Do you prefer Somalia to become Theocratic or democratic.

[Mowhawk]

If the religious forces in Somalia win their battle with the warlords, would they hold power and become dictators, or will they establish and guide Somalia to democracy. Do you belive that democracy is compatible with Islam?

"Those who argue against the compatibility of Islam and democracy usually begin by saying that a democracy gives sovereignty or power of rule to the people, while Islam gives sovereignty or power of rule to God, which would not allow for a “government by the people.” In other words, these skeptics believe that the opposite of democracy in relation to a religious political system must be theocracy, meaning the rule of God on earth by a religious authority or class. However, this argument presupposes that there is a single religious authority or class within the Islamic tradition that has special access to God’s will and therefore has the right and power to impose divine will on the land. This is where the argument fails in relation to Islam, because the Islamic tradition, at least in the majority Sunni teaching, does not recognize a pope-like figure, nor does it preach the establishment of a religious class that has special access to divine will."

"In fact, to the contrary, it can be argued that the Qur’an warns against the establishment of a religious class."

http://www.islamonline.net/English/intr ... le04.shtml

Discuss?

[salafi_student]

No 1

[Mowhawk]

[quote="salafi_student"]No 1[/quote]

salafi

What is "No 1"? Do you mean number one, theocratic? Care to eleborate why?

[Demure]

Definately not Theocratic. The idea of few select making decisions and imposing their will on the majority does not appeal to me, and eventually it's bound to fail anyway. Now practically speaking, Democracy and Clan structure? Not sure how these two would fit..

[Gedo_Boy]

[quote="Demure"] The idea of few select making decisions and imposing their will on the majority does not appeal to me[/quote]


isn't that what's happening now?

only now, they have no ethical or moral reservations.

[DamallaXagare]

I would prefer rule by the people. The same reason that leaders of democratically elected countries abuse the democratic system of their country applies to leaders of theocratic rule, if their potentiality to this end materializes. They are both prone to self-interest and irratational actions due to the fallibility of human nature. The Caliphs of Prophet's era were chosen ones as you know they were rewarded with Janna while still alive.


The problem is then the dream to return the Islamic rule under this banner. Saudi Arabia is a good example how the Sharia law is abused, amended and abridged to the advantage of the royal family, so it is like the Islamic law layed down in the Kor'an ad Hadith was made to apply only to the poor people and the general masses. I believe Theocratic rule does not allow room for a social and economic reform , even if the Islamic rule is interprated to that aspect, which was already permitted.


visit this link and see, Xsan Turaabi has issued a Fatwa that converts someone from his own religion after having said some trivial things. Other scholars of Islam issued another Fatwa , attacking Xuseen Turaabi and calling him already an Infidel.


http://www.halgan.net/view_article.php?articleid=1881

[Mowhawk]

DamallaXagare

Nice input, and let us leave the Turabi controversary for another post. Already, it has been dicussed in a messy fashion.

Demure

In my view, and based on the above idealistic opinion, the role of the Shiekhs are more important than the politicians, because their role will be at the grass roots level to prepare the public for such a transition. Their first task is to fight tribalism, and educate the public the advantages of abandoning it, offcourse within the Islamic Doctrine. Also, they should play an important role in selecting the candidates and guiding them. Otherwise, the old guard will be using financial, or tribal incentives to lure the vote of the public.

[same]

Democratic
(We don't have something better)

[The rebel]

[quote]Do you belive that democracy is compatible with Islam? [/quote]

I believe democracy compatible with Islam, the Shari’a, for the most part, is not explicitly dictated by God. Nevertheless, Shari’a depends on the interpretive of the human. We need to differ between Shari’a and Fiqh. Shari'a is divine ideal and unchangeable but Fiqh is human attempt to understand and apply the ideal. This is what is happening in Saudi Arabia. There is no universal way Muslims agreed to run state. Any one thinks our Islamic history was perfect, just fooling themselves.

I would go with democracy, because i know how some people use and abuse Islam to their end. I'm agains the selective shari'a on only poor.

[Lacageylacag]

First of All, who are the disbelievers??
The Quran defines them clearly.

"And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed----then it is those who are the disbelievers." (Al-maidah 5:44))

"Legislation is not but for Allah"
((Surah yusuf 12:40))


Democracy is NOT compatible with Islam. Those who submit to the will of Allah are muslims.
Those who submit to the will of the people(democracy) in disobidience to Allah and his prophet(peace be upon him) are kufar.
Many of you have made statements of kufr in ignorance and carelessness in this discussion.
May Allah(subhana wa taala) forgive us all.

Please read the book:
"Relieving the people of understanding from the corruptions, harms and burdens of democratic election" by Sheikh Aboo Abdisalaam Ar-Raymee.

He gives plenty of evidence from Quran and sunnah that democracy is haram.



http://www.salafimanhaj.com/pdf/RELIEVI ... ANDING.pdf

[COOL-MAN]

I couldn't agree more lacag. may Allah reward you.



i will chose islamic sharia over democracy anyday.

quote rebel

"Any one thinks our Islamic history was perfect, just fooling themselves"

i belive our islamic histroy was perfect untill the likes of you joined the fray to mislead the muslims into believing it's ok to follow the shaytaans path.

[The rebel]

It's this attitude of likes of you that has led to the splintering of muslims into a thousands sects, each with a slightly different understanding, each thinking it is right and all the others wrong. Indeed God show us the right path.

[San_dheer]

Democratic Somalia. My main reasons;

1. Somalis are not 100% Muslims no matter what you all think.
2. People often use religion to further their own agendas.
3. I want to practice my religion in peace, not to be told what I can or can’t do and so on.

[Mowhawk]

Brothers

Let us not rip each other apart and respectfully exchange our opinions without resorting to name-calling and finger pointing. Lacageey, thanks for presenting the Salafi view, it is interesting and has a meritious argument. Coolman bro thanks too, for expressing similar views and supporting Lacageey's viewpoint.

Rebel

Thanks bro, and you too, let us at least exihibit that we can discuss issues without tresspassing on each other. You are right that Sharia Law differs from country to country, and is not in uniformity. However, you raised an important issue regarding the difference between Shar'ia and Fiqh, and can you please eleborate on it? What percentage of Islamic Law is divine and what percentage is Fiqh derived? Are you suggesting Ijtihaad?

Sandheer

Thanks for your contribution.

In my view, I believe that we can both have deomocracy and shariah law, and not only the criminal justice component (hudud laws). This has to be decided in unison by the leadership of all sects in Somalia. Incase of failure under the leadership of the Sheikhs, it may be possible that the lay people may intrepret as a weakness of Islam, and lose interest in Sharia' Law. First step should be like the Iranian model of a Supreme Council along with an elected parliamentary system and president.

[SoMaLiSiZz]

Asalam calaikom warxmatullah wbaraktuh

Lacageylacag Barak Allahu feek