The Reformation of Islam: A Clarion Call to Moral Clarity

[Leftist]

People with convictions and who more educated in what they believe in are hard to dissuade. A more advanced being in terms of power and prestige, who knows what he is doing and who lived far longer than any human being struggles daily with their stubbornness(muslims) and persistence. That dude is Ibliis who has soldiers fanning out everyday to just do what Twist and You Xildiid are amateur at doing

WiredForGood,

Ibliis and his soldiers? Interesting way to strip/deny human beings their innate free will and self-agency.

But let's see if you're honest enough to give "Ibliis and his soldiers" credit for all the horrors committed by "pious believers" in the name of Islam.

Were Ibliis and his soldiers responsible for ' evilly whispering'(waswasa, in arabic) in the ears of the Pious Believers when they decided to execute en masse 600 to 700 so-called POWs(so-called, because many were non-involved civilians, and even mere boys) and sell the girls and women into sordid slavery? Of what do I speak? So sad, and oh so telling that you know little or nothing of the Massacre of Bani Quraytha:

When will we Muslims take responsibility for certain brutal aspects of our history and for certain equally brutal theology that justifies it: "God doth command thee and thine to behead! chop hands! Stone to death! Tis the will of God in the Koran***"

(*** I wrote the exaggerated sentence above using medieval syntax & diction to show how idiotically ridiculous those of you who believe in chopping the hands of thief just because it says so in the Quran sound; you are no different than medieval priests burning heretics at stake because "God hath commanded it!". Wallahi, you are the exact same. Same stupid devotion to rigid religious dogma. Same justification of inexcusable brutality in the name of Heaven. Same slavish obsession with literalist interpretation of religious text. Same refusal to reason/think. In medieval Europe, burning human beings alive because they were deemed to be witches & heretics is justified in the name of God; just as chopping the hand of a poor soul who stole or stoning lovers(lovemaking is a sin, but slavery is halal? foh) is also justified in the name of Allah. The Reformation of Islam will throw all that "chop/stone/behead" bullshit where it belongs......in the dusty heap of bygone history)

No such thing as Ibliis, sxb. Ibliis/Devil/Satan is a allegorical metaphor for evil, that's all. He has zero bearing on human beings or life on Earth. But, for many people, like you, he's also a excellent excuse-generator, a convenient way to rationalize and justify the unjustifiable.

Q: Why did the Pious Companions who were praised in in the Quran a) launch brutal wars of imperial conquest, invading & occupying & enslaving peaceful lands b) fight & kill for power in a bloody civil war that would make the War of the Five Kings look easy.

A: They were not at fault; the Devious Devil Ibliis whispered in their ear and MADE THEM DO IT. Akhi, zis is za great fitnah! Beware za whispers of za devil!

Nonsense. We, as Muslims, as human beings, are fully responsible and accountable for everything, good or bad, that we do on this earth. And we will be held to account by our Creator on a Day none can escape.

And those that committed/oversaw/justified the mass-execution that was the Massacre of Bani Quraytha will be held accountable on the Day of Judgement by the Ultimate Judge. The title Prophet/Messenger does not make one immune from answering for the blood of innocents that were murdered due to collective guilt/collective punishment. That's the beauty of Islam: Nobody is above judgment & censure. Not even the Prophets of Allah, from Adam to Ibrahim to Musaa waa Ciisaa wa Ayooba wa Yoonus wa Haroon wa Daawooda wa Sulayman. Adam ate the forbidden fruit, Moses killed a man in a fit of anger, Joseph almost slept with his master's wife, a master who raised him to a position of respect from miserable slavery. So yeah, for those of you who are uninitiated in the Noble Science of Critical Thinking, you're gonna have to rethink that whole "prophets are perfect" dogma. It falls apart upon cursory examination.

We have to own up, and take full responsibility for the history of our faith and it's leading men: Messenger/Prophet(PBUH), Caliphs & Companions, Clerics & Scholars, Soldiers & Invaders, from our religion's inception in the 7th century, to this very day in 2017: the beautiful virtuous parts and the ugly evil parts. The amazingly progressive teachings/commandments and the 7th century Arabian desert brutality & violence. The famously futuristic freedoms & tolerance and the still rigidly regressive af(as fuck) rules & dictums. We must be, simultaneously, proud.....and ashamed. Teaching our children of the great virtues & sacrifice of the early Muslims, while at the same time, not absolving them from the wrong they have done and turning them into holy saints.

In short, what is required is constant Reformation: always evolving upwards towards the Light of Enlightenment; As Mankind discovers(ed) new Truths, for example, the Truth that slavery is/was an immoral, evil, abomination REGARDLESS of who justified it, allowed it, or practiced it; THEN, we, as Muslims, MUST eradicate any and all allowance of Slavery from our religion, REGARDLESS of what it may say in the religious texts. Purists and literalists will be enraged: "Blasphemy!!!, they will scream. Heresy!!!, they will cry. Prophets & Messengers of God owned slaves, how dare we declare it evil??!!" Hear me now, and hear me well, O ye sack of shuman: Slavery was heinous evil then, and it is still heinous evil now. Do with that uncomfortable Truth, what you wish. Run, hide, stick your head in the sands, it will not change the fact that slavery is and always was(yes, even back then) an immoral evil abomination where oppressed men and women were turned into animals, chattel to be bought, sold, and breeded(literally, concubinage)....like they were cattle.

Let them cry. Let them scream. For the Truth(of Virtue, of Justice, of Freedom), be it from a religious source, a secular source, or from divine inspiration(il'haam rabaaani), shall always prevail over bygone erroneous traditions/beliefs, regardless of how "holy" or "sacred" those traditions or beliefs may be.

You wanna own slaves because it's allowed in the Quran? How would you like it if someone owned your qaxooti-futo, and told you your daily prayers won't be accepted by Allah if you run away from your master(lol@the epic bullshit in the hadith books, including Sahih Bukhari & Sahih Muslim)?

You wanna own sex-slaves because Prophets/Messengers of God owned concubines? How would you like it if Hooyadaa ama Walaashaa la soo xaraysto oo habayn iyo maalin la kufsado? Because it's not sex, it's rape, you mother-faarax Again, do with that inconvenient, uncomfortable, cognitively painful TRUTH what you will.

'Cuz the Truth don't stop for nobody, sxb'yaal.

14 centuries of Slavery & Sex-Slaves will not disappear into the thin air of "Mommy, Mommy, they did it, too. They started it!!! They took my toys away. Moommmmyyy, they hurt my feewings"

Invasion & Occupation of Peaceful Lands(Andalus/Spain & South Asia) will not dissipate into the "fog of history"/"fog of war", "we kinda had to do it, you know, cuz they were gonna invade us first"

Chop/Stone/Behead will not be excused away by "harsh deterrent of Justice". How & why the FUCK weren't any rich/elite/powerful people given that "harsh deterrent of Justice" gift? Because hypocrisy & double standards. Because Organized Religion is no different, in it's corruption & hypocrisy, than any other human institution, except that it is given, fraudulently at that, the Official Seal of Approval of The Heavens.

We gotta face OUR Truth first, my peoples, the good, the bad, and the ugly. Only then can we move forward as Muslims into the 21st century and beyond.

Damn, I'm hungry. Could definitely go for saxan weyn Baasto-Bariis Federation right about now. Koob weyn oo Isbarmuuto aan ku dejiyo. Markaasi, the blessed 'herb, barakada caleenta cagaaraan. Markaas, qadar yar oo jimicsi, xog'xog'sho iyo isla bood'bood aniga iyo hablaha Tinder: bood'bood'kayagu wuxuu ku dhisan'yahay: consensual, respectful, ku tiirid Aaaalll Niiiiight Looooong......without having to stoop to slavery or concubinage. Hadee waa su'aal dhab ah: kee baa fiican? Tinder OR Maa Malakat Aymaanukum. Ditoore Yalaxow, waan ku salaamay ditoore ee fadlan su'aashaan igu caawi.


(/s
for sarcasm & satire intended to jog my people's brains and force them to confront painful cognitive dissonance. You can do it. Yes, you the reader. I believe in you. In all sincerity, I do. 'Cuz once upon a time, I was in your shoes, all self-induced outrage at anybody who criticized my faith......and here I am today, wholly comfortable merging, in perfect harmony, the Truth of Islam with the Truth of Liberal Secularism with the Truth of the Supremacy of Science & Reason. My relationship with Allah(SWT) is the strongest it has ever been today. You don't have to be an atheist or deist or whatever-ist. 'Godless' Atheists and Extremists/Purists are selling the same fake fallacy: that there is only ONE valid interpretation of Islam, and anybody who deviates from it is not a Muslim. Not true. Don't fall for it. Islam had a long & rich history of tolerance with markedly differing theological schools/approaches; none called the other a heretic or murtad(except in certain oppressive eras). Even atheists were free to preach their disbelief in songs and poems. Al-Mutanabi even declared himself an actual Prophet(hence, his name: He Who Claimed Prophethood). Freedom of speech is their Allah-bestowed right too. They are free to deny His Existence, just as we are free to assert His Compassionate Presence in our live(Ar'Raxmaan, Ar'Raxeem). And we ALL can and SHOULD live in peaceful coexistence, respecting each others rights and freedoms, even as we differ.

That is true Islam. If our societies are not ready for this fundamental common-sense: to treat others as you wish to be treated, with FULL EQUALITY TO ALL(including, Ahmediyah, Shia, Druze, Pastafarians, Athiests, etc) then that is a sweeping & collective failure of previous generations of Muslims who passively accepted theological stagnation & intellectual regression, across centuries of decay & decline.

This, then, is our burden: To educate our societies, first & foremost, so that the masses who may be suffering from poor health resort to the World Wide Web, WebMD, & Wikipedia(and check the cited sources) instead of a misguided Idiot Cleric who preaches the nonsense of "black magic" and "evil eye"; to remove the cobwebs of superstition(religious or otherwise) from the eyes and minds of our people; to teach, especially our young, the reason-based critical thinking skills they will require throughout their lives.

This will take time; not years, not decades, but many multiple decades, who knows: 5 decades? 9 decades? 17 decades? 23 decades? No matter: We have to start somewhere and pray that the Golden Age of Information we live in, with a smartphone in every hand, will accelerate the Supremacy of Science & the Scientific Method over the formidable forces of the fearsome Mahdi Warlord Taliye DIST(Dogma, Ignorance, Superstition, Tradition).

Here's to Tolerance on Earth & Equality to All Mankind,
Leftist the Reformer
September, 10th, 2017

[Leftist]

We will now examine what might be called our very own "Original Sin, a incident so shocking in it's brutality that some historians(admittedly modern revisionists) actually call into question whether or not it actually took place. I'm speaking about the collective punishment(just like the Nazis did) in the form of mass execution and mass enslavement of Bani Qurayda in Madeenah. Wikipedia(which is wholly sourced from Ibn Katheer, Tabari, & Ibn Ishaq; distinguished classical scholarship doesn't get better than them) will give us a short primer of what went down:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banu_Qura ... nu_Qurayza

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banu_Qurayza

Ibn Ishaq describes the killing of the Banu Qurayza men as follows:

Then they surrendered, and the apostle confined them in Medina in the quarter of d. al-Harith, a woman of B. al-Najjar. Then the apostle went out to the market of Medina (which is still its market today) and dug trenches in it. Then he sent for them and struck off their heads in those trenches as they were brought out to him in batches. Among them was the enemy of Allah Huyayy b. Akhtab and Ka`b b. Asad their chief. There were 600 or 700 in all, though some put the figure as high as 800 or 900. As they were being taken out in batches to the apostle they asked Ka`b what he thought would be done with them. He replied, "Will you never understand? Don't you see that the summoner never stops and those who are taken away do not return? By Allah it is death!" This went on until the apostle made an end of them. Huyayy was brought out wearing a flowered robe in which he had made holes about the size of the finger-tips in every part so that it should not be taken from him as spoil, with his hands bound to his neck by a rope. When he saw the apostle he said, "By God, I do not blame myself for opposing you, but he who forsakes God will be forsaken." Then he went to the men and said, "God's command is right. A book and a decree, and massacre have been written against the Sons of Israel." Then he sat down and his head was struck off.

In the 8th and early 9th century many Muslim jurists, such as Ash-Shafii, based their judgments and decrees supporting collective punishment for treachery on the accounts of the demise of the Qurayza, with which they were well acquainted

A few thoughts:

- Collective punishment is immoral, unIslamic, & fundamentally unjust. If I do something wrong, others should not be punished for my crime. The notion that if I do something wrong, my brother, father, and cousins will all be killed, and my wife and children will be sold into slavery: Can there be anything more fucked up than that? No. That's some evil, heinous, shit.

- If the rationale for Bani Qurayza to be collectively punished is that they were "engaging in treason", then why weren't Quraysh afforded the same brutal treatment? For close to 2 decades, the Qurayshi Meccans tortured Muslims to the point of death, blockaded them to the point of starvation, and engaged in wars of extermination where they wanted to literally exterminate the Muslim community.... but they get forgiveness and a kiss on the cheek? Yet Banu Qurayda, who did not even commit a single offense that resulted in harm, get Nazi-like mass executions and even worse than the Nazis, are sold into slavery? Even if it's proven that Bani Qurayda were "engaging in treason", why weren't just the ring-leaders punished? Instead you're going to exterminate an entire community(the same thing Quraysh was doing to you, but they get forgiven bekows #arabs-are-bae/jews-not-so-much##kthxbye) by mass executing 700 men the vast majority who were innocent, and worse, sell into sordid brutal slavery, hundreds if not thousands of women and children? That's some fucked up shit, by any historical standards.

The only way for us to make sense of heinous evil of that magnitude is to deny it every happened. Which means we will have to go against 14 centuries of scholarship and reject what is considered "established history".

Walid N. Arafat and Barakat Ahmad have disputed that the Banu Qurayza were killed on quite such a large scale.[15] Arafat disputes large-scale killings and argued that Ibn Ishaq gathered information from descendants of the Qurayza Jews, who embellished or manufactured the details of the incident. Arafat relates the testimony of Ibn Hajar, who denounced this and other accounts as "odd tales" and quoted Malik ibn Anas, a contemporary of Ibn Ishaq, whom he rejected as a "liar", an "impostor" and for seeking out the Jewish descendants for gathering information about Muhammad's campaign with their forefathers.[16] Ahmad argues that only some of the tribe were killed, while some of the fighters were merely enslaved.[17][90] Watt finds Arafat's arguments "not entirely convincing",[1] while Meir J. Kister has contradicted [clarification needed] the arguments of Arafat and Ahmad.[91]

On the basis of a historical-critical text analysis, pushed by the Revisionist School of Islamic Studies since the 1970s, the historicity of the event is doubted on the basis of new arguments. After e.g. Hans Jansen or Jonathan P. Berkey, also Fred Donner became known to doubt the historicity of the event.[92]

Assuming that the massacre of Banu Qurayda is factual and took place as Ibn Katheer, Tabari, Ibn Ishaq, & Ibn Asaakir said it did(ie, mass execution + mass slavery = worse than Nazis/ Aso, Qurayshi pagans who are hell-bent on genocide get forgiveness and a kiss on the cheek, because Ay-rab-are-bae; but dem jooos, gotta teach'em a lesson, amirite /s)

I wonder who here would support that

Gurey25: do you support what purportedly happened to Banu Qurayda
Shirib: do you support what purportedly happened to Banu Qurayda
Fah1223: do you support what purportedly happened to Banu Qurayda
Cherine: do you support what purportedly happened to Banu Qurayda

https://www.somalinet.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=380024

[gurey25]

Salam Leftist,

I no longer struggle with these issues because i do not consider the hadith compilations as the word of prophet fully, all the people who compiled it were under strong political pressure and even patronage from unsavoury and power individuals.
Its like Saddam hussien gathering religous scholars and students of the hadith and funding them,
it would be quite unusual if they didnt sing his tune.

The Quran is protected by allah, he says so several times clearly, but the hadith is not,
and we all know man is fallible.
The Quran is al furqan the criterion and it should be the filter that we should run everything through,
if it conflicts with the spirit of the quran, then it is of no worth and should be discarded immediately no matter how "saxiix" it is.

This thinking is not new or modern, its always been common among ulema,we are experiencing a period of extreme dogmatism and intellectual disability .

So yes i agree with the spirit of your message, but your delivery is the problem.
You seem enamored with our gaalo brothers and express deep admiration, "critical thinking" sounds cool but it is also flawed and cannot be used with religous texts.
Our gaalo brothers are however worthy of admiration as they are still even today, morally superior to us,
they are more just. Their institutions more advanced even though they are facing moral decay and decadence as well as economic and political disruption.
Though that is quite normal, its human and our societies will always be dynamic and have been throughout human history.

to be brief, yes compared to us despite their collonialism, and love of genocide and war
the institutions the people fought for are still up and running and are more advanced than anything in the muslim world, and they provide the people with rights .

basically they are just and allah is always on the side of justice,

So a bit of advice leftist , you are scaring away allot of people who would be receptive to your message
you need to package it better.

[Basra-]

How does one have a debate with one that dares defends ibliis.? I mean do we need to see the Scarlett letter on the forehead to believe this creature of Allah is possessed?

[TheGrumpyGeeljire]

Salam Leftist,

I no longer struggle with these issues because i do not consider the hadith compilations as the word of prophet fully, all the people who compiled it were under strong political pressure and even patronage from unsavoury and power individuals.
Its like Saddam hussien gathering religous scholars and students of the hadith and funding them,
it would be quite unusual if they didnt sing his tune.

The Quran is protected by allah, he says so several times clearly, but the hadith is not,
and we all know man is fallible.
The Quran is al furqan the criterion and it should be the filter that we should run everything through,
if it conflicts with the spirit of the quran, then it is of no worth and should be discarded immediately no matter how "saxiix" it is.

This thinking is not new or modern, its always been common among ulema,we are experiencing a period of extreme dogmatism and intellectual disability .

So yes i agree with the spirit of your message, but your delivery is the problem.
You seem enamored with our gaalo brothers and express deep admiration, "critical thinking" sounds cool but it is also flawed and cannot be used with religous texts.
Our gaalo brothers are however worthy of admiration as they are still even today, morally superior to us,
they are more just. Their institutions more advanced even though they are facing moral decay and decadence as well as economic and political disruption.
Though that is quite normal, its human and our societies will always be dynamic and have been throughout human history.

to be brief, yes compared to us despite their collonialism, and love of genocide and war
the institutions the people fought for are still up and running and are more advanced than anything in the muslim world, and they provide the people with rights .

basically they are just and allah is always on the side of justice,

So a bit of advice leftist , you are scaring away allot of people who would be receptive to your message
you need to package it better.

If Hadeeth cannot be trusted, how on earth are we meant to learn about the Sunnah of the Prophet (PBUH) and apply it in our daily lives as Muslims. The best example I have seen are the so called Salafis, yes they might be too strict and harsh, but to my ignorant mind, their teachings seem correct and sound, since most of them do not practice taqleed and blindly follow scholars.

[gurey25]

If Hadeeth cannot be trusted, how on earth are we meant to learn about the Sunnah of the Prophet (PBUH) and apply it in our daily lives as Muslims. The best example I have seen are the so called Salafis, yes they might be too strict and harsh, but to my ignorant mind, their teachings seem correct and sound, since most of them do not practice taqleed and blindly follow scholars.

I am not saying we should ignore axaadeeth, thats throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
The quran is above any hadeeth, even the most saxiix with the surest esnad.
As muslims we believe in the quran as the word of allah without question and it is the foundation of our religion, the compilation of hadeeth are a product of human hands.
One should not put your faith in the works of man, but think of them as useful tools.

Some might accuse me of being a Quranist or god forbid a "progressive", such lunacy comes froma complete rejection of hadeeth and tradition. This rejection leaves them without the capacity of understanding the quran, allowing themselves the ability to read what they want from the quran, creating a completely new religion. To be honest i see them a greater threat to islam than the salafists.
The salafists will suck the spirit out of the practice of islam, the joy and beauty while leaving us intellectually stunted, we will probably still remain muslims in a way, the others will lead to kufr.
Our religion is one of moderation, and of the sunna and jamacaa, tradition is vital.

You know my views on salafists, i see them as a cult, and its the modus operandum of all cults to tell their followers to ignore traditions and long held beliefs, taqlid is bad, there is no need for madhabs and other aqeedas/theology . forget over 1000 years of scholarship and tradition.
But you should definitely follow our scholars, taqlid is ok in this case.
Our new modern salafi scholars are much better informed than the ones from the past,
even if they studied under saxaaba and tabic al tabaceen, even if they lived in medina were the sunna of the rasuul was practiced as close to the time of the saxaaba as possible.

I believe i know who to follow thank you.

[Basra-]

U know that there is a website where Jews pretend to be "muslims"??? Well, I believe Wiredforgood is such a JEW!

[gurey25]

U know that there is a website where Jews pretend to be "muslims"??? Well, I believe Wiredforgood is such a JEW!

Fascinating can you post a link.

[BestPlaya]

Salam Leftist,

I no longer struggle with these issues because i do not consider the hadith compilations as the word of prophet fully, all the people who compiled it were under strong political pressure and even patronage from unsavoury and power individuals.
Its like Saddam hussien gathering religous scholars and students of the hadith and funding them,
it would be quite unusual if they didnt sing his tune.

The Quran is protected by allah, he says so several times clearly, but the hadith is not,
and we all know man is fallible.
The Quran is al furqan the criterion and it should be the filter that we should run everything through,
if it conflicts with the spirit of the quran, then it is of no worth and should be discarded immediately no matter how "saxiix" it is.

This thinking is not new or modern, its always been common among ulema,we are experiencing a period of extreme dogmatism and intellectual disability .

So yes i agree with the spirit of your message, but your delivery is the problem.
You seem enamored with our gaalo brothers and express deep admiration, "critical thinking" sounds cool but it is also flawed and cannot be used with religous texts.
Our gaalo brothers are however worthy of admiration as they are still even today, morally superior to us,
they are more just. Their institutions more advanced even though they are facing moral decay and decadence as well as economic and political disruption.
Though that is quite normal, its human and our societies will always be dynamic and have been throughout human history.

to be brief, yes compared to us despite their collonialism, and love of genocide and war
the institutions the people fought for are still up and running and are more advanced than anything in the muslim world, and they provide the people with rights .

basically they are just and allah is always on the side of justice,

So a bit of advice leftist , you are scaring away allot of people who would be receptive to your message
you need to package it better.

If Hadeeth cannot be trusted, how on earth are we meant to learn about the Sunnah of the Prophet (PBUH) and apply it in our daily lives as Muslims. The best example I have seen are the So called Salafis, yes they might be too strict and harsh, but to my ignorant mind, their teachings seem correct and sound, since most of them do not practice taqleed and blindly follow scholars.

Salafiyah is the right path.May Allah bestow you Knowledge and wisdom.Ameen.Senior Gurey really needs to study the science of Hadiith