Why Islam is flawed

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

Here is one of many examples. This author cites a point of how and when Islam justifies violence. This is a problem within Islam, but not the only one:

http://answering-islam.org.uk/Authors/A ... _poets.htm

Another major problem is that when Mohammed ruled, he failed to delineate how a country was to be govern - how the leaders were to be chosen. That's because he was alive during the era of the strongman, and simply assumed a dictator would seize control by force. To be legitimate, that dictator merely had to enforce Shari'a, and he was good to go. The fact that Mohammed failed to address the mechanism of governance is a gaping hole in Islam. That he did not address it is not surprising, since Mohammed maintained all the power of society centralized under his control, claiming divine inspiration for governmental edict. What he failed to do is address the post Mohammed governmental era.

[Modern-poli]

Did i get raped? it's fucked up but i keep worrying. like there's numerous times where i was passed out from drinking where i could have got raped. additionally i may have got raped and just forgot the whole thing because it was so traumatic. how can i confirm that i didn't get raped? if i was raped does it make me gay?

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

This would be a non-sequitor.

Modern you are a guy right? Why is it that Somali guys are always making homosexual references. You boys just ain't right.

[COSTA]

There are more gays in San Fransisco than in all of Africa

Your leaders are gay Mark Foley

Your relgios leaders are gay Rev. Ted Haggard


and ofcourse you are one of them

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

Costa
I have also noticed that when observers make observations about Islam that Somalis don't like, instead of arguing their position, they will attack the person they disagree with.

[mizz_chief]

Mad Mac

you must understand that time is changing and the way we do things also has to chnage, back in the Pophets tmes pbuh things were done differently, however now we live in an crazy time, you cant compare the time of the prohpet to now, in that artice it said

""Upon reading the original source documents of Islam—the Quran, hadith, biographies, and histories—one is struck by the casual and matter-of-fact way that Muhammad and his Muslims traffic in violence and bloodshed.""""



How can you say the original source- Quraan says our prophet advocated violence? Have you ever read the Quraan in English and made your own judgement????

I agree, people shouldnt be killed for their views even though its damaging, we should stand up and reply back to them, if not do exactly what they are doing to the muslims, defermate their religion, critisice their ways of live and put our arguments forth..

However, unlike the Jews, we do not have access to the Media, so we are not only portrayd as terrorist violent people BUT we cant voice back because we dont not have the means to do so.... So sadly sometimes actions speaks louder than words and these guys do more worng than right...

Porphet Mohamed PBUH, never was violent, but sick people who always have something against ISLAM will always want to stir religious hatred by not critisicing the muslim peope who have have done wrong but attack the Prophet who always did right.....

Mad Mac, today if I say u should be killed for dissing Islam on somalinet, then I am in the wrng because I cant argue back my point well, but if you attack someone else the likes of our Prophet PBUH, who has NO wrong-doings, then clearly not ONLY are you in the wrong, but you are looking for trouble by stirring up trouble that didnt even exist...

There is NO point in critiscing chriastianity because the people who live in the West are predominently SECUALR, so dissing their religion wouldnt do much, but its just double standards, times are changing and we should all be working together...

In a nut-shell...FOR us to accept your arguments, show evidence and NOT JUST CHEAP TALK!!!!!!

[musika man]

mad
thought you were a somali. not a problem if you are or not, but admit prophet mohamed made a revolution for the best in his time and intorduced a powerfull religion that makes sense 2 a third of humanity today. an exceptional being who served allah well. muslims in 2006 are shit but not prophets like our noble prophet.

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

Did you look at the paragragh I wrote. Try and refute it. You can't, because it's grounded in fact.

Of course I've read the Qur'an. Have you? Did you know that Mohammed kept slave girls and had sex with them? This isn't smear campaign, it is a fact, acknowledge by all Muslim scholars. Did you know that Mohammed had sex with a 12 year old girl (she might have been younger, but 12 at the oldest)??? Did you know that Mohammed killed the leader of the Jewish community in Medina and took his wife as a slave (and yes, had sex with her, reportedly the night he killed her husband - although that is up for debate)????

Then, of course, there is the issue I cited, which is one of governance and selection for governance. You didn't even address that.

Access to the media? Muslims have NEVER allowed any kind of discourse on Islam that they consider disrespectful. Anyone questioning Mohammed's moral character has always been subject to attack.

[mizz_chief]

how do u know this?

u say a fact known by al scholars?... whatever... you are chatting absolute shit now...

Reading the Quraan and UNDERSTANDING the essences of it are 2 different things and I dont expect a islam-hater like yourself to give us un-baised biew point...

SO come on, like i said, no cheap talk, name me names, which top scholars agree with u?....

NAMES PLS....

If non-scholars like ayaan hersi or Rushdie are on death watch, I dont think ANY ISLAMIC SCHOLAR would be soooo stupid to say what U just said OPENLY....

You really are here to waste time and I was waiting for a proper DEBATE to take place...

12 year old this and that.. please bring more constructive arguments to the table and not foul crap....

[mizz_chief]

Another major problem is that when Mohammed ruled, he failed to delineate how a country was to be govern - how the leaders were to be chosen. That's because he was alive during the era of the strongman, and simply assumed a dictator would seize control by force. To be legitimate, that dictator merely had to enforce Shari'a, and he was good to go. The fact that Mohammed failed to address the mechanism of governance is a gaping hole in Islam. That he did not address it is not surprising, since Mohammed maintained all the power of society centralized under his control, claiming divine inspiration for governmental edict. What he failed to do is address the post Mohammed governmental era.[/quote





You can only change something with TIME.. if you wasnt alive to see how people goven their countries because such system didnt exist then U CANT BLAME THAT PERSON FOR THAT...it was AFTER THEIR TIME....

SIMPLE AS THAT.... damn why u pin point silly things that u very well know is pointless argument...

Say today u was in charge of AMERICA.. 2000 years later, is it fair to say MAD MAC failed because he didntthink of this during his time...NO IT ISNT. because as time flies things change, people change we do things differently and naturally that is the way of life..

U cant hold the Prophet for other people's wrong-doings... you reall amaze me and not in a psotive way

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

How old was Aisha when Mohammed married her? How old when they had their first intercourse?

This is from Islamic sources:

IT is recorded that the Prophet said, 'I have not taken any wife, nor given away a daughter to any one, without Gabriel having first brought me an order from my Lord; and I only acted according to that order." 1 The biographers record that his Excellency had twelve married wives with whom he consummated marriage. They are all agreed respecting eleven of them; but in regard to the twelfth, their opinion differs as to whether she was a married wife or a slave concubine. It subsequntly goes on to detail all twelve, but we needn't go into that unless you would like to.

That Prophet had also Female Slaves. The first of these was Mary Bint Simeon, a Copt, whom the King of Alexandria sent to him for a present. She was a beautiful, fair lady, and, having embraced Islam, the Prophet kept her for concubinage. He fondly loved her, and his son Ibrahim was by her. She died, A.H. 16, during. Omar's Califate.

The second is Raihana Bint Zeid, one of the captives of the Beni Nadhir, a Jewish tribe. The Prophet selected her for himself from amongst the other captives. He left her the choice between her own religion and Islam, and she chose the latter. He possessed her by the right of his right hand (i.e. by conquest). According to another account, adopted by Wakidi, he liberated and married her in Ramadan, A.H. 6.

The third was a beautiful female slave falling to his share of the war-booty.

The fourth was a slave whom Zeinab Bint Jahsh gave him for a present.

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

Mizz
We aren't talking about Mohammed only here, we are talking about Islam.

"if you wasnt alive to see how people goven their countries because such system didnt exist then U CANT BLAME THAT PERSON FOR THAT...it was AFTER THEIR TIME....

SIMPLE AS THAT.... damn why u pin point silly things that u very well know is pointless argument... "

So you are saying that God couldn't see the future and tell Mohammed how people are suppose to choose their leaders and govern themselves???? That's what you're saying here. Mohammed spells out an intricate number of laws and makes sweeping proclamations, but on the matter of selecting governance and how that governance is suppose to work he says almost nothing. Don't you find that strange?

[mizz_chief]

god doesnt spoon feed you... how will you learn from your mistakes or learn anything if you get everything on a plate for you.. what is the point of living if we told to do things in a particular manner...

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

Shari'a spoon feeds you. It tells you everything, even how to wipe your a$$. Now consider that, in each detail Shari'a breaks down law and order, but on the issue of governance, narry a peep.

How it is that you can't see the flaw in that, I don't know. Well actually I do know. Muslims are brainwashed at childhood. They are brought up to believe that certain things are unimpeachable. That they are beyond questioning. Questioning the legitimacy of Islam is totally and completely unacceptable in Islamic society. At best you would be ostracized, at worst killed.

Here's another problem written by a western scholar of Islam:

In order for Western peoples to understand Islam, they have to realize that Islam is more than a spiritual belief system. It is an all-encompassing ideology that seeks to regulate the world's political affairs according to Shari'a law. Islam conflicts with Western ideals of government and social order; and, because of the West's freedom, education, wealth, and military power, Islamic fundamentalism sees the West as its greatest obstacle to world leadership. Islamic fundamentalists find the West hindering its objectives in Africa, Southeast Asia, Palestine, and other parts of the world. Until the West understands the full scope and intent of Islamic political ideology, they will not understand Islamic fundamentalism's objectives. Typically, Western leaders think Islam is a just a competitor of Judaism and Christianity. However, Shari'a law gives a clear insight into Islam's objectives for the world's political and social order. Islam challenges Western civilization itself, because it is a Complete Way of Life — and its Shari'a Law is not compatible with Western ideals and civilization.

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

What do you want to bet some mod will delete this thread because they don't like anyone questioning Islam.