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FAH1223 wrote:

Alphanumeric wrote:....yeah... here's where I leave the conversation.

Dude.

Everything is pre destined. But we are ignorant of our futures. There's no such thing as free will as everything is in the will of Allah. But since we're ignorant of the future we have to make choices since we have no clue how things will turn out.

To say Allah SWT hasn't pre destined everything is kufr. Allah is the creator of time and space and is not bound by it.

Listen to Harun Yahya's timelessness of fate lecture

yeah.... no... I'm not doing this conversation

Alpha, it's very simple

If the pen has lifted was said because of what I mean. Let me clarify and say nothing is new to Allah (swt). No information about what we will do is new. When he chose his creation he has seen over their entire deeds and so even though we are making present choices, it has already been seen by Allah (swt) these are the choices we will make. Even if pray and make dua to change our qadar, Allah (swt) has already forseen we will do this and wrote it down.

So yes when the pen is lifeted, nothing can be changed but all the changes have come before the pen is lifted because Allah (swt) has forseen how we will live our live from birth to death including the choices we will make.

No, it really isn't.

..can't seem to stop replying lol

The`Republic wrote:If the pen has lifted was said because of what I mean. Let me clarify and say nothing is new to Allah (swt). No information about what we will do is new. When he chose his creation he has seen over their entire deeds and so even though we are making present choices, it has already been seen by Allah (swt) these are the choices we will make. Even if pray and make dua to change our qadar, Allah (swt) has already forseen we will do this and wrote it down.

So yes when the pen is lifeted, nothing can be changed but all the changes have come before the pen is lifted because Allah (swt) has forseen how we will live our live from birth to death including the choices we will make.

This makes 0 sense, and I don't accept this reiterated apologetic attempt to help students understand a non-understandable paradox. I've come across it many times. It doesn't work.

It makes 0 sense only if you do not believe in the relativity of time or the power of Allah (swt) to see the past and the future.

Maybe we're not meant to understand qadr completely but only accept it. I've seen many shayks try to explain it but it never works.

The republic,

How would you define free-will? if it means your will is independent from Allah's will than that assertion is false. I rather prefer to say we have will/choices we make in the present but all of these choices are not independent of Allah's ultimate will.

The`Republic wrote:It makes 0 sense only if you do not believe in the relativity of time or the power of Allah (swt) to see the past and the future.

Aright, if you say so.

Alchemist wrote:Maybe we're not meant to understand qadr completely but only accept it. I've seen many shayks try to explain it but it never works.

I usually gloss over and force out any thoughts or questions. I've yet to see someone knowledgeable attempt a proper explanation in person.

Alphanumeric wrote:

The`Republic wrote:It makes 0 sense only if you do not believe in the relativity of time or the power of Allah (swt) to see the past and the future.

Aright, if you say so.

Alchemist wrote:Maybe we're not meant to understand qadr completely but only accept it. I've seen many shayks try to explain it but it never works.

I usually gloss over and force out any thoughts or questions. I've yet to see someone knowledgeable attempt a proper explanation in person.

Same here. For me acceptance of the pillar is enough. Once I remember Sh Umal trying to explain qadr to us at Khalid bin walid. After thirty minute speech he told us qadr is one of those things you should leave alone cause many people went astray because of it.

How about the pen being lifted and the hadith of dua changing ones qadr?

Anyone who thinks qadr and free-choice are easy concepts to grasp is a fool. They are natural paradoxes, one asserting that you have a will to move in this world, and then asserting that everything is already predetermined, every action, thought, and moment. So naturally this challenges one to grasp it and understand it. We humans are not very well capable of grasping two opposites and maintaining them to be both true. If ones intellect is not at the point of comprehension, then they must be content at the point of faith. You must first accept that Allah has said in his quran that:

Say: "Nothing will happen to us except what Allah has decreed for us: He is our protector': and on Allah let the Believers put their trust."
Quran 9:51

and

76:3 “We show him the way: whether he be grateful or ungrateful (rests on his will)."

FAH1223 wrote:

Alphanumeric wrote:....yeah... here's where I leave the conversation.

Dude.

Everything is pre destined. But we are ignorant of our futures. There's no such thing as free will as everything is in the will of Allah. But since we're ignorant of the future we have to make choices since we have no clue how things will turn out.

To say Allah SWT hasn't pre destined everything is kufr. Allah is the creator of time and space and is not bound by it.

Listen to Harun Yahya's timelessness of fate lecture

Allah didn't predestine everything in the sense that he wrote it down before it happened sort of like a story that will be played out. He wrote it down because he's the All Knowing and knows the future, and what will happen to each of His creation. So we still have free will, but whatever choices we make will ultimately be the same as what Allah has already written.

Alchemist wrote:

Alphanumeric wrote:

The`Republic wrote:It makes 0 sense only if you do not believe in the relativity of time or the power of Allah (swt) to see the past and the future.

Aright, if you say so.

Alchemist wrote:Maybe we're not meant to understand qadr completely but only accept it. I've seen many shayks try to explain it but it never works.

I usually gloss over and force out any thoughts or questions. I've yet to see someone knowledgeable attempt a proper explanation in person.

Same here. For me acceptance of the pillar is enough. Once I remember Sh Umal trying to explain qadr to us at Khalid bin walid. After thirty minute speech he told us qadr is one of those things you should leave alone cause many people went astray because of it.

How about the pen being lifted and the hadith of dua changing ones qadr?

*shrug*

It might just be we need a thorough understanding of quantum physics before tackling this. Multiple scenarios existing simultaneously. I dunno.

Keyblade wrote:
Allah didn't predestine everything in the sense that he wrote it down before it happened sort of like a story that will be played out. He wrote it down because he's the All Knowing and knows the future, and what will happen to each of His creation. So we still have free will, but whatever choices we make will ultimately be the same as what Allah has already written.

re-read those two lines you wrote

your'e saying the same thing

Keyblade wrote:
Allah didn't predestine everything in the sense that he wrote it down before it happened sort of like a story that will be played out. He wrote it down because he's the All Knowing and knows the future, and what will happen to each of His creation. So we still have free will, but whatever choices we make will ultimately be the same as what Allah has already written.

That is the way I understand it. Anything more makes my head hurt!

Alphanumeric wrote:"Trust in Allah and nothing bad will happen, but if something bad happens accept it because it's from Allah". I dunno, doesn't make you scratch your head?

Trusting in Allah doesn't mean that You will not be faces with a test a trial or a tribulation. It doesn't mean that You won't be faced with something You think is bad but it good. Trusting in Allah, and accepting His decree means that ultimately at the end of the day whether down the road at another point in Your life, or in the Hereafter that whatever happened was for the best. Allah is the best of planners.



I'm sure You can think of many things in Your life You thought was a calamity but that You look back and see that it was actually a good thing.