I went to the West and saw Islam, but no Muslims

[Arabman]

"I went to the West and saw Islam, but no Muslims; I got back to the East and saw Muslims, but not Islam."

By Muhammad Abduh (1849 - 11 July 1905).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Abduh

For those of you who live in the West, how valid was his statement? Take into account your personal experiences, discrimination, xenophobia, racism, stratification, DWB, stop-and-frisk policy, corporations enslaving poor people, a significant percentage of minorities (blacks) serving time, millions of homeless people, millions of hungry people, etc.

Personally, Muhammad Abduh had limited experience while in the West, and he saw what he wanted to see, while ignoring the reality. For instance, he went to the West while the practice of lynching African Americans was still in place. So, what do you think?

[Lillaahiya]

How can you see Islam w/o Muslims?

[Gabre]

Arabman, Abduh went to Europe, not America. There was no lynching of AAs in Vienna or Berlin. In the 1800s, there was no NYPD to do stop and frisk either.

Abduh was right in a way, because Europe was (and still is) more egalitarian for the average person. The ideals espoused by the Prophet Muhammed SAW were upheld by Europe while being ignored by corrupt Muslim leaders only out for their own gain. For example, I know that I can have a just trial in front of a jury of my peers in any court of the land here in America, with a lawyer provided by the state free of charge to give me legal counsel, based on a written legal system. In Saudi Arabia, I am not afforded any of these rights, and furthermore I can't even defend myself because what they call Shariah Law in Saudi Arabia isn't codified or written down anywhere, but up to the interpretation of the Judge I'm brought in front of.

But because Abduh's logical approach to Islam is branded "not the right Islam" by your brand of Islam, you automatically start making justifications in your head for why he cannot be right.

The only common vein of thinking I've noticed in your posts here on Somalinet is that you appeal to fallacies to support your ideas, which makes trying to hold a discussion with you pointless.

[grandpakhalif]

A false statement the West represents immorality encapsulated, people here value their freedom so much to the extent that they will fight those who seek to limit moral transgressions. The women here have no decency or shame, they'll gladly attempt to seduce you in their tight clothing and awful-smelling perfumes, the men are no better, the people here worship status. If you are poor and have good character you are worthless in society, but if you are rich and nasty you will have a large following. I can see the effects the West has had on muslims, wherein drinking alchohol is slowly becoming part of the norm in my generation, phrases such as "turn up" promote a drug crazed lifestyle. The vast majority of youth my age rarely attend the masaajid and can often be found in clubs and alleyways. Don't get me started on the sisters, women in full g clothed hijaab here causing major scenes in malls, restaurants and public spheres with no regard for modesty, if they are asked to quiet down, nothing but profanity escapes their lips.

Living in the West is like immersing yourself in fitnah, wherever you go, and it eventually affects a believing soul such as myself. I see corruption within myself, that could easily be avoided had it not been for my current residence.

[Lillaahiya]

Abduh was right in a way, because Europe was (and still is) more egalitarian for the average person. The ideals espoused by the Prophet Muhammed SAW were upheld by Europe while being ignored by corrupt Muslim leaders only out for their own gain. For example, I know that I can have a just trial in front of a jury of my peers in any court of the land here in America, with a lawyer provided by the state free of charge to give me legal counsel, based on a written legal system. In Saudi Arabia, I am not afforded any of these rights, and furthermore I can't even defend myself because what they call Shariah Law in Saudi Arabia isn't codified or written down anywhere, but up to the interpretation of the Judge I'm brought in front of.

In America, civil liberities are infringed upon on a daily basis. The legal system is in shambles and far from "just". If you can't afford a lawyer, you might as well plead guilty. Even if you have access to legal aid, the lawyer will advise you to take a plea bargain since they represent 100s of other people and aren't paid enough to even care. Also, judges here aren't always impartial.

Horrible example.

[Insomniac]

How about I went to Muslim lands and saw no Islam?

I went for Umra not too long ago. Millions upon millions of beggars, mostly kids, mostly Somali and Afghans lining up in front of McD's and petrol stations, begging for money. I filled up the tank (the Indian worker did), gave some money to the a young girl that seemed like she was no older than 6 or 7. I asked her why she was out so late begging, about her family, etc. As I drove from Jeddah to Mecca, there were mountains and small hills. Every now and again you will see a giant mansion with flood lights illuminating it, on top of these mountains and hills. I thought about it. Imagine if I was brought to this part of the world when I was young? I would have no education, no home, no job, no justice what so ever. The kids begging can't go to school, hospitals, or anywhere for that matter, because they are illegal. Unwanted. What sins do these miskiin kids carry? Would it be wrong to school them? To look after their health? Or it that something only the kufars do? There is no justice for Muslims in Muslim lands. The only respectable Muslim country I can think of is Malaysia.

If you want your world view changed, just visit these places. You might just come back a neocon.

[AgentOfChaos]

How can you see Islam w/o Muslims?

Translation= and your logic.

[hydrogen]

Millions upon millions of beggars, mostly kids, mostly Somali

Stop lying, there are only Yemeni beggar kids, poor Somali kids can't afford to cross the Gulf of Aden stupid idiot.

[Tanker]

If you want your world view changed, just visit these places. You might just come back a neocon.

[Insomniac]

@Idol
Listen faggot. I travelled through the whole f-king gulf. I think I know more about it than some bimbo who thinks she knows about face shapes of Bantus and Somalis. In short, go fuck yourself with a dragon dildo.

@Tanker
I am serious. I was so depressed. I ate out and these kids would know I am Somali. They would ask me for money, rushing towards, "walaal, aboowe, etc, etc, etc". Hard breaking scenes. I was never so depressed and I always thought I was some hard man but that shit hit me hard. I was like Jesse Pinkman in the last episode. There is no way to help them. You will become a bleeding heart liberal and a neocon all in one sxb. Seriously. I wanted to upper cut ever cunt with their short khamis telling me how lucky I was to visit "Muslim" lands.

[Tanker]

Afrobro

I understand what you mean sxb

[Lillaahiya]

AOC: Maanta maxaa ku helay?

[AgentOfChaos]

AOC: Maanta maxaa ku helay?

huh? Waxba walaal, just felt like translating your post to the OP.

[Arabman]

According to the Wiki link, Abduh went to Britain and France in the late 1800s. I wonder what impressed him so much to make his famous statement. That was an era when Britain and France were involved in slavery and colonialism. The Europeans in North and South Americas were equally involved in those affairs. Those of you who live in North America are aware of the sufferings of the indigenous (Native) people as well as the descendants (African Americans) of slaves. You mightn't be aware of the existence of millions of homeless who sleep on the streets, and millions of the hungry who don't know where they are gonna get their next meal.



So, if the 2010s are x-times better than the late 1800s, I wonder what Abduh saw in Britain and France that impressed him so much.

[Insomniac]

Because Muslims and even Somalis didn't have slaves right? Negroids are kept in zoos in Libya in 21st century.