Malthusian nightmare?

[Lamagoodle]

One common line you always hear from a Somali as regards feeding his family is “ ilaah baa arsaakhayo” “ Allah will provide them” .

While not denying that doctrine because it relates to the will and power of the Merciful and the beneficent, the words “ Ilaah baa arsaakhayo” connote a prevailing wisdom that is a manifest of the moral decay of the values of our society.

If you visit Asia you will be stricken by how hardworking Asians are. On subways, on parks, on the streets and almost everywhere the Asian man and woman is not sitting idly but working improve his/her living standard. Whether it is Ho-chi mihn city, Jakarta, Kuala Lumpur, or the more advanced economies known as Asian Tigers, the picture is the same. The whole population is involved in pitching.

Working and sweating is a virtue enshrined in their minds.

Yes, there is poverty here too but it seems that people are doing something to improve their livings.
If you, on the other hand visit African cities what you witness is the opposite; men sitting idly on street cafes, in squares , on the streets ect and talking air.

An exception is the women of Africa- They are the ones who are working the farms, selling tea or engaged in other kinds of businesses to make ends me.

Kudos to them for feeding Africa!

The Somalis exemplify the laziness anecdotes that usually are the cornerstones of racist discourses.

In the diaspora, it is not abnormal to see men sitting in Malls in Toronto, Minneapolis or Ohio. The European somalis are the worst. They reap the benefits of welfare states and congregate to special areas (mainly on high streets) to discuss/fight on paltry issues that will not augment them individually or their nation. Visit Stockholm, London, Rome, Helsinki or any other major city in Europe and you will find able men loitering in flocks, gesticulating, shouting, spitting on the streets and sometimes fighting amongst themselves providing fuel to racist propaganda that the African has not evolved from the state of the ape.

It is true that the Somali is a political animal who will tell you about conspiracie, dissect political issues and place the blame for his condition and his nations condition elsewhere.

You hear “Gaalos did this and that” “ wadankaanan nacay”; how ironic that he is cursing the hand that is feeding him!

The number of the street hordes increases logarithmically. Newcomers from Somalia join this informal parliament. Instead of going to school kids will also join them. In other cases, the kids will create their own fadhi ku dirir corners and instead of words they will use guns on each other (London, Minneapolis and Toronto provide good illustrations)

At the same time our street lazy guy is planning to bring some of his relatives to the same nation/city that he hates! He is in constant contact with people back in Somalia and telling them about the good life that he is leading and thereby encouraging them to engage a hazardous journey through the high seas. He will send them photographs of him standing in front of a car that does not belong to him or high rise buildings that have been built through the sweat of others. He wouldn’t tell them that he is living on social security and that he is viewed as a lazy, screaming guy, ape, who is polluting the environment!

The downside of all these is that the same guy is bringing kids to this world. Where is the noble notion of “taking responsibility and feeding his family” enshrined in the teachings of his religion which he verbally defends? To him, the same gaalo that is feeding him will provide them with shelter and food. He will call them “Ilaahey baa masaruufayo”!

He will daub the name of a great religion by proclaiming “ assalamu calaykum” to everyone who passes by and will if confronted take a few verses from the holy quran from his dirty mouth to justify laziness, deceit, lies, hypocrisy and what have you.

Back home in Somalia, the mirror image is that every idiot wants to become president. You can imagine the picture on your street in Toronto, London and multiply that by a million; the noise by a trillion, the nacnac by a trillion. And you have the dynamics of Somalia.

Where has honest work, xalaal xuudasho, truths etc the cornerstones of our religion and our noble culture disappeared to?
These idiots whose cerebral assets equals that of a subhuman and whose thought process and reasoning resembles that of an ape in the rainforest are busy reproducing babies who will probably live on welfare, become street thugs, warlords, pseudo politicians and members of the “maxaa la yiri” fadhi ku dirirs.

Meanwhile the production of goods and services to meet the challenge of rising population will stall. Who will cultivate more when our existence is based on someone else sweating for us? Who will work more when laziness has become our middle name?

Undeniably, what we are witnessing is uncontrolled population rise that is not counterbalanced by our increases in our production capacity- an increase in our brain power to develop.

The issue of population rise and its impact on a lazy society such as ours, has been discussed for centuries ever since, a British scholar by the name of Thomas Malthus wrote “An Essay on the principles of Population” 300 years ago.
Malthus painted a nightmare situation that your correspondent thinks might fit with our current situation.

He highlighted the relationship between population growth and resources. He discussed the perils of unplanned population growth when that is not matched by production increase. He wrote “the populations of the world would increase in geometric proportions while the food resources available for them would increase only in arithmetic proportions” and provided the intellectual undertones to the study of demography.

To Malthus, an increase in the population of a nation or the world will reduce the amount of food available to every individual in that society. This by itself was not a novel idea because classical economic theories had before claimed that we live in a world characterized by scarce resources and utilizing them efficiently is the key to progress. Adam Smith was an exception because he claimed that it is what we do with our resources (read productivity) that was important but not scarcity itself.

Malthus asserted that if a nation increased its population without due planning, there is a higher propensity to have a faster population rate than the supply of food to feed them. This will prompt an imbalance in the supply and demand equilibrium and will ultimately will lead to famine (so many people to feed) or outbreak of disease or wars. He strongly believed that human beings are inherently lazy and they will never think about producing more. To him, the human race will continue to procreate as they have a basic urge to burgeon.

I am aware that I will be accused of being too pessimistic, too critical and for not providing answers by the likes of my learned friend, Prince Daadi. Some idiots will not even understand the core message of this piece and will resort to call me an atheist.

But, I strongly believe that before one can propose a solution to a problem it is essential that a proper diagnosis is provided. To paraphrase Karl Marx we live in an illusory contentment with no real glee beneath the surface. My call is to abandon our illusions by engaging in embryonic criticism of our “vale of tears “ of which laziness is the “halo”.

P.s I know I am guilty of carpet generalisations and that there are a few good people (anomalies) out there.

[herndonhomer]

this thread relates to thomas malthus in a very loose way.

[Lamagoodle]

this thread relates to thomas malthus in a very loose way.

Notice the question mark in the title.

[Twist]

As usual, you hit the nail on the head again & that's a good analysis of our people, especially those of us in the diaspora.

Well done, our correspondent.

[PrinceDaadi]

Lam: I do agree with you 1000% except on the last part of challenge of our rising human population. while m a champion of family planing i do believe in Somalia it balances it self since our life expectancy is 48 yrs and nearly 200 children in every 1,000 dont reach yr 5. On Dayuusbaro issue i will not add anything.

I also agree with you defining of the problem at hand is 90% of the solution, what is more we do need Social critics who do criticize us when we start losing the right direction, on this issue we have been at loss.

[barbarossa]

One common line you always hear from a Somali as regards feeding his family is “ ilaah baa arsaakhayo” “ Allah will provide them” .

While not denying that doctrine because it relates to the will and power of the Merciful and the beneficent, the words “ Ilaah baa arsaakhayo” connote a prevailing wisdom that is a manifest of the moral decay of the values of our society.

If you visit Asia you will be stricken by how hardworking Asians are. On subways, on parks, on the streets and almost everywhere the Asian man and woman is not sitting idly but working improve his/her living standard. Whether it is Ho-chi mihn city, Jakarta, Kuala Lumpur, or the more advanced economies known as Asian Tigers, the picture is the same. The whole population is involved in pitching.

Working and sweating is a virtue enshrined in their minds.

Yes, there is poverty here too but it seems that people are doing something to improve their livings.
If you, on the other hand visit African cities what you witness is the opposite; men sitting idly on street cafes, in squares , on the streets ect and talking air.

An exception is the women of Africa- They are the ones who are working the farms, selling tea or engaged in other kinds of businesses to make ends me.

Kudos to them for feeding Africa!

The Somalis exemplify the laziness anecdotes that usually are the cornerstones of racist discourses.

In the diaspora, it is not abnormal to see men sitting in Malls in Toronto, Minneapolis or Ohio. The European somalis are the worst. They reap the benefits of welfare states and congregate to special areas (mainly on high streets) to discuss/fight on paltry issues that will not augment them individually or their nation. Visit Stockholm, London, Rome, Helsinki or any other major city in Europe and you will find able men loitering in flocks, gesticulating, shouting, spitting on the streets and sometimes fighting amongst themselves providing fuel to racist propaganda that the African has not evolved from the state of the ape.

It is true that the Somali is a political animal who will tell you about conspiracie, dissect political issues and place the blame for his condition and his nations condition elsewhere.

You hear “Gaalos did this and that” “ wadankaanan nacay”; how ironic that he is cursing the hand that is feeding him!

The number of the street hordes increases logarithmically. Newcomers from Somalia join this informal parliament. Instead of going to school kids will also join them. In other cases, the kids will create their own fadhi ku dirir corners and instead of words they will use guns on each other (London, Minneapolis and Toronto provide good illustrations)

At the same time our street lazy guy is planning to bring some of his relatives to the same nation/city that he hates! He is in constant contact with people back in Somalia and telling them about the good life that he is leading and thereby encouraging them to engage a hazardous journey through the high seas. He will send them photographs of him standing in front of a car that does not belong to him or high rise buildings that have been built through the sweat of others. He wouldn’t tell them that he is living on social security and that he is viewed as a lazy, screaming guy, ape, who is polluting the environment!

The downside of all these is that the same guy is bringing kids to this world. Where is the noble notion of “taking responsibility and feeding his family” enshrined in the teachings of his religion which he verbally defends? To him, the same gaalo that is feeding him will provide them with shelter and food. He will call them “Ilaahey baa masaruufayo”!

He will daub the name of a great religion by proclaiming “ assalamu calaykum” to everyone who passes by and will if confronted take a few verses from the holy quran from his dirty mouth to justify laziness, deceit, lies, hypocrisy and what have you.

Back home in Somalia, the mirror image is that every idiot wants to become president. You can imagine the picture on your street in Toronto, London and multiply that by a million; the noise by a trillion, the nacnac by a trillion. And you have the dynamics of Somalia.

Where has honest work, xalaal xuudasho, truths etc the cornerstones of our religion and our noble culture disappeared to?
These idiots whose cerebral assets equals that of a subhuman and whose thought process and reasoning resembles that of an ape in the rainforest are busy reproducing babies who will probably live on welfare, become street thugs, warlords, pseudo politicians and members of the “maxaa la yiri” fadhi ku dirirs.

Meanwhile the production of goods and services to meet the challenge of rising population will stall. Who will cultivate more when our existence is based on someone else sweating for us? Who will work more when laziness has become our middle name?

Undeniably, what we are witnessing is uncontrolled population rise that is not counterbalanced by our increases in our production capacity- an increase in our brain power to develop.

The issue of population rise and its impact on a lazy society such as ours, has been discussed for centuries ever since, a British scholar by the name of Thomas Malthus wrote “An Essay on the principles of Population” 300 years ago.
Malthus painted a nightmare situation that your correspondent thinks might fit with our current situation.

He highlighted the relationship between population growth and resources. He discussed the perils of unplanned population growth when that is not matched by production increase. He wrote “the populations of the world would increase in geometric proportions while the food resources available for them would increase only in arithmetic proportions” and provided the intellectual undertones to the study of demography.

To Malthus, an increase in the population of a nation or the world will reduce the amount of food available to every individual in that society. This by itself was not a novel idea because classical economic theories had before claimed that we live in a world characterized by scarce resources and utilizing them efficiently is the key to progress. Adam Smith was an exception because he claimed that it is what we do with our resources (read productivity) that was important but not scarcity itself.

Malthus asserted that if a nation increased its population without due planning, there is a higher propensity to have a faster population rate than the supply of food to feed them. This will prompt an imbalance in the supply and demand equilibrium and will ultimately will lead to famine (so many people to feed) or outbreak of disease or wars. He strongly believed that human beings are inherently lazy and they will never think about producing more. To him, the human race will continue to procreate as they have a basic urge to burgeon.

I am aware that I will be accused of being too pessimistic, too critical and for not providing answers by the likes of my learned friend, Prince Daadi. Some idiots will not even understand the core message of this piece and will resort to call me an atheist.

But, I strongly believe that before one can propose a solution to a problem it is essential that a proper diagnosis is provided. To paraphrase Karl Marx we live in an illusory contentment with no real glee beneath the surface. My call is to abandon our illusions by engaging in embryonic criticism of our “vale of tears “ of which laziness is the “halo”.

P.s I know I am guilty of carpet generalisations and that there are a few good people (anomalies) out there.

Lamagodle, whatever else they accuse you, I doubt, it would be for mincing words. Now, it is obvious that for a reason known only to you, you have embarked on mission to put under the microscope all that is wrong with our society while you, conspicuously, neglect to mention one single positive thing, except, perhaps, when, as an afterthought, and in the tail end of your piece, you casually apologize for generalizing and show some traces of concern that you might have, in the process, missed a one or two good Somalis. I need hardly to remind you brother, In this world, there is no one, be it individually or collectively, in this case, us, Maryooleey, who is wholly bad or good. So, for you to go out of your way to paint the majority of Somalis, if indeed, not all Somalis, as good for nothing lazy bunch, whose sole raison d'être, among other things, is to produce babies at a industrial level and abuse social welfare systems of the West, is, in my humble opinion, disingenuous, at best.

[Lamagoodle]

Twist, asxante saaxib. Beryahaan xanaaq ayaa iga soo haray.

Barbarossa; Could you please give us an example of something positive about somalis? I look forward to reading about them. That is a challenge awaiting you. And don’t resort to Geeljire twaddle of waan daadshe.

There are of course anomalies. Few individuals have succeeded in terms of education and wealth. But, on general terms we are at lowest stratum in every imaginable measurement.

Prince Daadi: it is true that higher birthrates are substituted for by high mortality rates. That generally applies to somalis in Somalia. In the diaspora, the situation is different; what you generally have are families that consist of many kids, an absent father, a struggling mom and ultimately a lost generation of kids. The mortality rates of this group will be lower.

[gurey25]

Malthus? thats racist fool.
no he is a genuis if he can get millions of the worlds idiots to believe in his crap.


but as for your main point, yes.. the somalis in the diaspora are mostly failures,
there are bright lights but they are in the minority.

[grandpakhalif]

What constitutes failure and success?

To an average Somali the standard of success may be different than a Western perspective. If I have my own house, food on the table and friends and family I am relatively happy and consider myself successful. Just because Somalis (whom have just been here for a couple decades) haven't integrated to the high-maintenance "degree" type of success does not mean they are any more deficient than any other ethnic diaspora.

The old-timers grew up in a relatively peaceful Somalia and saw their fathers not necessarily over-work themselves and they adapted this mentality when they came to their host country. Workaholic, 9-5 is just not in there blood ever since the Nomad days.


I view success as being closer to your Lord, having a nice family and eating well. We should thank god that we have these little things and look to those below who are suffering immensely.

[DayaxJeclee]

Good read, lama soomaalida oo dhan isku mid ma ahnoo, waxaan kuu og ahay oo markaan yar aan arki jiray gobolada 2 shabeelle ila gobolaka banaadir. waligay ma arkin dad salka dhulka ku hayaan afkana leerinaayaan.
4 subaxnimo dadka xamar caanoha keeno, maliintii oo dhan qorax suuqa tagaan, biyo haddii xaffada ka go'aan, fuusto biyo xafada ku wareejiyaan IWM.
Qurbo jooga sidii hore hadda ma ahan, dad dadaalaayo oo dhaqdhaqaayo aa hadda jiro.




Barbarossa waan ku salaamay walaalkiis.

[gurey25]

What constitutes failure and success?

To an average Somali the standard of success may be different than a Western perspective. If I have my own house, food on the table and friends and family I am relatively happy and consider myself successful. Just because Somalis (whom have just been here for a couple decades) haven't integrated to the high-maintenance "degree" type of success does not mean they are any more deficient than any other ethnic diaspora.

The old-timers grew up in a relatively peaceful Somalia and saw their fathers not necessarily over-work themselves and they adapted this mentality when they came to their host country. Workaholic, 9-5 is just not in there blood ever since the Nomad days.


I view success as being closer to your Lord, having a nice family and eating well. We should thank god that we have these little things and look to those below who are suffering immensely.

wow again i agree with you, is it me or are you maturing?
inshallah you will be cured of this strange cult you belong to and you will be a great person, mashallah.;

yes we shoud not see success the way the west see it, but we have failed because allot of somali families suffered from cul;ture clash, and broken families.
allot of them turned to crime and adopted western culture and thus have become failures.
allot of the have also failed to get the education which they had an excellent opportunity to get.

but yes, i do not see a mortgage, a 9-5 job and a 2 week holiday a year along with health insurance as success,
i see it as a nightmare.

[Alphanumeric]

Interesting points made throughout the entire thread by almost all posters.

Malthus was an arrogant, delusional racist. However, I've found myself laughing when my mother said not to long ago that "Allah will provide", when I mentioned I'm not financially prepared for a wife and kids. Somalis love to attack the gaalo that have treated them relatively kindly for decades. It at times bewilders me as to why any government would willingly accept refugees who've proven to be unproductive and problematic for society. We drop out of school, get into trouble, are unwilling or perhaps unable to integrate, insult governments in our khutbahs, and yet boast about our newest subsidized housing grab and gleefully accept welfare. Then we're told by our parents to get married and have kids, because "Allah will provide". I can't accept that mindset. I believe in adequate and sensible family planning that will ensure a healthy and comfortable living standard for all members of the household. If one is unable to think that far ahead, they shouldn't have kids. Unfortunately, population control suggests a top-down model employed by governments. That should never happen, so long as it is an attempt to limit growth. To educate a population on the importance of planning on the other hand, should be encouraged. I hope that is the central point made by the OP.

Daadi highlighted the situation in Somalia which I believe is correct, but the transference of "Allah will provide" from Somalia into the diaspora has only proven to be detrimental. But as gramps noted, cultural perspectives of failure and success are important to understand. It is true that what may be successful to one man may not be considered similarly by another. I think this point should be critically examined. Is the Somali culture inherently unproductive? Is our success considered only in the most immediate of terms, or in the intangible? How do we reconcile our cultural understanding of success and our religious teaching of work and independence? How does our culture differ from those of other immigrants who've proven to integrate and have a much higher rate of independence? Success and failure may differ between cultures, but how can a physically capable individual suggest it is successful to be unable to provide for themselves and their family? If that is not failure in the context of our culture, then what is?

[Sagaashan]

Lama nice points, especially as it relates to the diaspora. It almost seems that failure is becoming more enshrined and institutionalized in our culture. For instance, I remember a father in London who had eight kids who by all standards were failures-bad grades, bad attitude, not working. When the father went to fadhi ku dirir, and asked about his kids he would say 'waa sideed.' and once he mentioned that you could hear the 'mashallahs' no one followed up on how they are doing. Unfortunately, that father has moved to have more kids and another wife.

Malthus has been discussed by Sh. Mustafe Xaaji in great detail. One important fact he mentioned is that the more growth in the population, the more ways and means that become available to feed them. In his argument, Allah seems to open more doors in terms of technology and modern techniques of farming or mass production to cope with such a dilemma.

[ElfRuler]

Malthus was only partially correct. Lack of resources and increasing population are two factors that don't reflect the condition of Somalis today. The problem, aside from obvious laziness, is that people are not doing anything to acquire the purchasing power they need to sustain themselves and their families. Certain individuals are able to obtain food by profiting from their business, selling services, or working for someone else to earn an income. Observing food output per head will not explain why the the world's destitute poor are growing in number, especially, when the world has reach a point where we have the technology, the knowledge, and the man-power to mass-produce enough food to fed everyone on earth. Lack of food (resources) and growing population is not the problem, but lack of purchasing power and entitlements. A substantial portion of society is not able to get employed, acquire land, receive higher wages, or have enough savings to combat inflated food prices. There is plenty of resources and food in Somalia, yet unfortunately a large portion of the population are not employed, don't own arable land to grow food on, and don't have the necessary tools to start a business. At the end of the day, we live in a world where one faces hunger due to lack of purchasing power or the inability to own anything of value that could purchase them food. Just because you supply a nation with food does not mean that each individual has the commanding power to purchase food.

[Jaidi]

For a well read man like yourself Lamgoodle, it surprises me to see you accept the Malthusian argument uncritically. Especially considering its been challenged and deconstructed by a variety of scholars over the years. As to your broader point regarding the diaspora IMO they are natural growing pains of a very young community. I hardly doubt the status quo with regards to integration will always stay the same. There are also some communities that have done better than others its wrong to create a generalized portrait across the board. Self criticism is good, but I think you're just on the opposite end of the spectrum that you are criticizing.