Do you believe in Qadar (Predestined)?

[Maroodijex]

Do you believe in Qadar (Predestined)?

How often do you hear "Waa iska Qadar Ilaahay"... "Ilaahay ayaa ugu tala galay"... etc etc etc...

It is very common thesedays in the Muslim world, specialy. Most often it is used in the context of scapegoating blame by instead diverting the blame to the creator who "predistined" for that failure to happen. It is a self-defeating belief. One of the biggest psychological unfortunates in the Muslim World.

I know its one of the 6 pilars of Imaan, but I believe the way it was interpretted is wrong. For instance, How can Allah expect you to work for you Diin and follow the right path and do the right things, when he is the one who has pre-programmed all the actions you'll do anyway? I mean, every action, whether you'll be a good person or bad person, whethre you'll go to Jannah or Jahannama, they are all written in the "Lawxul Maxfuud", as we are told. So, if I sit on my butt and do nothing or if I work like crazy, at the end what I do is not in my control but has already been scripted. I am no more than a mere object following a script.

I think that notion is wrong. I think the philosophical meaning of "Qadar" has deeper meaning.

Lets for instance compare two man made computer annimations. One, a simple Flash Movie; Two, a sophesticated computer model of humans/humaniods (Artificial Intelligence). Both are man made. But one, the former, requires no brains at all. The flash movie will repeat the same staff over and over and over again. The script is very simple. You would be utterly stupid if you expected the flash movie do something you didn't script for.

The later Artificial Intelligence (AI) model, is more complex and sophesticated. The characters in this AI model do make decisions for themselves based on set of rules. Those decisions that are available for the AI model, have been pre-programmed and defined by a Human being... its a matter for the AI model to choose the best decision depending upon its conclusion based on the set of rules that were provided.

The human that created this AI model will not be able to guess what the next action of the AI model will be, because it will depend entirely on the conclusions and calculations of the AI model itself. So whatever action the AI model decides will be of its own choosing and it wouldn't blame me for choosing that decision out of all the other options available.

On the same token, I believe Allah has put down all the options/actions and decisions that could ever be on Lawxul-Maxfuud, but its on my own choosing to choose which action to take. And not the often-held view that, ALlah has pre-destined for me to sit on my butt at this point in time. No, I choosed to sit on my butt, and its not allah that I should blame.

Similarly, Muslims should stop scapegoating their failures on Allah.

What do you guys think?

[generalka]

its a load of shyt, i dont see how anyone can believe in that crap regardless of how you interpet it.

its a lose/lose situation you see. Allah is all-knowing so even if you have free will, he knows you're going to end up in hell. Since he dons't do a damn thing about it, it really dosn't matter if there is Qadr or not.

But no need to dwell on that. The Quran and Hadiths clearly state everyones fate has already been written out, and the "ink has dried on the parchment". So like it or not, if you are Muslim; you gotta believe in Qadr.

[Somaliweyn]

What I think is that people do have free will.

They can choose among certain options available to them. If their decisions lead to failure it is because of their decisions not because of Qadr. But on the other hand since the human mind is rationally bounded and since there are events which cannot be explained rationally and are called luck, or coincidence etc, I believe allah sets the setting for us to act. and we behave according to our own decisions on that created set for us.

About "Lawxul Maxfuud", I believe Allah has written everything in that book. Even if someone goes to heaven or hell. But people should not interpret this fact as people predestined and without free will. It is actually complicated.

Since Allah created everthing between the heavens and earth, thus including time, it is easy for Allah to look into the future and past of someone. So even before you're born and still as a little seed in your mother Allah can see how your life will be, he can look into the future and see what decisions you will make, what good deeds you will do what bad deeds you will do, at what age you will die and eventually wheter you go to hell or heaven etc...all this information is thus written in "Lawxul Maxfuud".

You can compare it with watching a movie on dvd or video, when the movie starts, the titling begins, you see the characters in the movie you can fast forward to the end and see the end of the movie. You now know the end of the movie but that does not make the characters in the movie without will of themselves, their actions and decisions in the movie will lead to their place at the end of the movie, you as someone watching the movie can know the end.

In the case of Allah it goes further since Allah is the mighty. Allah can know your future and even shape your future by setting the scene in some events of your life. This in the form of bad luck, good luck, coincidence etc.

For example you can cross the road, everything according to the rules, you look left, then right...but suddenly there comes this car from a corner you couldn't see, and the driver of this car is driving way too fast. Pamn, there you lie dead on the streat or at least crippled...is this because of your decision? No, since you have done everything according to the rules.

Is this the fault of the driver for the most part yes...now why has it to be you lying dead on the street or crippled? Is it because you was at the wrong place at the wrong time? Could you forcast this accident, no. Could you change how things have went, no. In this case Allah creates the setting while the humans in this setting are powerless to make decisions or actions outside this setting, they can only act within this setting.

There are many events like this one which are not the sum of your decisions or actions but are outside of the human power.

So your question is a complex one...at least I hope i gave you an idea of how things might be.

at the end, Allah is the allknowing, the all mighty.

[LAFO-LAFO]

Braveheart wlc bro.

Qadar allah is very common in Muslim societies, They blame Allah and won't take responsibility for their own actions.

[Basra-]

'I know its one of the 6 pilars of Imaan, but I believe the way it was interpretted is wrong.'


What is one of the 6 pillars of islam?I mean which pillar relates to your essay above?



Personally that is one of the biggest Conundrum in Islam, & which i am sure quickly makes ex muslims like Dhuso, Cawar,Prag,Cilmiile,Xplaya,Galol---etc etc turn into Skeptics slash agnostics.

' How can Allah expect you to work for you Diin and follow the right path and do the right things, when he is the one who has pre-programmed all the actions you'll do anyway?'



Excatly--How is that possible? So as an intellectual, rationalized thinker- I say --Yes & No.Allah --SWT, certainly has arranged a pre-destined life for us here on earth,Indeed Allah is all knowing & certainly knows when you will be born, when you will die, & where u will end up:HELL OR HEAVEN.Everytime this talk of predestiny comes up---without a doubt there follows the arguements of -Allah giving humans a 'free will'.This very 'Free Will' is what ultimately seal the deal at the end of the day.Allah knows you will go to HELL-- but nevertheless gives you the free will to see what your choices are going to be & consequently whatever your choices are--is the results of where you will end up.This Free will = choices you make.You make the choices to murder someone.You make the choice to chew jaad & at the same time sleeping with single mothers.You make the choice to become an agnostic.This is Peripheries of choices is the part where it is not pre-destined for you, & what really matters in the end in regards to the question of heaven & hell!

So essentially --Allah SWT, knows --which one of us--who are naturally bad apples, who despite evidence & mental free will--decide anyway to do whatever they want to do.The hedonists--who drink,fornicate & pee on the roads--they made an immoral choice to be rebels, & they will get what they deserve in the end.There is the talk in Islam where it says--Whom Allah will to reform-- will reform'-- of course not paraphrasing the quote-- i am just utilizing my articulation skills to translate what i have heard among my religious relatives. So this tells you that --Allah SWT, certainly--values--'intentions' above all. Those who have good intention but have bad lucks in choices --Allah likely reforms.Basically, In Islam we are given all the perks to go to Heaven with the pre-requisites of: Worship Allah, live a moral life & Heaven will be your final address.If you are lazy', love the alcohol lifestyles--of course you will pretend to be a Skeptic & even declare thyself an agnostic.Personally i think all agnosts are just lazy, deep in the hole of immorality losers.Periord.




Huuuiisshh--Mashallaah--I fancy myself a Philosophical Wadadaad! Hajiyaad Basra sounds melodic, dont ya think?

[biko]

just because Allah is all knowing and all seeying doesnt mean you should use that as an excuse to blame the almighty and say, since he decided everything without conculting me then fock it!

just because the world and the muslim world in particular is focked up doesnt mean, its the direct result of the none-existance of humankind's free-will; its actualy the consequences of the way we exercise that free will.

remember consciousness is known by the person's behaviour, hence the well-known saying, 'the tree is known by the fruits it bear'.

[HELWAA]

Qadar ======> (Divine Preordainment)



The Noble Qur'an Al-Hadid 57:22

"No calamity befalls on the earth or in yourselves
but is inscribed in the Book of Decrees -- (Al-Lauh Al-Mahfuz),
before We bring it into existence. Verily, that is easy for Allah".

*

The Noble Qur'an - At-Tauba 9:51

Say: "Nothing shall ever happen to us except what Allah has ordained for us. He is our Maula (Lord, Helper and Protector)." And in Allah let the believers put their trust.

*

The Noble Qur'an - At-Takwir 81:28-29

To whomsoever among you who wills to walk straight, And you will not, unless (it be) that Allâh wills, the Lord of the 'Alamîn (mankind, jinns and all that exists).

**

Hadith - Sahih Bukhari 4:621, Narrated Abu Huraira

Allah's Apostle {salawat Allah w Salaam Allah upon him} said, "Adam and Moses argued with each other. Moses said to Adam, 'You are Adam whose mistake expelled you from Paradise.' Adam said to him, 'You are Moses whom Allah selected as His Messenger and as the one to whom He spoke directly; yet you blame me for a thing which had already been written in my fate before my creation?' " Allah's Apostle said twice, "So, Adam overpowered Moses."

**

Hadith - Sahih Bukhari 6:469, Narrated 'Ali

We were in the company of the {Salawat Allah w Salaam Of Allah be upon him} in a funeral procession at Baqi Al-Gharqad. He said, "There is none of you but has his place written for him in Paradise or in the Hell- Fire." They said, "O Allah's Apostle! Shall we depend (on this fact and give up work)?" He said, "Carry on doing (good deeds), for everybody will find it easy to do (what will lead him to his destined place)." Then he recited "As for him who gives (in charity) and keeps his duty to Allah, and believes in the Best reward from Allah (i.e. Allah will compensate him for what he will spend in Allah's way). So, We will make smooth for him the path of ease. But he who is a greedy miser...for him, the path for evil." (92.5-10)

**

Hadith - Bukhari, Narrated Anas bin Malik

The Prophet {Salawat Allah w Salaam of Allah be upon him} said, "Allah has appointed an angel in the womb, and the angel says, 'O Lord! A drop of discharge (i.e. of semen), O Lord! a clot, O Lord! a piece of flesh.' And then, if Allah wishes to complete the child's creation, the angel will say. 'O Lord! A male or a female? O Lord! wretched or blessed (in religion)? What will his livelihood be? What will his age be?' The angel writes all this while the child is in the womb of its mother."

**

Hadith - Tirmidhi and Ahmad, Narrated Matar ibn Ukamis

Allah's Messenger {Salawat Allah w Salaam of Allah be upon him} said: When Allah decrees that a person is to die in a certain land, He creates a need for him to go there.

**

Hadith - Tirmidhi and Ahmad, Narrated AbudDarda'

Allah's Messenger {Salawat Allah w Salaam of Allah be upon him} said: Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, has ordained for every servant amongst His creation five things: his death, his action, his abode, the places of his moving about and his means of sustenance

ASW