Hawiya Moryaans control 90% Mogadishio.

[FAH1223]

HG will never be satisfied...

[James Dahl]

[quote="musika man"][quote="James Dahl"]There already sort-of is a Hawiye state, Galmudug, though that's only in Sacad territories.
The Cayr and Abgaal are pseudoindependent as well, as in noone really controls their territories either.

The real question at the moment is not whether there will be a Hawiye state, it's somewhat inevitable at this point that the Cayr and Sacad will join forces.

What IS in question is whether the Abgaal will be a part of that state, or whether they will form their own state, and if there are two states, which will Mogadishu belong to?[/quote]

^^^


you said you were canadian of scottish ancestory. worry about the canadian polar bear, it is becoming extinct. you are embarrassed to call yourself hawiye? if there were no habargedirs, somalia not the hawiye clan alone will be functioning. did the canadian tax payers send you to university to learn somali tribal politics? they should have sent you to work in my neighbors somali coffee shop.[/quote]

The polar bear is threatened due to global warming, which isn't something I personally have much control over, but I do my bit. I'm not sure why you're so convinced I'm Hawiye, but that's your issue to deal with I suppose.

You're quite a mystery to me as well, you're not Somali either as far as I can tell, but you are Somalian. Are you Banadiri? Bravanese? You guys could always declare Hamarweyne your own state.

[e!]

musika is a half breed...his mother is a jareer from jilib and his dad is a shanshi from merka, he was born out of wedlock on a beach in merka.

[musika man]

[quote="James Dahl"]

The polar bear is threatened due to global warming, which isn't something I personally have much control over, but I do my bit. I'm not sure why you're so convinced I'm Hawiye, but that's your issue to deal with I suppose.

You're quite a mystery to me as well, you're not Somali either as far as I can tell, but you are Somalian. Are you Banadiri? Bravanese? You guys could always declare Hamarweyne your own state.[/quote]

^^^

james listen buddy, i know, you know that you are habargedir. don't be embarassed. there are 3 types of somalis, farmers, camel herding nomads and urbanites who are in trade and are technologists. hawiye, darod are mostly camel loving somali nomads who foked up somalia. my opposition to them stems from there. we will build a wall in hamar.

[James Dahl]

Hamar and Shingani have historical justification for being an independent state, and there used to be walls around the twin towns when they were independent interrelated city states.

That was almost a thousand years ago though, and Mogadishu has been at least partially Somali since Muzaffar times. When the Omanis gave the town to their allies the Abgaal in the 1600s that really marked the end of Banadiri ownership.

Still, Mogadishu probably shouldn't belong to any Qabiil-state, it should be a federal city. Capital of Abgaal should be Jowhar, Cayr capital should be Dusamareb and Sacad capital should be Hobyo. They can form a confederation with three capitals, and that way stupid fights over Mogadishu or leadership can be avoided.

[NoAngst.]

James, Xamarweyn is the only part in all of M'disho that yemeni rejects can claim as exclusively their own. Shingaani existed long before they came and for most of it's history was jointly shared between yemeni rejects and muduloods. Both are tiny neighbourhoods of modern M'disho. The rest of modern M'disho was built recently in the last 100 years. First paved roads were laid by the Italians. Places like Hurawaa, yaaqshiid, Wardiigley etc were once part of the countryside and made up Gofs or Ranches for Mudulood cowboys (lo'ley). Even the name WARDHIIGLEY should give you hints about it's history and ownership and blow out of the water any yemeni rejects claiming it as their own. Lastly, where did you get the idea M'dhisho was walled city before the Italians came?

[musika man]

[quote="James Dahl"]Hamar and Shingani have historical justification for being an independent state, and there used to be walls around the twin towns when they were independent interrelated city states.

That was almost a thousand years ago though, and Mogadishu has been at least partially Somali since Muzaffar times. When the Omanis gave the town to their allies the Abgaal in the 1600s that really marked the end of Banadiri ownership.

Still, Mogadishu probably shouldn't belong to any Qabiil-state, it should be a federal city. Capital of Abgaal should be Jowhar, Cayr capital should be Dusamareb and Sacad capital should be Hobyo. They can form a confederation with three capitals, and that way stupid fights over Mogadishu or leadership can be avoided.[/quote]

^^^

james, habargedirs alone can't share a village themselves let alone a state with other hawiye. nominate yourself as president of moryanland. i thought marehans were the majority in dhuusomareb. do you know what dhuusomareeb means in somali? can't hold the fart. indeed marehans and ayr are worse than farts.

NoAngst go and fok a donkey, that is what abgals are good for.

[James Dahl]

[quote="NoAngst."]James, Xamarweyn is the only part in all of M'disho that yemeni rejects can claim as exclusively their own. Shingaani existed long before they came and for most of it's history was jointly shared between yemeni rejects and muduloods. Both are tiny neighbourhoods of modern M'disho. The rest of modern M'disho was built recently in the last 100 years. First paved roads were laid by the Italians. Places like Hurawaa, yaaqshiid, Wardiigley etc were once part of the countryside and made up Gofs or Ranches for Mudulood cowboys (lo'ley). Even the name WARDHIIGLEY should give you hints about it's history and ownership and blow out of the water any yemeni rejects claiming it as their own. Lastly, where did you get the idea M'dhisho was walled city before the Italians came?[/quote]

Only Xamarweyn and Shingani were walled, and those walls have long since been knocked down.

[NoAngst.]

Of course only Xamarweyn and shingaani were walled, the rest of Xamar wasn't built back then. What's at contention is the timeline. The only documentation I'm aware of states it was after italians arrived. In fact it was built and guarded by italians with their askaris. Do you have any sources?

[musika man]

Mogadishu before the 20th century

Ibn Battuta, an Arab traveller. For an account of his travels in the 14th century go to Medieval Sourcebook: Ibn Battuta: Travels in Asia and Africa 1325-1354l. Therein you find the following account:
"The town of Mogadishu in Somalia On leaving Zayla we sailed for fifteen days and came to Maqdasha [Mogadishu], which is an enormous town. Its inhabitants are merchants and have many camels, of which they slaughter hundreds every day [for food]. When a vessel reaches the port, it is met by sumbuqs, which are small boats, in each of which are a number of young men, each carrying a covered dish containing food. He presents this to one of the merchants on the ship saying "This is my guest," and all the others do the same. Each merchant on disembarking goes only to the house of the young man who is his host, except those who have made frequent journeys to the town and know its people well; these live where they please. The host then sells his goods for him and buys for him, and if anyone buys anything from him at too low a price, or sells to him in the absence of his host, the sale is regarded by them as invalid. This practice is of great advantage to them. We stayed there [in Mogadishu] three days, food being brought to us three times a day, and on the fourth, a Friday, the qadi and one of the wazirs brought me a set of garments. We then went to the mosque and prayed behind the [sultan's] screen. When the Shaykh came out I greeted him and he bade me welcome. He put on his sandals, ordering the qadi and myself to do the same, and set out for his palace on foot. All the other people walked barefooted. Over his head were carried four canopies of coloured silk, each surmounted by a golden bird. After the palace ceremonies were over, all those present saluted and retired."

ZHENG HE , who visited Mogadishu during the fifth of seven "Ming voyages to the "Western Ocean" in the 15th century. For more details see Star Raft: China's Encounter with Africa, by Phillip Snow. At that time, "Mogadishu was an Islamic Sultanate, ruled by the Muzaffar Dynasty which in the 14th century was succeeded by the Dynasty of Fakhr ad-Din; the latter were dependent on the Ajuran, who in the early 17th century were defeated by the Hawiye Somali, thus becoming the new force dominating Mogadishu".

Duarte Barbosa, a Portugese traveller in the 16th century. See "The Book of Duarte Barbosa. An Account of the Countries Bordering on the Indian Ocean and Their Inhabitants Compiled about the year 1518 A.D. 2 vols. Vol. I. Including the Coasts of East Africa, Arabia, Persia and Western India as far as the Kingdom of Vijayanagar. Vol. II. Including the Coasts of Malabar, Eastern India, Further India, China and the Indian Archipelago" at http://www.vedamsbooks.com/no17183.htm. It is reported that "The Portuguese visited the city, but never succeeded in taking it".

"In 1704, the Omanis established control; Mogadishu never regained it's old position. In the early 19th century, Mogadishu followed Mombasa's example and threw off Omani sovereignty; in 1828, Mogadishu had to surrender to Omani forces. In 1841, with the partitioning of the Sultanate of Oman, Mogadishu became part of the Sultanate of Zanzibar. When Mogadishu was visited by French traveller Charles Guillain in 1846-1848, Mogadishu was dependent on both the Sultanate of Zanzibar and the Somali Geledi Clan."

see the pictures of abgals delivering milk and meat to hamar. enjoy

http://www.swan.ac.uk/cds/rd/mogimage.htm

[NoAngst.]

Musika, you should post the original source not someone's historical commentary. Here is some of what Ibn Battuta had written:

The town of Mogadishu in Somalia

On leaving Zayla we sailed for fifteen days and came to Maqdasha [Mogadishu], which is an enormous town. Its inhabitants are merchants and have many camels, of which they slaughter hundreds every day [for food]. When a vessel reaches the port, it is met by sumbuqs, which are small boats, in each of which are a number of young men, each carrying a covered dish containing food. He presents this to one of the merchants on the ship saying "This is my guest," and all the others do the same. Each merchant on disembarking goes only to the house of the young man who is his host, except those who have made frequent journeys to the town and know its people well; these live where they please. The host then sells his goods for him and buys for him, and if anyone buys anything from him at too low a price, or sells to him in the absence of his host, the sale is regarded by them as invalid. This practice is of great advantage to them.

We stayed there [in Mogadishu] three days, food being brought to us three times a day, and on the fourth, a Friday, the qadi and one of the wazirs brought me a set of garments. We then went to the mosque and prayed behind the [sultan's] screen. When the Shaykh came out I greeted him and he bade me welcome. ***The sultan of Mogadishu was Abu Bakr ibn Shaikh Umar. He was Barbara amd spoke the local language of Mogadishu, but he also knew Arabic. Battuta was introduced to the Sultan by the "qadi" Ibn al-Burhãn, an Egyptian. After sending a message via a student to the Sultan, the student returned with a plate containing betel leaves and areca nuts, and a sprinkler that contained Damascas rose water.*** He put on his sandals, ordering the qadi and myself to do the same, and set out for his palace on foot. All the other people walked barefooted. Over his head were carried four canopies of coloured silk, each surmounted by a golden bird. After the palace ceremonies were over, all those present saluted and retired.


^where were the walls?

[James Dahl]

Ibn Battuta and Zheng He's accounts are miniscule, barely a paragraph or two for each. They don't mention the city having a port or houses, those are merely implied.

However, by the time Ibn Battuta arrived, the walls no longer demarcated the city, as the Shirazi who took over the city in the 13th century had expanded outside Xamarweyne and Shingani, and did not fear the local Somali, who had converted to Islam around the same time and had thusly become less belligerant towards the city.

The Muzaffar who deposed the local Shirazi dynasty (founded by Fakhr ad-Din) had even less use for the walls, as they were relatives and clients of the massive Ajuran empire.

Fifteen hundred years ago however, things were different.

Originally Mogadishu was not one city, but two. The Sabaeans founded Shingani as part of their trade network that stretched from the Red Sea ports down the East African coast all the way to the Rufiji delta around modern day Dar es Salaam. Shingani at this time was less of a city and more of a trade post, where local tribes would come and barter their goods and trade with merchants from around the world. Such establishments have always required very high security in order to keep any greedy Chieftains from sacking the town for all the goodies inside.

When the Persians took over southern Yemen in the 5th century, they wanted a piece of that action, so they established their own trade posts at Hamar and Barawe. As the population of these towns was entirely merchants from other parts of the Indian Ocean, they converted essentially immediately to Islam in the late 6th and early 7th centuries.

The actual city of Mogadishu was founded by the Shirazis, a fleeing Iranian dynasty who then established cities all over the East African coast. They took over all the trade posts and expanded outside of them, intermarrying with the local Bantu and Cushites. The walls were less useful for them, and mainly served as the "royal" quarter of the city, as it was more secure.

Arabs founded a second Hamar outside the city in the 10th century, probably to try and get back their control of the coast trade, but either they abandoned it or the Shirazis shut them down a few centuries later.

You can probably still dig up parts of the old wall, but you have to remember that the original, pre-Shirazi towns are TINY, smaller even than the modern Shingani and Hamarweyn districts. If I had to guess, I'd say the wall is probably within a hundred feet of the old medieval docks.