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I first noticed this a few years ago, but I wasn't entirely sure where or why, but it's definitely become clear that the Dhulbahante lineage has a piece missing.

Consider this: There were 4 men that tradition and various chronicles state were alive during the time of Ahmed Gurey that I have lineages for:

Amir Nur, the Marehan sultan of Harar who succeeded Ahmed Gurey as leader of Harar
http://www.abtirsi.com/view.php?person=5488

Hirabu, a Marehan chief mentioned in the Futuh al-Habasha
http://www.abtirsi.com/view.php?person=1652

Sultan Umardin, the young Sultan of Adal who Ahmed Gurey put on the throne
http://www.abtirsi.com/view.php?person=883

Garad Shirshore, who was a contemporary of Ahmed Gurey
http://www.abtirsi.com/view.php?person=441

All these men lived about 14 generations ago, in the middle of the 16th century, but while the first three count about 25 generations to Darod, Garad Shirshore counts only 11. In fact if you remove the generations between Harti and Kombe (which Dhulbahante do not include) there are only 9.

There are something like 14 generations missing between Garad Shirshore and Harti

There is nothing missing the dhulbahante lineage is correct ask any Dhulbahante to do his Abtirsi no generations are missing Dhulbahante has generally a shorter abtirsi than the rest of his Kablalax darod cousins. Its well noted that the dhulbahante lineage is shorter than the wersangali and Merehaan and Majeerteen. I am not sure if Dhulbahante took part of the Ahmed guray wars. They say that Dhulbahantes or siciid harti was mothered by the daughter of Muhammad al Carab Ibn Sheikh isxaaq her name was fatima.

I heard this the other day actually, it is interesting as it is another chronological point, Isaaq died in the 14th century, and his granddaughter was probably alive in the mid 14th century which would put Dhulbahante's birth year around that time as well.

If the longest Majerteen abtirsi are to be believed, Harti's life was the latter half of the 9th century, if the shorter Warsangeli abtirsi is more reliable then Harti lived closer to the end of the 11th century. If we pick a compromise between the two, Harti lived somewhere in the neighborhood of 1000 years ago, so there is possibly a 300-500 year gap between Dhulbahante and Harti? Roughly 9 to 14 missing generations or thereabouts.

Since the names beyond the clan patriarch are not usually memorized, is it conceivable that they have been lost? Or could they still exist somewhere?

Bal illahay baan idinku dharshayee, Khalid Ali/Emperior5 inadan ka waayen meel Daarod lagu hadal hayo. Beesha Isaaq, wixii ka weyn 30 jir, are suffering from Post-traumatic disorder. Yacni, weli gumeesigii Daarod kuhayay ba dhagahooda ka guuxaya. i.e X.Playa, Emperior5, Gurey.

James Dahl, you're on the path of marrying a Somali woman, if not already, having kids, giving them Somali names and claiming a Somali tribe that you like. The process of "Conquering from Within" has begun, I see.

James Dahl wrote:I heard this the other day actually, it is interesting as it is another chronological point, Isaaq died in the 14th century, and his granddaughter was probably alive in the mid 14th century which would put Dhulbahante's birth year around that time as well.

If the longest Majerteen abtirsi are to be believed, Harti's life was the latter half of the 9th century, if the shorter Warsangeli abtirsi is more reliable then Harti lived closer to the end of the 11th century. If we pick a compromise between the two, Harti lived somewhere in the neighborhood of 1000 years ago, so there is possibly a 300-500 year gap between Dhulbahante and Harti? Roughly 9 to 14 missing generations or thereabouts.

Since the names beyond the clan patriarch are not usually memorized, is it conceivable that they have been lost? Or could they still exist somewhere?

James let me tell you no Somali forgets parts of his abtirsi Somalis memorize their abtirsi like they are ayaats of the Holy Quran, I would go for the wersangali lineage its more reliable they are much smaller than majeerteen and never inserted other names in their lineage. No Somali male can forget 10 names in his lineage they happened just to have a shorter genealogy maybe a DNA test would do it.

Yeah it could be I suppose

James Dahl wrote:I first noticed this a few years ago, but I wasn't entirely sure where or why, but it's definitely become clear that the Dhulbahante lineage has a piece missing.

Consider this: There were 4 men that tradition and various chronicles state were alive during the time of Ahmed Gurey that I have lineages for:

Amir Nur, the Marehan sultan of Harar who succeeded Ahmed Gurey as leader of Harar
http://www.abtirsi.com/view.php?person=5488

Hirabu, a Marehan chief mentioned in the Futuh al-Habasha
http://www.abtirsi.com/view.php?person=1652

Sultan Umardin, the young Sultan of Adal who Ahmed Gurey put on the throne
http://www.abtirsi.com/view.php?person=883

Garad Shirshore, who was a contemporary of Ahmed Gurey
http://www.abtirsi.com/view.php?person=441

All these men lived about 14 generations ago, in the middle of the 16th century, but while the first three count about 25 generations to Darod, Garad Shirshore counts only 11. In fact if you remove the generations between Harti and Kombe (which Dhulbahante do not include) there are only 9.

There are something like 14 generations missing between Garad Shirshore and Harti

I was told by my uncle that its 10 generations that are missing, i count 29 up to daarood.

i recently went on this confusing website called abtirsi.com fiqidoor iyo falaqdoor iyo wax aan la garanayn bay ku dareen abtirsiga dhulbahante

It's a touchy subject so it's hard to discuss without upsetting someone.

as long as one doesn't insult then it should be fine.
Are you dhulbahante?