Definitive proof that the Hijab is not only a purely socio-cultural construct

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Leftist
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Definitive proof that the Hijab is not only a purely socio-cultural construct

Post by Leftist »

but that it is a elitist class-based discriminatory construct as well.

First off, the niqab/khimar/hijab/jilbab were practised way before the dawn of Islam, not only Persian/Roman high society, where it was a mark of social status(see HBO's Rome), but also in Jahili-era of Arabia:
To start, the niqab is not something uniquely Islamic. Rather, nearly 400 years prior to Islam, the Christian writer Tertullian — himself exorting unmarried Christian “virgins” to cover their faces — reveals to us that women living in the Arabian peninsula did likewise:

Arabia’s heathen females will be your judges, who cover not only the head, but the face also, so entirely, that they are content, with one eye free, to enjoy rather half the light than to prostitute the entire face. A female would rather see than be seen.

— Tertullian (d. 220 CE), On the Veiling of Virgins
In Medina there were women walking around bare breasted! This is a historical fact.
there were uncovered women in Medina because the slaves were not allowed to cover!
So Muslims should get out of this obsession with women! It’s a sickness in our own hearts. Just lower your gaze! We’re living in a society where people are walking around naked and we’re worried about a girl not wearing a scarf on her head
https://tradicionalista.wordpress.com/2 ... -on-hijab/
Hamza Yuusuf speech in 2007


Barechested ???!!! WHY???!!! :damn:

Cuz yo' boy Umar finna lay a-hurtin' on'em, should they have the audacity to actually want to be modest and cover up. And why would he do that? Because Umar strongly believed in slavery(the Reformation will officially abolish slavery) and he felt that slaves should know their place and not try to appear like "free women".
In other reports, Umar is reported “hitting” the jilbab off of slave women, or exhorting them to remove it:

عبد الرزاق عن معمر عن قتادة عن أنس أن عمر ضرب أمة لآل أنس رآها متقنعة قال اكشفي رأسك لا تشبهين بالحرائر

Umar hit the slave women from the family of Anas ibn Malik, when he saw them covered and said, “Uncover your head, and do not resemble the free women.”

— Abd al-Razzaq al-Sanani (d. 211 AH/826 CE). Al-Musannaf

Umar’s actions seem to have caused disagreement among Muslim jurists. Was Umar simply removing her jilbab — or the khimar as well? Unfortunately, the answer seems to have skewed disproportionately in favor of the latter: Slave women were not only prohibited from wearing the jilbab, but also the khimar. Jurists in the following centuries allowed Muslim slave women to pray without a head covering, and walk topless in public. The slave woman’s awrah — the legally delineated area that must be covered in order to avoid sin — became the same as the man, from the navel to the knees. Whereas the free woman’s awrah encompassed only her face, hands, (and in some cases) feet
Slave women were not only prohibited from wearing the jilbab, but also the khimar. Jurists in the following centuries allowed Muslim slave women to pray without a head covering, and walk topless in public. The slave woman’s awrah — the legally delineated area that must be covered in order to avoid sin — became the same as the man, from the navel to the knees. Whereas the free woman’s awrah encompassed only her face, hands, (and in some cases) feet.

ولا ينبغي للرجل أن ينظر من أمة غيره إذا كانت بالغة أو تشتهي مثلها أو توطأ إلا ما ينظر إليه من ذوات المحرم ولا بأس بأن ينظر إلى شعرها وإلى صدرها وإلى ثديها وعضدها وقدمها وساقها ولا ينظر إلى بطنها ولا إلى ظهرها ولا إلى ما بين السرة منها حتى يجاوز الركبة

It is not permissible for a man to look at a slave woman other than his own, if she has reached puberty (baligha), or he has a desire for her, except what it is permissible to look at from his relatives (maharam). So, there is no harm that he look at her hair, her chest, her breasts, her arm, her foot, or leg(editor's note: let's not forget that we are "better" and have "higher morality" than the gaalo, #mmkaythxbye) And he does not look at her stomach or back, or what is between the navel and the knees.

— Muhammad ibn al-Hassan al-Shaybani (d. 189 AH/804 CE). Al-Mabsut, vol. 3, p. 47

Although Muslims now live in societies that have abandoned slavery (due to colonial pressure over the past two centuries, little effort from Muslims themselves), this radical dynamic would have incredibly influenced Muslim societies and perceptions of Islam. The differences in modesty between slave women and free women would be immediately clear. The concerns in the Muslim world today over women not wearing the hijab pale in comparison to the slave markets, and topless slaves of centuries ago (yes, you read the above quote correctly, classical Muslim jurists also permitted men to look at their female relatives’ breasts). The fact that most modern Muslims lack cognizance of this fact is simply damning, and speaks volumes to the ways in which society, culture, and government policies can come to shape perception of religion, the limits of scholastic worldviews, and also how people can retain the label of religion, but come to believe whatever they want. I wonder what all the Muslim feminists who defend hijab in the name of modesty would think, if given a full accounting of this history, where Muslim women were in fact punished if they tried to be modest?
However, there is a near consensus between the four schools of Sunni Islamic law that slave women either did not have to — or were prohibited from — wearing clothing to cover their heads and breasts.
I lower my head in shame, part II :meles:

No, lowering my head in shame is not enough; i cringe in shame & embarrassment :tocry:
How exactly this transition took place from tacit modesty for slave women, to the view that they were basically sexual objects who couldn’t even cover their bodies, is unknown to me. However, it was clearly an issue of contention within the first Islamic centuries, which came to last up until the 19th century
We will have a reverse transition, a transition away from the polluted-dogma(hijab is obligatory!, but slaves can't wear it and have to walk around half-naked) concocted by ignorant men in the 7th and 8th century, and a transition back to the original message of Islam: wamaa arsalnaaka ilaa raxmatin lil caalimeen, a message of mercy & moderation to all of mankind.

The Reformation is coming :up:

Source: https://selfscholar.wordpress.com/2012/ ... lamic-law/
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Re: Definitive proof that the Hijab is not only a purely socio-cultural construct

Post by Leftist »

#Cliff's note's/#too long; didn't read/TL;DR/ DIDN'T READ LOL/#Uncle Ruckus Sayeth/LOL Y U MAD DOE:

- The hijab/niqab/khimar/jilbab/headcovering/headscarf have nothing to do with Islam; it is a ku dayasho, and a cultural import from Roman/Persian "high society" where "highborn" women would wear it and lord it over the commoners and the slaves who were expressly forbidden from wearing head-garments. Why? dee laangaab/adoon sidee bay xijaab oo xiranii?

-Same thing happened after the death of our beloved Mustafa, whereby only free women were allowed to wear the hijab/khimar, and if any female slave decided to wear it out of modesty, she would literally be beaten. Yaa Salaam 3alal rujoolah wal al-akhlaaq al-rafee3a. Ilaaahay magaciisa baan ku dhaartay, I wish I was there when Umar was striking that muslimah; let's just say, shaqo la yaqaano baan qaban lahaa. Cumuroow, yaa joog ku daho, I''m a Somali from the year 2016, sxb, bahal sabaaxad iyo teesto la daho baan aqaanaa.

- If the hijab was even remotely about modesty or following Allah's commands, then all women would be encouraged to wear it. But no, it has nothing to do with our deen; back then it was a elitist class-based tool, and today, it is used to control & subjugate women. Try wearing a heat-attracting black abaya in 115 degree weather and see how you feel, Shaykh Mother-Hubbard. But as long as you tell them "This is what God wants for you", I guess that makes it, ok, right? Wrong. The Reformation is here, mother-faarax, come out slowly with your cumaamad in your hands.

- The days where ignorant men who designated themselves as the official GateKeepers of the Faith thundered from atop their minbars down to us lowly masses telling us "this is God's command's" are long gone. We are living in the Information Age of Shaykh Google and Calaamah Wikipedia, and after consulting with them both and more importantly with our intellect & reason, we have reached the decision that God does not want Muslim women to bake under a ferocious sun and suffer from rickets and all sorts of vitamin deficiency. No. He wants them to be autonomous beings, His creation, who answer to none but Him. Which means they are free to do as they please: wear the hijab or not wear it. Free will >(greater than symbol) Religious Dogma(no matter how "authenticated")


Hence, the absolute need for a Reformation that shatters, definitively & decisively, the bloody sheeko & dogmatic shenanigas of the past, so that Muslims may, once and for all, discard the religious demons of yesteryear that have wasted & ruined the lives of hundreds of millions of people, Muslim & non-Muslim alike, across the centuries.

The Reformation continues :up:
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Re: Definitive proof that the Hijab is not only a purely socio-cultural construct

Post by Leftist »

Note: While I have some reservations about the video below and about the author, he does make very good points in a hard-hitting way.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CsU3D59XC4
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Re: Definitive proof that the Hijab is not only a purely socio-cultural construct

Post by Leftist »

Image
Al-Albani:
Narrated Abd Al-A’laa from Mo’ammar from Al-Zuhri from Anas. (Al-Albani: I say: This chain is Authentic, if Al-Zuhri heard it from Anas) Narrated Alee Ibn Mos’har from Al-Mokhtar Ibn Folfol from Anas Ibn Malik who said: A slave girl of Muhajirin or Ansaar came to Umar wearing Jilbab (complete Hijab), he said: "Have you been freed?" She said: “No!” He said: “Put it off your head!” Jilbab is for the freed women. So she hesitated, so he got up to her with the whip (Darrah), and he hit her on the head, until she threw it.
Al-Albani: I say: This this is Saheeh 'Authentic' by the criteria of Muslim.
I wish you tried that in front of me, O Great Caliph.

They need to hurry up and invent the time-machine already, rag baa uu baahan in la karbaasho.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

And just when I thought it couldn't get more unmanly, dishonourable, & disgusting:

Image
Ibn Hajar:

Narration of Umar: "Take off your your veil, you stinky! Are you resembling yourself to free women?" I haven’t seen it in this form, but it is famously known that Umar has beaten a slave-girl who had veil and he said "Take off your veil, and do not resemble yourself to free women", it has been narrated by AbdulRazaq through an Authentic chain. And from Abdulrazaq from Ibn Jarij who said: "Umar beat Aqeela a slave-girl of Abi Musa because she wore Jilbaab (full veil)."

And Ibn Abi Shayba recorded another incident through an Authentic chain from Anas that: Umar saw a slave-girl wearing Jilbaab (Full veil), whereupon he said: "Have you been freed?" She said: “No! He said: “put it off your head.” Jilbaab is for the freed women. She hesitated, so he went up to her with the whip (Darrah), and he hit her on the head, until she threw it. And narrated it Muhammad ibn Al-Hassan in Al-Athaar from Abi Hanifa from Himad from Ibraheem that Umar used to beat the slave-girls who wore veil and used to say: "Do not resemble yourselves to free women!"
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

7th century wisdom & morality: " The Hijab is divienly ordered and obligatory and all muslim women should wear it except for slaves who only need to cover what is between their navel and their knees; they can walk around bare-breasted and that's perfectly ok, because they are "less than", they are property, you know, like a cow or a sheep"
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Re: Definitive proof that the Hijab is not only a purely socio-cultural construct

Post by Leftist »

Oh, it gets worse:

Image

Al-Bayhaqi:

Narrated Aboo Al-Qasim Abdul Rahman Ibn Ubaidullah Al-Harfi in Baghdad, from Alee Ibn Muhammad Ibn Al-Zubair from Al-Hasan Ibn Alee Ibn Affan from Zaid Ibn Al-Hebab, from Himad Ibn Salama from Thamana Ibn Abdullah Ibn Anas from his grandfather Anas Ibn Malik who said: "The slave-girls of Umar were serving us with uncovered hair and their breasts were shaking."

Footnote: Narration is Saheeh 'Authentic'.
____________________________________________________________________________________
Image
Al-Bayhaqi has narrated through Hamad Ibn Salama from Thamana Ibn Abdullah Ibn Anas from his grandfather Anas who said: "The slave-girls of Umar were serving us with uncovered hair and their breasts were shaking."
:childplease: :damn:

What is this, a titty bar?
Last edited by Leftist on Tue Apr 26, 2016 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Definitive proof that the Hijab is not only a purely socio-cultural construct

Post by Leftist »

All of these "narrations" are either from Bukhari and Muslims, or, they have been authenticated as having a perfect isnaad(chain of transmission) by the preeminent scholar of hadith of all time: Al-Albaani. Soooooo, what was that saying? Live by the sword(literalist dogma), and die by the sword(literalist dogma) that's what we have in this thread. Isn't ironic? How many times have you, beesha caqli-dugaag, insisted that literal ism is the only acceptle way, and now as you helplessly watch your entire belief structure crumble when you find out that your "heros" not only amassed slaves and expanded slavery from China to South Asia to North Africa to Spain, but that slaves were PHYSICALLY BEATEN if they wanted to cover up, and that they were forced to walk around bare-breasted. So much for the "Oh the good old days in the 7th century when everything was great and pure and holy and virtuous" #IRONY: In the 21st century, men have to go to strip club in order to see some naaso; but in the super-pious 7th century, all you had to do was walk in the street and see bare-breasted slave walking around. Yaa salaam 3alal 3ifa wal akhlaaq al-saamiya!


"But-but-but-but, we still don't need a Reformation. What we need is to follow the way of the Salaf-ul-Salih who used to own & trade slaves like they were livestock and beat them if they dared cover up."

You have no choice: In this Golden Information Age of ours, where embarrassing & disillusioning historical facts are a google search away, The Reformation surrounds you like oxygen you breathe in the atmosphere; and it's only a matter of time before Muslims become fully secular, fully liberal, and fully progressive..........................like the rest of the damn world.


Zumaale, why don't you come in here, and in the name of "theological purity & permanence", defend the following:

- How slave-women were forbidden, on pain of karbaash, to cover up and dress modestly
- How they would walk around bare-breasted in the punishing heat of Medinah
- How they were bought and sold like so many cattle
- How they would serve the "pious Companions" with their "breasts wobbling"(literal translation of the narration).
- How this proves, undeniably & irrefutably, that the hijab/khimar/jilbab is a purely elitist socio-cultural instrument, and that it has nothing to do with Islam. Umar's rationale for beating the shit out of slaves was so that they "knew their place" and didn't have the nerve to appear or dress like "free women".


Come in homie, be a big man and defend your beliefs(which has nothing to do with actual Islam, and is merely the hantatac of 7th century Ay-rabs & Pur-shans. After reading this thread, are you still opposed to a Reformation that will make Martin Luther's look like a minor revision?
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Re: Definitive proof that the Hijab is not only a purely socio-cultural construct

Post by gegiroor »

Quit throwing your rubbish onto our noses, you third_rate uncle Tom and gaal wannabe. We ain't reading it and could careless about your fake gaalo-inspired and gaalo-driven bogus 'Reformation'
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Re: Definitive proof that the Hijab is not only a purely socio-cultural construct

Post by Leftist »

^^ Thank you for acknowledging your failure and inability to provide a substantive response, and since silence is akin to consent, it means you accept all the points, and historical facts, shown in this thread.

Please continue awaiting the Apocalypse where Treebeard and the Ents will aid the Victorious Saved Sect in defeated the Yahood, and then usher in a era of peace & prosperity like the one that existed in 7th century Arabia. #delusions
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Re: Definitive proof that the Hijab is not only a purely socio-cultural construct

Post by Leftist »

Just when I thought it couldn't get more disgusting.............it does: The "most pious" men who ever lived fondling the breasts and thighs of slave-women in public:
( 1 ) حدثنا جرير عن منصور عن مجاهد قال : كنت مع ابن عمر أمشي في السوق فإذا نحن بناس من النخاسين قد اجتمعوا على جارية يقلبونها ، فلما رأوا ابن عمر تنحوا وقالوا : ابن عمر قد جاء ، فدنا منها ابن عمر فلمس شيئا من جسدها وقال : أين أصحاب هذه الجارية ، إنما هي سلعة
عبد الرزاق عن بن جريج عن عطاء قال قلت له الرجل يشتري الأمة أينظر إلى ساقيها وقد حاضت أو إلى بطنها قال نعم قال عطاء كان بن عمر يضع يده بين ثدييها وينظر إلى بطنها وينظر إلى ساقيها أو يأمر به
عبد الرزاق عن عبد الله بن عمر عن نافع عن بن عمر ومعمر عن أيوب عن نافع عن بن عمر كان إذا اراد أن يشتري جارية فراضاهم على ثمن وضع يده على عجزها وينظر إلى ساقيها وقبلها يعني بطنها
http://library.islamweb.net/newlibrary/ ... 9%E2%80%8F


Wow, just wow...literally speechless.

And some fools insist that everything is perfect in our religion and that we don't need a Reformation.
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Re: Definitive proof that the Hijab is not only a purely socio-cultural construct

Post by gegiroor »

Waar I don't accept none of your crap nor would I spend one minute of my time to read what you wrote there. Remember, we know you here. A gaal wannabe like you don't deserve our time. Do you dumbass think you can change Islam? You're beating the bushes weirdo.
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Re: Definitive proof that the Hijab is not only a purely socio-cultural construct

Post by Hyperactive »

geg, you are the one feeding him. this topic no one wanted to bother to read leave alone to reply.

people when they stop making sense, you stop to feed their obsession. anika adigan kula yabanahay.
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Re: Definitive proof that the Hijab is not only a purely socio-cultural construct

Post by gegiroor »

Ok Hyper, I will stop responding to this insecure, gaal wannabe, uncle tom punk. Advice is well-taken. Thanks bro Hyper :up:
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Re: Definitive proof that the Hijab is not only a purely socio-cultural construct

Post by gurey25 »

Guys leftist exposed himself earlier with is adoration of all things western and his quoting from a blog by an ex muslim.

but he has raised some critical points.
these are real hadiths, that are considered hadith,
the ones about slave girls not allowed to cover up, and omar beating them,
the ones about beating slaves that run away.
the one that says that the prophet married aisha when she was 9..

We all know that the quran is protected by allah himself and he has said so clearly,
but the hadiths have human hands all over it, and are subject to political considerations.
and all the major ones, and all of them were compiled during the reign of the oppressive bani cabbas khalifas.
Who are famous for imposing their view of caqeeda, let alone hadiths on the people by force.

Navigating the hadiths is a complex job , left to people with learning.

You can see the attitude of the learned people to hadiths, like imaam Malik,
who started off with nearly 10,000 hadiths in his muwatta, but over 40 years of revising his book every year,
reduce it to 3000~ hadiths, and the final version finished before he died had just over 1000 hadiths.
this is the oldest compilations of hadiths, and the muwatta is not a collection of hadiths but a guide to the fiqh, and has rulings and precedents .
Imam Malik is unique for placing the practice of ahl al madina to be a higher source of law, than even the most authentic hadith.

Todays dogmatic view , and literalism will cause us problems like answering the questions brought up
by leftist.
Its only a problem if you are a literalist.
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Re: Definitive proof that the Hijab is not only a purely socio-cultural construct

Post by Siciid85 »

Nacatullah Calayk. Fidno wade
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Re: Definitive proof that the Hijab is not only a purely socio-cultural construct

Post by Siciid85 »

gurey25 wrote:Guys leftist exposed himself earlier with is adoration of all things western and his quoting from a blog by an ex muslim.

but he has raised some critical points.
these are real hadiths, that are considered hadith,
the ones about slave girls not allowed to cover up, and omar beating them,
the ones about beating slaves that run away.
the one that says that the prophet married aisha when she was 9..

We all know that the quran is protected by allah himself and he has said so clearly,
but the hadiths have human hands all over it, and are subject to political considerations.
and all the major ones, and all of them were compiled during the reign of the oppressive bani cabbas khalifas.
Who are famous for imposing their view of caqeeda, let alone hadiths on the people by force.

Navigating the hadiths is a complex job , left to people with learning.

You can see the attitude of the learned people to hadiths, like imaam Malik,
who started off with nearly 10,000 hadiths in his muwatta, but over 40 years of revising his book every year,
reduce it to 3000~ hadiths, and the final version finished before he died had just over 1000 hadiths.
this is the oldest compilations of hadiths, and the muwatta is not a collection of hadiths but a guide to the fiqh, and has rulings and precedents .
Imam Malik is unique for placing the practice of ahl al madina to be a higher source of law, than even the most authentic hadith.

Todays dogmatic view , and literalism will cause us problems like answering the questions brought up
by leftist.
Its only a problem if you are a literalist.
:up:
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