarification.

My pleasure.

[gurey25]

LAmagoodle.

1) Somalis are highly politicized and clannish.
the so called federal states are very useful in my opinion.
This is because they can distract the attention on the masses of people and turn politics into local affairs, instead of the do or die fight for the kursi.
The Federal states need to have their power clipped so as that behave like federal states instead of the independent states that they are today.

2) A revolving presidency elected by the districts is not too bad, but you can expand on this to a 7 member or more executive council in the place of the preseidency like switzerland.
Imagine if the highest office was a multi qabiil group of 7 that revolve their chairmanship of the council.
Should make allot of people happy.

3) A multicarmel approach to the legislature would benefit somalis, i propose 3 houses.

Guurti or house of elders: Limited powers but usefull in representing all the clans and subclans.
impowering traditional leaders has benefitted somaliland and is responsible for resolving Somalilands 2 civil wars.

House of representatives/deputies : MP's elected from constituencies and part of political parties, responsible for drafting laws

Senate: Selected not elected by the governers of states and responsible for monitoring and policing the goverment,
having no powers to create laws but limmited powers to veto .

4) instead of value added tax, i propose the introduction of Land value tax... This will put a break to the property bubble and bring land prices down to reasonable levels while generating allot income for the governments. Thus reducing the level of income tax needed and the need for a VAT as well. This should be collected on a district level like it is in the countries where it was successfull implemented like Hongkong, Singapore, Tawian and Japan, and to a lesser extent Australia.

[gurey25]

5) local taxes collected on a local level will allow the funding for decentralized governance and policing.
I believe policing should be local, a sherif elected or selected for every village, small town, or district.
small sized and local.
A trained and equipped police station can then be created for each region that has forensics and trained investigators to be used on a case by case basis.

This will minimize corruption, because you will not be afraid to steal from someone who lives in a some dusty village while you live in the capital,
but you cannot steal from your local community because they will see exactly how much revenue is collected and how much you spend,
and they will vicit you with an AK to your face.

[BeyondQabil]

Lamagoodle

Sxb you're exaggerating the somali problems. Somalia is not that far behind other developing countries, specially in Africa. I can confidentially say Somalia will be in top 5 countries in Africa if it gets 10 years of absolute peace and political stability. The biggest problems we have now is corrupt and unpatriotic leadership and unequipped military force. if you solve these two problems, Somalia will be success story. Also i disagree with your 2 federal state solution. South-central Somalia doesn't need SL in anyway. Pre-1991 centralism and one man one vote is the way forward.

same problems with those other African countries. If those African countries had Clean, Patriotic leaders, you think they'd be where they are now?

[Lamagoodle]

Some excellent points! and a few predictable lousy ones from some of you.

Unfortunately, because of a hectic schedule, I am not able to reply to all of you. Continue debating.

It is a good sign when you are criticised and called a qabiliste by every tribalist on SOmalinet

The Gurdian and Gedo Girl: I did not make this thread sticky. BTW GedoGurl, I rarely make my threads sticky even though ppl request that. The Guardian; regardless of whether the OP is around or not, you could still debate. I think you should be careful in putting forth accusations which do not hold water. I think throughout my presence on these boards, I have only made two of my threads sticky ; The somali language dictionary one and another one on Ciid. Should I remove the Somali dictionary one?


Cali Qase is upto date

Siciid Ayaanleh. Again, the Somali people irrespective of where they live (including the diaspora) are struggling. Yes, there are some differences but still the problems facing them are huge. Do not buy the nonsense that is diffused through the feel good media.

Xildiid, this thread had nothing to do the Somaliland-Somali issue. It is more about the ppl (somali people). Somaliland is populated by Somalis and as I replied to another poster earlier, Somaliland is undergoing the same dynamism that SOmalia went through. The legality issue needs another debate.

Kaafiye, I have never engaged in corruption in my lifetime. I am not that old either. I am for a secular state but that was not the gist of this thread. Why do you need to evoke religion into everything?

Dr. Yalaxoow; good points

GIJaamac; indeed, there are many african countries that have poor economies; but Somalia is the only African country south of the Sahara that had the prerequisites for development,which it wasted. They do, however, have some sort of peace (the majority of them) and there is some form governance. I think we should benchmark our ppl/nation with the best.

Liquid and Base, The Good Shephered and Cadaanboy, I (and othe members) would love to read your opinion of saving Somalia(s).

PrinceDaadi[/b], the suggestions are both long/short terms. I am eagerly waiting for your suggestions.

Gureey, excellent points; according to my proposal, VAT (will go to the central govt budget) and property tax and land value tax will go to the municipalities. True that VAT compliance will be difficult and it is easy to enforce property tax.

Elite SOmali Solutions?

Machiavelli2 excellent points.

Haywire Not a bad idea to have 8 regions instead of the municipalities; that is a technicality.

Idman and Bandit, pls avoid hijacking threads on these boards by changing the course of the discussions. Tribalism should be in the appropiate section. Thank you.

sii wada

[Itrah]

But but .. you believe in Somalia!

Without any special privileges to Somaliland. They have to earn the presidency just like any other region of Somalia.

[Rambie]

But but .. you believe in Somalia!

Without any special privileges to Isaaq. They have to earn the presidency just like any other clan in Somalia.

You really like 4.5 don't you.

[LiquidHYDROGEN]

But but .. you believe in Somalia!

Without any special privileges to Somaliland. They have to earn the presidency just like any other region of Somalia.

Like you guys "earned" it by destroying the Somali Republic and feeding off it's carcass. I believe if there are any clans that have more right to govern Somalia than any other it is the Northern ones.

[Rambie]

^ His inner MJ is awkening after a year on Snet,
We'll have to watchout from Itarh coming soon into fadhi ku dirir arena.

[Itrah]

Like you guys "earned" it by destroying the Somali Republic and feeding off it's carcass. I believe if there are any clans that have more right to govern Somalia than any other it is the Northern ones.

By earn I mean get elected through the popular vote. Not this undemocratic bullshit of warlords/elders electing the president.

Also, I would favor a clause in the constitution banning Islamist and Communist parties from being allowed in the government. Those two cancerous ideologies should be banned.

PS. Al Shabaab was under Isaaq leadership for a long time. If anything, Isaaq individuals played a huge role in the destruction of Somalia.

[LiquidHYDROGEN]

LAmagoodle.

1) Somalis are highly politicized and clannish.
the so called federal states are very useful in my opinion.
This is because they can distract the attention on the masses of people and turn politics into local affairs, instead of the do or die fight for the kursi.
The Federal states need to have their power clipped so as that behave like federal states instead of the independent states that they are today.

2) A revolving presidency elected by the districts is not too bad, but you can expand on this to a 7 member or more executive council in the place of the preseidency like switzerland.
Imagine if the highest office was a multi qabiil group of 7 that revolve their chairmanship of the council.
Should make allot of people happy.

3) A multicarmel approach to the legislature would benefit somalis, i propose 3 houses.

Guurti or house of elders: Limited powers but usefull in representing all the clans and subclans.
impowering traditional leaders has benefitted somaliland and is responsible for resolving Somalilands 2 civil wars.

House of representatives/deputies : MP's elected from constituencies and part of political parties, responsible for drafting laws

Senate: Selected not elected by the governers of states and responsible for monitoring and policing the goverment,
having no powers to create laws but limmited powers to veto .

4) instead of value added tax, i propose the introduction of Land value tax... This will put a break to the property bubble and bring land prices down to reasonable levels while generating allot income for the governments. Thus reducing the level of income tax needed and the need for a VAT as well. This should be collected on a district level like it is in the countries where it was successfull implemented like Hongkong, Singapore, Tawian and Japan, and to a lesser extent Australia.

I agree with everything except for the 1st and 3rd bullet-points.

1) Somalis should have the Guurti as the senate. That is what the Senate originally meant and functioned as in Roman times (the latin word Senatus came from Senes which meant elderly men) and we should extend their executive powers to cover foreign and domestic policy. The Guurti will be made up of elders from the major and minor clans and will be self-elected. To be eligible for a seat in this house, a candidate must fulfil a series of rigorous academic and experiential requirements and qualifications. e.g. PHD, government/admin/military experience at a senior level, financial requirements e.g. minimum amount of land, property and assets owned etc. etc.

The Guurti will elect an Consul every 4 years and this consul will have supreme executive powers as well as vetoing powers over Popular assembly. The Guurti will also have special body of official made up of the most experience members who will act as Censors and oversee the electoral process, tax, spending, and general conduct of those in the gurtii as well as those in the Popular Assembly to make sure there is no corruption.

2) The second house should be the Popular Assembly which is selected via voting by constituencies. These will be responsible for presenting laws and bills to be ratified and/or amended by the Guurti. As well as the everyday municipal administration and collecting taxes.

3) As for your first point on federalism. I will say it is too slow and hands-off a process for us. We need a strong centralized government not just for military security, but also for economic dynamism. You need the state to be as hands-on as possible to engineer growth and development like in East Asia. I fear Federalism will be disjointed and weak at worst and slow and unequal economic growth at best.

[theyuusuf143]

Somalia is going to have 5 federal states. puntland,galmudug,jubba,South west and HIRSHABEEL (Waa magac an u bixiyey oo aan la jecladay hiran iyo shabele) . in my opinion those 5 federal states can be million times more effective than a centralised Government. I also believe that the 4.5 is better than western style democracy, its fair inclusive and free from quarrel. Somalia needs only two more things INCLUSIVE NATIONAL ARMY From all regions who can replace Amisom, TAX COLLECTION from all federal states. That's all. qabiil is not problem its a TOOL that can be controlled by Motivation, they can be motivated to do many good or bad things.

[LiquidHYDROGEN]

Like you guys "earned" it by destroying the Somali Republic and feeding off it's carcass. I believe if there are any clans that have more right to govern Somalia than any other it is the Northern ones.

By earn I mean get elected through the popular vote. Not this undemocratic bullshit of warlords/elders electing the president.

Also, I would favor a clause in the constitution banning Islamist and Communist parties from being allowed in the government. Those two cancerous ideologies should be banned.

PS. Al Shabaab was under Isaaq leadership for a long time. If anything, Isaaq individuals played a huge role in the destruction of Somalia.

You mean the same popular vote that allowed a village in Southern Somalia with no more than 1000 inhabitants to have the same electoral clout as two major regions in the North. Judging by your track records from Somalia's inception to 2015 Amisomia, I wouldn't let a person from Puntland or the South so much as get 1 seat in a future parliament.

If 3 unqualified Isaaq Men can command 3000 Southern foot-soldiers, it says more about the state of the South than it does about Isaaq, especially since these three men have nothing to do with Somaliland or it's people. Stop trying to pass blame for 3 decades of failure onto us. The fact that it's 2015 and you guys still can't accept your abject failure and would rather pass the blame onto Isaaq says a lot about your collective IQ - even birds learn from their mistakes.