Jews Against Zionism

[avowedly-agnostic]

Many in the Global Muslim community harbour deep-seated ill feelings toward Jews. Muslims feel that their sentiments of anti-semitism and animosity toward the Jewish community are rightly justified because of the decade’s long aggression of the Zionist state of Israel against the Palestinian people whom they perceive as their brethren in Islam.

The hatred of Jews within the Global Muslim community is manifest in the tirades of anti-Semitism that is often expressed in Mosques, cafes, and other places where Muslims congregate; even sometimes on SomaliNet.

What I wish to propose is that Muslims realise that it's not Jews collectively that are to blame for the plight of the Palestinians, but rather Zionists. Now one may ask what the difference between Jews and Zionism is; after all, aren't Zionists themselves Jewish?

While it may be true that Zionists are Jews, it's incorrect to believe that all Jews are Zionists. Zionism is the idealogical movement which helped establish the state of Israel, but many Jews were against the establishment of a Jewish state on Palestinian soil (and still are) because they believed (and continue to believe) that a Jewish state cannot be created until the advent of the Messiah . Until such time they believe, Jews must remain living in exile.

They further believe that the establishment of the state of Israel goes contrary to the prophecy of the Bible in which the Messiah is the precondition to the creation of any Jewish state.

To conclude, Jews are not blameworthy or any way responsible for the suffering and oppression of the Palestinian people. In fact they often sympathise with the plight of the Palestinians, and unreservedly condemn the occupation of their land by the Zionist state.

One such organisation is Neturei Karta- a Jewish group based in New York, London, and other major cities in the world (See below).

http://www.nkusa.org/

[biko]

"The hatred of Jews within the Global Muslim community is manifest in the tirades of anti-Semitism that is often expressed in Mosques, cafes, and other places where Muslims congregate; even sometimes on SomaliNet".




LOOOL@ even on somalinet...

never knew somalinet had such power over global influence of anti-semitism.

[avowedly-agnostic]

[quote] never knew somalinet had such power over global influence of anti-semitism. [/quote]

It doesn't matter so much what influence anti-Semitic comments expressed on Somalinat has on people. The point is that anti-Semitism exists on this forum.

And it's derived from a false perception that says anti-Semitism is justifiable and perfectly okay because of the actions of Zionists, when as I've illustrated above, it's not justified, nor is it okay.

[avowedly-agnostic]

I thought I'd also add the following comments that I found whilst perusing through Neturei karta's website:

"We want to tell the world, especially our Arab and Muslim neighbours, that there is no hatred or animosity between Jew and Arab. We wish to live together as friends and neighbours as we have done mostly over hundreds even thousands of years in all the Arab countries. It was only the advent of the Zionists and Zionism which upset this age old relationship.

We wish to declare once again that the only solution to the impasse in Palestine is the total peaceful dismantling of the Zionist State.

We consider the Palestinians as the people with the right to govern in Palestine. The Zionist State known as “Israel” is a regime that has no right to exist. Its continuing existence is the underlying cause of the strife in Palestine.

We pray for a solution to the terrible and tragic impasse that exists. Hopefully based on results brought about by moral, political and economic pressures imposed by the nations of the world.

We pray for an end to bloodshed and an end to the suffering of all innocent people - Jew and non-Jew alike - worldwide.

We are waiting for the annulment of Zionism and the dismantling of the Zionist regime, which will bring about an end to the suffering of the Palestinian people. We would welcome the opportunity to dwell in peace in the holy land under a rule which is entirely in accordance with the wishes and aspirations of the Palestinian People. "

http://www.nkusa.org/index.cfm

[Basra-]

avowedly-agnostic

Thank you for educating us. We are so obliged. (puke sign)

[Gacalisa]

wow. you do forget that all the other religions are anti-semetic, especially christianity, lets not forget the holocaust, and the hatred that came upon the Jews in Europe, especially Russia. and tell me what religion is dominate in Europe.

Have you seen Muslims Murder and massacer Millions of Jews, no.

Also dont think that Bush is such a Jew lover for giving "support" to Israel.

During the holocaust, when the Jews were fleeing, and went to Surrrounding countries, and the the European countries decline them, why didnt the US accept them, if they christians love Jews so much.


Every other religion is Anti-semetic, and Muslims are the only onces that have been good to them. WE have never harmed them in any way, adn the Ottomen Empire fully accepted them, when Christians leaders and rulers hesitated them. History shows our sympathy towards the Jews, but because they new we were the only sympathic civilization, they new they could get "home" in palestine.

THink about if they tried to get any land for the Europe or any where else who would sopport them.

because the rest of the world are so ant-Islam, they new they could be helped.

[SomaliLight]

[quotem =Avowdly]To conclude, Jews are not blameworthy or any way responsible for the suffering and oppression of the Palestinian people. In fact they often sympathise with the plight of the Palestinians, and unreservedly condemn the occupation of their land by the Zionist state. [/quote]


Avowdly, very nice piece of work you have put together here. However, i must say I am not too convinced with your "quruxiin" of the Jewish People. I believe the Zionist state has a large following by the way of votes in elections. Isrealis are very much for ruthless state leaders perserving their religious claim to land as well as political interests, just as Palestians are very much proud of their Hisbullah brothers blowing up school buses and cafes. Most Jews are not sympathetic to Palestians, If the isreali State says tomorrow they will withdraw from the West bank, Surely this leader would not last overnight. Remember, even the withdrawal from the insignifcant Gaza strip was compelling, and tough for Sharon to execute because those Jews felt an unfettered claim to the land.

The middleEast is a dog eat dog world. the Jews In Isreal want their government to protect their rights to the West bank, and thats why they keep giving their votes to the right-winged leaders. The Jews hold a similar religion to Palestians which they believe that they have a God given right to the land. That is the problem with these religious people, God is always a tool to exclude others. BUT the reality is that land, any sort of land, is not given by God, but it is taken by the barrel of the gun.

[avowedly-agnostic]

[quote=Gacalisa] wow. you do forget that all the other religions are anti-semetic, especially christianity, lets not forget the holocaust, and the hatred that came upon the Jews in Europe, especially Russia. and tell me what religion is dominate in Europe. [/quote]

I didn't mean to imply that Muslims are the only ones guilty of anti-Semitism. I'm fully aware that followers of other religions (most notably those of the Christian faith) have in the past been anti-Semitic. Nor do I overlook the events of the Jewish holocaust.

Note I don't argue that Islam is anti-Semitic (though one could certainly make a case arguing such) but rather many Muslims following the subsequent establishment of Israel have become anti-Semitic.

My contention is that Muslims had no quarrel with Jews, nor did they harbour anti-Jewish or anti-Semitic sentiments until recently. The argument I make is that Muslims as well as non-Muslims are both enraged and condemn unreservedly the occupation of Palestine by the Zionist state of Israel. That does not mean to say however that Muslims should hate Jews, or that anti-Semitism in the light of the on going occupation of Palestine is justified.

The struggle and resistence of the Palestinians isn't one against Judiasm, and Jews, but rather one against Zionism, and Zionists.

[avowedly-agnostic]

[/quote= sexy SomaliLight] the Jews In Isreal want their government to protect their rights to the West bank, and thats why they keep giving their votes to the right-winged leaders. [quote]

This is a misconception. It is incorrect to presume that Jews in their entirety support the occupation of the West bank and East Jerusalem.
The aim of this whole thread has been to debunk that myth. Not all Jews support the actions of the Israeli state.

There are many Jews (both within and out side of Israel) who are fiercely opposed to what its government is doing in Palestine, and who demand the immediate withdrawal of Israeli troops from the occupied territories. There are some Jews such as those of Neturei Karta that go even further than withdrawal of troops; they demand not only the withdrawal of troops from Palestine, but also the dismantlement of the Zionist state of Israel.

I don't pretend that all Jews are peace loving, love thy-neighbor type of hippies. But I intend to make Muslims realise that not all Jews are supportive of Israel. My intention is to clarify the popular misconception that says all Jews are the enemies of Islam and must therefore be despised. I wish to make people aware that there are some Jews that are supportive of the rights of the Palestinian people to their land.

Finally, I wish to conclude by stating that Zionism doesn't equate with Judaism. It's true that the Bible says that Jews will establish a Jewish homeland in the Holy land (Jerusalem), but Orthodox Jews ( that are true to the Torah) believe that only with the advent of the Messiah can that happen. So in essence Zionists as Orthodox Jews tell you are contradicting the teachings of the Torah.

One can be anti-Zionist (as I am, and as are many Orthodox Jews) without being anti-Semitic. In fact many Jews are anti-Zionist. The existence of international anti-Zionist Jewish organizations such as Neturei Karta is sufficient evidence that Judaism and Zionism are diametrically opposed opposites. (See below).

http://www.nkusa.org/

[Unclebin]

[quote][/quote= sexy SomaliLight][/quote]

SAD Attempt of appearing as a mack I see....


How come your overall punctuation, vocubalary, your stringing together of the english vernaculary has dropped off considerably? Where you try show-off? Where you trying to appear as somebody else? I know who you really are! I will expose you if you don't stop...........

[Gacalisa]

[quote-avokedly-agnostic] "many Muslims following the subsequent establishment of Israel have become anti-Semitic".


Tell me if the jews would have some decided to locate their new "nation" somwhere in the US, Europe, and even Somalia, dont you think those people would have been anti-semetic.

[avowedly-agnostic]

[quote= Gacalisa] Tell me if the jews would have some decided to locate their new "nation" somwhere in the US, Europe, and even Somalia, dont you think those people would have been anti-semetic. [/quote]

Such people may indeed become anti-Semitic, that doesn't however justify their anti-Semitism. Anti-Semitism is a hatred of Jews in their entirety. What I'm trying to explain is that Zionism is not based on any teachings of Judaism, but rather of nationalism, and military prowess. It would be more wise (and indeed more correct) to be anti-Zionist than it would be to be anti-Semitic.

UncleBin, First and foremost I don't understand American terminology, so I've no idea what a "mack" is. As for the rest of your post, I couldn't quite make out what you were blabbering on about. Something about having a small penis was it?

[Unclebin]

A mack is english terminology. Or has your qaxooti self been deluded into thinking you are now white?

Anyhow mack= mac daddy= A guy who thinks he can get girls. You obviously are faking this whole "I am an intellectual, I only deal with those in my sphere of excellence" type bullshit. Come out of your shell dude.

[avowedly-agnostic]

In all honesty Avowedly wasn't familiar with the meaning of "mack" until you kindly cleared it for him. I presumed it was American terminology because presumably most of the forumers are North American- Somalis. It's got naught to do with intellectual superiority, though Avowedly evidently intimidates you hence your constant barrage of ad hominem.

In any case, I wish you would cease the demeaning insults, and engage the subject at hand.

P.S. For your benefit, I am a "mack".

[dhuusa_deer]

[quote="Gacalisa"][quote-avokedly-agnostic] "many Muslims following the subsequent establishment of Israel have become anti-Semitic".


Tell me if the jews would have some decided to locate their new "nation" somwhere in the US, Europe, and even Somalia, dont you think those people would have been anti-semetic.[/quote]


I don't follow the last passage about anti-semetism but let me touch on the question you asked. A valid and fair question. You ask: why didn't the jews settle in other lands instead of Historical Palastine? The answer varies slightly depending on who you ask but the general consus was and still is: palastine was ancestorial homeland of the jews, the land where the last jewish government held sway. So obviously for historical, cultural, religious and emotional reasons opting to settle in Palastine was understandable.

Note as well that the Jews didn't invade Palastine, they entered through the front door after knocking and gaining permission to enter. Except the top dogs back then weren't the arabs (over Palastine), it was the Brits. Jews asked for permission to settle from the Brits in Palastine and the Brits assented. Are the jews blameable in this light, peacefully and legally settling in Palastine? Absolutely not! Was it fair that the destiny of Palastinians was decided by foreigners: the Brits? Of course not but that is how shit went down in those days... jews paid for the land they eventually settled, not all of it but large chunks of it. They farmed lands the arabs didn't, thrived as a ppl out of their own sheer industry and ingenuity. Blame them for what occured AFTER Isreal was created like expelling some palastians and not letting them back in after the cessation of hostilities. But no honest person can fault them for doing what ANY group of ppl in their shoe would have done, even more so faced with the limited and equally undesired options facing them.

Facts are facts and they show Palastinian's supposedly worst enemy -- the jews -- treated them better than their supposedly best friends -- their own leaders. They have been cruelly dealt with double blow by history: of bad leadership and history shaped by outsiders. What they today need though -- and urgently -- more than sympathy and support of others is competent leadership that knows when to cut losses, lick own wounds and pull its ppl by the bootstraps. It needs leadership that knows HOW and WHEN to make comprises, to give a little to gain more in the future. Leadership with the foresight, political survival instincts and savvy able to survive and stay level headed in the Turkish bizaar that is M. East politics... one attuned to the yearnings and disgruntles of those they're leading as well as keeping one ear tuned in to the outside world. Admittedly, it takes 2 to tango. Reaching peacefull resolution takes two willing sides, the Isrealis have their own house cleaning to do.