Successful religious state

[wolverine]

Can anyone really tell when was the last time a religious state was successful? I mean in the sense of economic prosperity and in the field of science and technology. We certainly know that a country like Saudiarabia which despite having VAST resources has a gdp per capita of around 20 000 dollars. It has a higher higher murder rate than Japan, South Korea and many western countries. Anyone who knows about the stories coming out from Saudiarabia knows that the 'moral' laws have totally failed. Laws of segretation of women and men have created generations of rampant same sex relations. Certainly, anyone who knows of Somali maids whov'e worked there knows of the risks of rape.

So, those who say that Saudiarabia isn't applying the religious law correctly or any other country for that matter, can you mention a successful case?

[Executive]

How do you define successful and religious state?

[ZubeirAwal]

There will be no successful Islam religious state until the last of the Khulifa Arashidun comes.

[wolverine]

How do you define successful and religious state?

If politics and religion should be mixed, and if someone says its the best system, then it should have the best results. Not a single country with Sharia as a base for its law has been successfull by that standards, on the countrary countries that don't have them are by far more successful then all of them, and they have for a hundreds of years. It has been failing for a atleast 500 years in the world, and atleast 1000 years in the arab world. The great muslim scientists Ibn Sina and al-Farabi were branded as heretics, as both old and modern religious leaders would classify them, because their ideas where pantheistic

[udun]

Iran is a successful religious state. Iranians do have a representative government that is compliant with Shia Islam theology. Their self sufficiency in food; their progress in education, healthcare, and programs that empower the poor; their scientific achievement in many areas in nuclear technology, space technology, and indigenous military industry is a clear example of a country that is continuously renewing itself and on the path to development and progress. All of that has been achieved while Iran is under economic and military embargo since 1979.

Pakistan is also a country whose foundations are based on Islam. One of the main reasons why Pakistan broke away from the rest of India was because this part of Hindustan was Muslim dominated regions. Their advancement in many areas, especially military, education, and food is clear example. While they have many political and social issues, this is a country that clearly learns its weaknesses and wisely chooses its destiny.

The Islamic Caliphate that ruled the world from Africa to Asia to Europe was a clear example of a successful religious state. Cumar Bin-Abdul-Aziz was one of the leaders the world has ever known.

[Executive]

How do you define successful and religious state?

If politics and religion should be mixed, and if someone says its the best system, then it should have the best results. Not a single country with Sharia as a base for its law has been successfull by that standards, on the countrary countries that don't have them are by far more successful then all of them, and they have for a hundreds of years. It has been failing for a atleast 500 years in the world, and atleast 1000 years in the arab world. The great muslim scientists Ibn Sina and al-Farabi were branded as heretics, as both old and modern religious leaders would classify them, because their ideas where pantheistic

Following sharia does not guarantee economic prosperity. And there’s no country that follows sharia A country like Saudi Arabia fails on the most basic principles of sharia.

[Keyblade]

[wolverine]

Iran is a successful religious state. Iranians do have a representative government that is compliant with Shia Islam theology. Their self sufficiency in food; their progress in education, healthcare, and programs that empower the poor; their scientific achievement in many areas in nuclear technology, space technology, and indigenous military industry is a clear example of a country that is continuously renewing itself and on the path to development and progress. All of that has been achieved while Iran is under economic and military embargo since 1979.

So the only religious state successful religious state is a state under economic sanctions. Can't you think of any other example in the last centuries? No other examples? Does Iran have the lowest crime rate, since they claim to be implementing a law from the heavens?

About the part in which they have made progress in science, Iran started from the bottom in the same way that Turkey did, and they've had similar progress. Compare Iran to the progress made by other countries that started from the bottom, countries like South Korea. Iran is still WAY below any other country that has liberal democracy after 30 years.

Following sharia does not guarantee economic prosperity. And there’s no country that follows sharia country like Saudi Arabia fails on the most basic principles of sharia.

Should countries in which Sharia is part of the law have the lowest crime rates?

[wolverine]

Pakistan is also a country whose foundations are based on Islam. One of the main reasons why Pakistan broke away from the rest of India was because this part of Hindustan was Muslim dominated regions. Their advancement in many areas, especially military, education, and food is clear example. While they have many political and social issues, this is a country that clearly learns its weaknesses and wisely chooses its destiny.

The Islamic Caliphate that ruled the world from Africa to Asia to Europe was a clear example of a successful religious state. Cumar Bin-Abdul-Aziz was one of the leaders the world has ever known.

Does Pakistan have among the worlds highest gdp per capita? Does Pakistan have the lowest crime rate? Does Pakistan produce the greatest scientists? There was only one pakistani nobel prize winner, he happened to be the only muslim scientist who won the nobel prize, and he was branded has a heretic in his own country. Also, India has a higher gdp per capita than Pakistan, I wouldn't be suprised if India was more successfull in other areas.

The Islamic Caliphate that ruled the world from Africa to Asia to Europe was a clear example of a successful religious state. Cumar Bin-Abdul-Aziz was one of the leaders the world has ever known.

That was more than a thousand years ago. In those years, mosts systems that gave rule of law was better than those that didn't. Somewhere between 1000-1500 AD that system could not compete and failed as we've seen for these centuries.

[Arabmann]

Can anyone really tell when was the last time a religious state was successful? I mean in the sense of economic prosperity and in the field of science and technology.

The West is paranoid about anything relating to Islamic state, let alone a successful one. Hence why there are (UN & individual) sanctions & embargoes, invasions, occupations, ganging up (NATO+non-NATO countries) against a single perceived enemy, assassinating scientists, incriminating leaders as war criminals (i.e. by International Criminal Court), sabotages, covert/overt operations, media demonetization, etc.

Laws of segretation of women and men have created generations of rampant same sex relations.

There are no scientific studies proving those laws lead to same sex relations. Stories such as the Bacha Bazi boys apply to secularists, not Islamists. Moreover, in a liberal country such as the US, where such laws never existed, I've read reports about only 1/3 of the men being straight, another 1/3 bi, with the last in same sex relations.

[AgentOfChaos]

It's a weak bait if you ask me, but what else would you expect from an amateur troll.

[udun]

So the only religious state successful religious state is a state under economic sanctions. Can't you think of any other example in the last centuries? No other examples? Does Iran have the lowest crime rate, since they claim to be implementing a law from the heavens?

About the part in which they have made progress in science, Iran started from the bottom in the same way that Turkey did, and they've had similar progress. Compare Iran to the progress made by other countries that started from the bottom, countries like South Korea. Iran is still WAY below any other country that has liberal democracy after 30 years.

yes Iranian crime rate is very low compare to other countries in the region. Your comparison to South Korea is disgenuine in my view, since South Korea's economy was bankrolled by billions of aid from USA. While Iranian self determination was denied by the west, South Korea was promoted and protected. After the eight years of devastating war with Iraq, rest of the Arab worl minus Syria, Iran has come a long way, and today it is a thriving well.

Should countries in which Sharia is part of the law have the lowest crime rates?

Countries under Sharia and whose government is an independent one do bring lower crime rates. Even Taliban rule in Afghanistan brought crime rates very low.

[wolverine]

Can anyone really tell when was the last time a religious state was successful? I mean in the sense of economic prosperity and in the field of science and technology.

The West is paranoid about anything relating to Islamic state, let alone a successful one. Hence why there are (UN & individual) sanctions & embargoes, invasions, occupations, ganging up (NATO+non-NATO countries) against a single perceived enemy, assassinating scientists, incriminating leaders as war criminals (i.e. by International Criminal Court), sabotages, covert/overt operations, media demonetization, etc.

This is something that should be expected. The blame is always put on the West. Its got nothing to do with the fact that both Israel and Saudiarabia are behind pushing US and others to put iranian economy to the brink of collapse. These excuses don't make sense since the West would've loved to buy oil from the iranian theocracy just as they do with the Saudi theocracy.

Do you live in the West?

There are no scientific studies proving those laws lead to same sex relations. Stories such as the Bacha Bazi boys apply to secularists, not Islamists. Moreover, in a liberal country such as the US, where such laws never existed, I've read reports about only 1/3 of the men being straight, another 1/3 bi, with the last in same sex relations.

A country which allows childmarriage like Saudiarabia and Afghanistan under the Taliban, definitely has problems without even having the need to prove anything, the laws are in the books. You're right about there being little evidence for scientific reports, though there will soon be such research in Afghanistan by the UN.
About that you claim that it is secularists that are behind these problems.... these stories only originate in theocracies and religious states. Secular in Afghanistan? Afghanistans new constitution is based on the Sharia, ofcourse its not real Sharia, as their will always be the case that their is no real country that fails which is not a religious state.

[wolverine]

yes Iranian crime rate is very low compare to other countries in the region. Your comparison to South Korea is disgenuine in my view, since South Korea's economy was bankrolled by billions of aid from USA. While Iranian self determination was denied by the west, South Korea was promoted and protected. After the eight years of devastating war with Iraq, rest of the Arab worl minus Syria, Iran has come a long way, and today it is a thriving well.

If South Korea, which is a secular liberal democracy got help from the US, why didnt Iran get help from somewhere else if their laws originate from god. The thing is that you're giving one example, which is Iran as a successful model, in which the state is under sanctions. Are there no other religious states which have not been in decline for the last 400 years?

Countries under Sharia and whose government is an independent one do bring lower crime rates. Even Taliban rule in Afghanistan brought crime rates very low.

I'm talking about them having lower crime rates than countries in secular liberal democracies. My argument is that the most prosperous countries in the last 50 years have been liberal democracies. If we compare over the span of 50 years, you'll find few other systems that are more successful, the few exceptions being Hong kong and Singapore, both of which are secular.

[wolverine]

My basic argument is:
There have been no religious states for around 300-400 years that have been more succesfull than most secular states, and certainly not liberal democracies. Why is it so hard for a country that is a religious state to be the most succesfull in terms of prosperity and scientific understanding? Why do they always lag behind? Why did the arabs stand still for 800 years after they called their philosophers heretics?