Cilmiile Karbaash’s our Isaaq Snetter in under 41 posts

[sadeboi]

First and foremost, I am the same age as you, and I was not saying you are not qualified to take part of this discussion because of your age, rather because of the fact that you basically stated that all your information is from your father, which clearly explained the childish maqaayad stories and "waxa la yiri" statements. You do not seem like a person with real knowledge of the history of Somalia, otherwise you wouldn't make such statements as "the previous governments where better then the Siyaads;" the same previous governments that you said you have no knowledge about since you weren't alive back then to speak about, this going back to the my previous question; how can you speak about Siyaads era, you are not suppose to have any say, since you did not live throught it? Remember I am going by your logic, not mines, something you seemed to have ignored throughout the posts.


Gather your information and rebuttal wisely mate!

[Padishah]

Pity, Dawladsade, that this has been an opinion of mine for quite some time now. You're arguments do not have the transformative power you think they may have, and I'm not about to go down the route of self-delusion that you have. And the job is not complete, as you nor your brother have addressed any of my points.

Now, let's have a look at these points of yours;

1. I air the same opinion that the SSDF was misguided before that post, so that little point of yours is moot.
2. The accomplishments of Barre are undeniable. But that isn't the issue. The issue is the suppression of the people under the Dictatorship, and its moral and constitutional validity.
3. Sharing what blame?

As for being milked of poison remark. Let's just say that I am not the one who irratinally clings to the righteousness of the Barre regime as a blanket cloth and as a prayer of deliverance. And here, I've provided a naunced and balanced assessment, along all my posts, and I'm the one with the poison?

Dawladsade, you really are one hell of a joker. It was a nice try, seeking an out from this argument, but it did not work unfortunately. I sit here waiting for your response concerning the issue at hand, which in case you forgot, is the constitutional and moral cridentials of the Barre regime, and how this manifested in the actions against the Isaaq.

And Sadeboi, you really need to put this Aabe thing to rest. My father does not answer qabeel related questions. Why you continue to harp on about this, and avoid addressing my issue is to my amazement. If you are so offended by the remarks, ignore them and focus on the meat of my arguments. Do not try to use them as an excuse to wiggle your way out of addressing my argument, as its really transparent that you are trying to.

[Padishah]

No takers, ey?

Not suprised in the least.

[sadeboi]

[quote]I cannot say whether the '60's government was consistently just, fair and promoted equality, since I was not alive, nor was my father in any capacity to partake of political discourse.[/quote]

Did someone else write this? I am really amazed by your arrogance you dare lie in front of all us! If your father is not the source of all this crap you are spewing, why mention his capability to partake in politics at that time? This was your answer to my question, which was, "was the sixties government not more corrupt the Siyaads?" You see, based on your response, it can be concluded that, since you weren't old enough during Siyaads reign either, your father is your source, since he was capable of partaking in politics during Siyaads reign, I'm wrong?


[quote]And I will begin working on the answers to those questions.[/quote]

I am the one avoiding questions? Notice the hypocrisy? Why do you respond if you cannot, unable to really, address my questions?


Lastly, we are not talking about how Siyaad Bare (aun) became 'power hungry,' what we are talking about is the steps that led up to the civil war and the failure of the state, in which you were trying to pin it on Siyaad Bare solely, while ignoring [actually praising] rebels who took arm against their country and people when we were the most united.

[biko]

[quote="DawladSade"]Iska Jabuutiyaan baad tahaye adigu nama taqaanid, Somali way taqaan Mareexaan nalamana yaabi lahayn hadaad Soomaali ahaan lahayd...[/quote]
_______________________________________________________________________________

wa runta walaahi because wixiinan somali isku sheega ila iyo somaliland anaku hadan reer jabuuti nahay wax lala yaabo bad tihin.

in a nutshell;...kulu wada adhi!

[sadeboi]

Padishah, I can tell when someone is trying to leave the debate, its okay, but lets not pardon without answers to my questions, that you said you will come up with answers for, hopefully soon, seen as your trying divert from them by changing the subject!

[DawladSade]

Padishah, this is the legendary Mad-Dog/DawladSade. Because I have not shown any great effort to repudiate what you have written should automatically tell you that you do not deserve the rebuttal you think you deserve.

In the little I have written regarding your less then effective attempt in starting a discussion worthy of weight, you should receive the answer I wish not to waste my time. Surprisingly I have managed to change you even with such little effort.

You just said after being shown the light, however with little effort:

[quote]Somalia now is the product of not learning that lesson, and Dawladsade and Sadeboi are right when they say that this began when Majeerteen brought qabeel back into the equation, with the SSDF. This short-sighted little venture might have been our version of Pandora opening her accursed box.[/quote]

While you were airing this previously:

[quote]The historic 'liberation' movement that sprung up... (SSDF) ... was partly a response to the power abuse of the Barre government[/quote]

[quote]Another little tidbit in my support is the foundation of three 'liberation' movements (SSDF, SNM, USC, etc), partly in response to this suppression.[/quote]

Your previously position was those movements begun as a result of Siyaad's suppression, and now you understand the suppression itself begun as a result of the SSDF betrayal of Somalia.

In concludion SSDF>Suppression>SNM/USC instead of the Suppression>SSDF/SNM/USC you had believed.

I am glad you understand the truth now. toodles~

[Advocatar]

interesting opinions and facts from Mr. Dune aka padisha, sadeboi and dowladsade, I enjoyed you'll intellectual debate minus the personal attacks ofcoarse but I believe any further debate beyond my post will be about more intense personal attacks, self-boosting etc.., so it's good, if you'll end it here.

[Padishah]

This is just typical! One dismisses my argument as unworthy because he's 'Mad Dog Dawladsade', and the other still continues to harp on about his questions that were posed after my points. If we are having a civilised debate, then its required that you respond to my point first, and I respond to yours second, as that is how they were posted. And then, you continue with avoiding the topic, because I generously critique the Barre regime is being needed, and not all that desireable.

But I can see that neither of you are able to answer this very simple point. We still have accusations over the source of my argument when its primarily composed of general trends observed in all Dictatorships. Both of these are methods by which these two can get away from addressing my point, which they have not done so ONCE, in this whole farce of a debate.

I'm not at all suprised with the obfuscation, misdirection, and general avoidance of the topic, which was posted in my original post, which had to do with the constitutionality of the Barre regime, and the morality of it all. Its you and you're brother that have changed the subject from this, to the 'achievements of the regime' schtick, which is irrelevant. I can see you're both unwilling and unable to address this. And its clear for everyone to see.

Advocatar, I will end on this note. Unless these two are prepared to address the topic at hand, and not guve me this recycled 'progress and horumar' line.

[DawladSade]

Padishah why did you ignore my closing remarks?

[Padishah]

You mean the cheap cop out that I already addressed?

Simple. I had already addressed them, My comments do not entail believing that the regime was righteous. Yes, there was progress. No, it was not constitutional, nor was it carried out in a moral manner. Here is the earlier post:

[quote="Padishah"]
Pity, Dawladsade, that this has been an opinion of mine for quite some time now. You're arguments do not have the transformative power you think they may have, and I'm not about to go down the route of self-delusion that you have. And the job is not complete, as you nor your brother have addressed any of my points.

Now, let's have a look at these points of yours;

1. I air the same opinion that the SSDF was misguided before that post, so that little point of yours is moot.
2. The accomplishments of Barre are undeniable. But that isn't the issue. The issue is the suppression of the people under the Dictatorship, and its moral and constitutional validity.
3. Sharing what blame?

As for being milked of poison remark. Let's just say that I am not the one who irratinally clings to the righteousness of the Barre regime as a blanket cloth and as a prayer of deliverance. And here, I've provided a naunced and balanced assessment, along all my posts, and I'm the one with the poison?

Dawladsade, you really are one hell of a joker. It was a nice try, seeking an out from this argument, but it did not work unfortunately. I sit here waiting for your response concerning the issue at hand, which in case you forgot, is the constitutional and moral cridentials of the Barre regime, and how this manifested in the actions against the Isaaq.
[/quote]


Simple.

[Padishah]

Are asny of you going to address my points, or are we going to go round in circles obfuscating until there is no point to continuing, and thereby declaring your victory?

[Sadaam_Mariixmaan]

WHY DO MAXAMED AND AXMED DAAROOD FIGHT ALL_TIME??


LET'S HOOTSIES THEN EACH OTHER

[sexy-kitten]

[quote="1nemansquad"]Biko, this dude is an invalid old harlot and how can you tell a Dhulos from Dhabayaco? what are you? dude don't be credulous, anyone can simulate to be whoever around here, its been done.

How can he be Dhulos when he is on daily basis glorifying these kunts while they, the soo called Dhabayaco's are dissing Dhulos?

That doesn't sound like a Dhulos to me man but another slimy Dhabayaco.

Candhoole, being half Samaroon is the best thing that happend to me, hate it all you want ..[/quote]

... And he can glorify all he wants. That doesn't make him a non-dhuulo. The dhulbahante people I met are all friendly with the MJ (or according to you 'dhabyaco') and vice versa. Marka, excuse him for loving his Harti brothers. Dhareerka iska du, you'll never get Dhulbahante and Majeerteen get at it, even if you do.. Waa labo walaalo it happens. But you wouldn't know shit about that waayo you never met your father, am I right?

These kunts kulahaa, oo adigu maxaa isku sheegtayna? Ileyn waad caytami jirtay oo anigaan ogeyn?

I see inaad meel kale ka gubaneysid. And I couldn't care less meeshaad ka gubaneysid.

[sadeboi]

Padish, your incompetence amazes me. You keep repeating that I ignored the questions in your first post. Lets look at your first post:
[quote]
What a load of self-serving, self-justifying crock!

I'm sure those government was defending the constitution when they orchastrated a coup, started unconstitutional organisations such as the NSS, held one-sided elections, and other things Dictatorships are won't to do. But this is alright, according to Sadeboi, because those in government were defending the constitution they defecated upon in order to come into power, and then continued defecating on to remain in power.

And bombing civilians in their houses and cities, even when the rebels are among them, only gives those civilians 1001 reasons to join, support and give comfort to the rebel organisation your trying to crush! And then there was the fact that you had to contract racist Afrikaner pilots in order to carry out this 'police action' in order to ;uphold the constitution' and 'protect the people'.

Why not tell us that it was a Dictatorship bent on holding on to power at any cost, prompted into this action by misguided rebels (or freedom fighters, whatever) using their own as a shield against retribution. That way, it bears some semblance of truth.[/quote]


Your comment was mostly opinions, and the only “question” you had is why I did not explain how the government was a dictatorship.

Now if I am wrong, which I am not, the subject was about the skirmishes between the SNM and the Government, and what happened and what could have happened, or been prevented. It had absolutely nothing to do with the style of government, and how such styles of governments is not the best choice. I saw your comments as absolutely having nothing to do with the subject of the SNM rebels and the steps the government took to rid them of the country. However, I oblige to your want of debating about the form of government we had, and I started to talk about the whole picture.

This was my answer:

[quote]Padish, the coup was the best thing that happened to Somalia. I know its hard to grasp such info because you hail from the mahbars who wanted Somalis to always be divided. The years before Siyaad Bare, nepotism and corruption were of the norm, one was asked, “whom he knows” before “what he knows;” remember the song “dhacdey, kuftey aya taqaan?” The song was made after the fall of the 60’s government, who did not even achieve one noteworthy thing during their reign; the people were poor, uneducated, and could not be part of the vastly developing world around them. Those governments denied the people the right of happiness, to be educated, to be equal, and did not give them a chance to better their new country; everything they fought for was ruined by them. It is why the people rejoiced when they heard on the radio the bloodless coup; their ears tuned to the radio, overjoyed with happiness as thet heard, “Sinnaan, cadlaad, midnimo, iyo hormar; ” those words were the foundation of the great government. Somalis were united, our language was written, our economy grew, our literacy rate skyrocketed, intellectual Somalis replaced foreign workers, education was free, banks and business were nationalized, our infrastructure greatly developed, highways and such were build, we reach the point that we were ready to fight for the liberation of our fellow Somali brothers in Killanka Shanaad; all Somalis were united. It is after our defeat, thanks to USSR and Cuba, that your ilk, lead by the so-called president, started the SSDF [mahbars]; they went back to Ethiopia in 1978, received weapons and attacked their own country and people with the aid of Ethiopian arsenal and manpower; qabilnimo over qaranimo. The Somali government with the backing of its people fended off these treasonous, many were caught, trailed, and executed for crimes against the state. That was 1978, in 1988 another treasonous group emerged in northern Somalia, unlike the SSDF, they hid in the towns and cities of the Somali people, the government had to make a dire decision, just like it did in 1969, they believed the protection of the Somali people and the country was in jeopardy, they took some tough actions. I do not believe that all the decisions they made were the best necessarily, however the rebels had to be put down; the government was trying to prevent the civil war and the killing, raping, hunger, starvation, destruction, poverty, lawlessness that Somali people face today. I am sorry if the “Majeertaan dream” was destroyed so we can have a unified nation and for the brotherhood of the Somali people, but I will not ever utter that the 1969 coup and the overthrow of the corrupt government was a mistake.

Salaams. [/quote]


And if I must say, it covered everything you talked about, and a lot more walaal!


So do not make any more excuses and answer the questions I have asked:

1) How was Siyaads government worst then the sixties government? And do spare us the bull crap of them being democratically elected for I have already talked about the fairytale democracy.

2) Was the sixties government not corrupt? Was there not a political turmoil? Were we not in brink of a civil war nine years after our independence? Did Somalis not rejoice after their overthrow?

3) Explain to us how the Siyaads government was unfair and harassing the people pre-78? Explain what wrong the government has done before 78, besides preach unity, equality, justice, and achieving the best for the county.

4) Lastly, was the SSDF not a treasonous group with a clan mentality when the rest of the nation was high on Somali unity? Are they not the blame for the downfall of Somalia?




If you are not ready to answer my questions, get some more information, take time to think about everything, and we shall continue.