Somalia should embrace communism

[globetrotter2]

Islam cannot eradicate the cancer called tribalism. Capitalism has failed us.

Only communism can replace the god of somalis aka tribalism.

Below is the communist manifesto of Engels and Marx. The preamble reminds me of contemporary somalia. Any students of Hegel out there?


http://www.myoops.org/cocw/mit/NR/rdonl ... ifesto.pdf

[bareento]

human natures hinders communism from triomphing
besides if communism is declared in third world countries, imperialists will wage a war of attrition and bring it to its knees! the contradiction in the capitalist camp has to go very deep before considering communism!

B.

[Alchemist]

Won't work in today's Somalia. The country was young then and Somalis were eager to be an independent but today Somalis won't come together that easy. You would need a huge army that is loyal to the government but Somalis will only be loyal to clan. They can be bought easily. TFG soldiers sell their weapons to shabab everyday.

[globetrotter2]

Alchemist and Bareento
True, it might not be the ultimate mode of governance but sirely it could be the antidote to tribalism.

Don't you think?

In addition, we are inherently lazy and through communism somalis could each get a bit of the cake.


note; I am staunchly anti communism but it is the only way to salvage our people.

Give me another better governance form to eradicate tribalism and I will be the first to embrace it.

[Alchemist]

Ok but how would you enforce it? Somalis won't just accept it. Where will the man power come from? What if some of the regions refuse, would you use military power? Again it all comes back to clan loyalty. That's all we know.

My personal view is only Islam will work but even with that a lot of heads have to roll. One thing for sure, for any sort of governance to work there will be a lot of killings,negotiations and buying off going on. Somalis are no easy people.

[bareento]

Why eradicate tribalism? there is no magic solution.
the best way is to find out a way to live with it.

If not for foreign intervention, one party has long time won the somali civil war and imposed peace!

B.

[globetrotter2]

Alchemist, the only islamic form that will work is islamism read wahabism which is alien to somalis and will never be accepted by any government.

Communism will work because it is not only an ideology but also underlies how welfare states are run.

In the eyes of the world it is give us anything that works in somalia as long as it is not islamism.

Furthermore, somalis in nature are communists.

Bareento; why not eradicate it for the following reasons;
- it is the root cause of the maligma
- it is dividing our people
- it is not based on science
-it will lead to qabilistans, then clanistans and familystans

[bareento]

Read your Marx,

Tribalism is a step in every peoples history, economic realities/relations are at the origin of tribalism! when economic relations change tribalism will disappear little by little!
for instance if majority somalis become farmers or factory workers, they no longer need tribe to survive and tribalism will diminish in intensity!

B.

[abdisamad3]

you wanna eradicate tribalism from Somalia?
well the only way to do it is nuke the whole of country, except the bantus and xamar cad cads and all the minority Somali groups who dont belong to a clan,
then re-plant them in Somalia as a new people, then you will have a clan free Somalia,

[gurey25]

Read your Marx,

Tribalism is a step in every peoples history, economic realities/relations are at the origin of tribalism! when economic relations change tribalism will disappear little by little!
for instance if majority somalis become farmers or factory workers, they no longer need tribe to survive and tribalism will diminish in intensity!

B.

[Grant]

The US, the United States of Mexico, the United Kingdom, the federated states of Australia, the federated Provinces of Canada, etc. There is nothing wrong with tribalstans. Just use a federated system and have a large federal district.

I don't see how anyone can say that Capitalism has failed Somalia. Except within clans, there certainly hasn't been any Socialism or Communism operating for a while. Cayd, remittances and the gifts of God. All operating within a clan structure. Trade and the clans is what has gotten you by. It's some kind of federation that will be the trick.

[globetrotter2]

Bareento,
Here is your antithesis;
Somalis who are rich, well educated and live in the diaspora are still tribalistic. Tribalism is inherent amongst somalis. It is a disease just like smallpox and should be eliminated. You must be naive to believe that economic progress will lead to its eradication.
Synthesis
To eradicate this god you need another vicious god; my suggestion is communism. Siad Barre succeeded in muting tribalism between 1969-1978. Ask those somalis that know their history.

Abdisamad3, you have a valid point and only communism (perhaps ala Pol Pot) can do the job.

Grant; Flawed argument my friend! The USA, Mexico and the other countries are not based on tribalism. If you intend to create tribalistan in somalia then you need to create clanistans and before you know it you have billions of states. This cancer has mutated and does not stop anywhere.

In order for capitalism to function you need institutions that favour the evolutions of capitalistic modes; and tribalistic institutions defy logic and rationality.

[Grant]

Grant; Flawed argument my friend! The USA, Mexico and the other countries are not based on tribalism. If you intend to create tribalistan in somalia then you need to create clanistans and before you know it you have billions of states. This cancer has mutated and does not stop anywhere.

In order for capitalism to function you need institutions that favour the evolutions of capitalistic modes; and tribalistic institutions defy logic and rationality.

Globetrotter,

The UK is, or was, composed of the Irish, the Scots, the Welsh, the Cornish, the Angles, the Saxons and the Viking Normans. The tribes in the New England colonies were of various Puritans persuasions, followed soon after by the Quakers and the Shakers and the Amish. Also the Methodists and the Catholics and the Jews. Etc. Etc. Utah was, and still is, largely Mormon. Functional tribes don't just come in Dir and Darood flavors. Mexico was tribal before the Spanish; while the government is centrally organized, it does have a federal government. Kid yourself not, the old boys network is not limited to the Marehan.

Capitalism is alive and well in any suuq in Somalia. Given peace and an opportunity, the Diaspora is prepared to do great things.

[globetrotter2]

Grant,
"The UK is, or was, composed of the Irish, the Scots, the Welsh, the Cornish, the Angles, the Saxons and the Viking Normans. The tribes in the New England colonies were of various Puritans persuasions, followed soon after by the Quakers and the Shakers and the Amish. Also the Methodists and the Catholics"

The Irish and the Scots (the celts), and the welsh have their own countries, The Cornish, the angels, the saxons and the normans assimilated.

The Quakers, shakers, methodists, Amish were not a tribe in the proper sense of the word. Methodists, Pentacostals, catholics etc are religious connotations.

We cannot compare the middle age with 2011.

[Grant]

Grant,
"The UK is, or was, composed of the Irish, the Scots, the Welsh, the Cornish, the Angles, the Saxons and the Viking Normans. The tribes in the New England colonies were of various Puritans persuasions, followed soon after by the Quakers and the Shakers and the Amish. Also the Methodists and the Catholics"

The Irish and the Scots (the celts), and the welsh have their own countries, The Cornish, the angels, the saxons and the normans assimilated.

The Quakers, shakers, methodists, Amish were not a tribe in the proper sense of the word. Methodists, Pentacostals, catholics etc are religious connotations.

We cannot compare the middle age with 2011.

The Welsh and the Scots have laws and parliaments separate from the English, but they, along with Northern Ireland and the Isle of Man, share the Sovereign Elizabeth II and are part and parcel of the UK. That's the point. They are quite separate, but united under the Crown.

It's strange hearing a Muslim arguing that religion has no political connotation. It divided the English colonies just like it divided India and Pakistan. Mormons will argue with you to this day that they are a separate people. And if it is not significant. please tell me what is going on in the Near East....

BTW: The Cornish and the Welsh, along with those from Brittany and the Isle of Man, Are all Celts. Also the Basques.