--->>Similarities between Ogaden and Somaliland?????????????

[Abdi_Som]

let us put emotions aside and use our brain only.

in my opinion, i see some common events in ogaden and somaliland.
in somalia, Siad Barre was dedicated to Greater Somalia. but when he saw somalilanders oppose his rule, it is easy to see that he found somaliland as an internal threat to his goals. so as more somalilanders used violence to remove him and as traitors financed by ethiopia also attacked him, he used all his power against them.
it is easy to see that rebels are always weak in the beggining when they fight against a government. but the war between rebels hidding inside population and a government will always cause death and destruction.

it happened in somaliland and it is happening in ogaden.
the question is, can we blame siad barre ONLY for the death of 100,000 somaliland civilians???
i believe, we can not.
when facing an insurgency, governments will always make mistakes or be aggresive. what stupid government will say, okay, i give up.
and look at america, it is killing many iraq civilians when trying to kill insurgents. if the greatest military like america can not "FILTER" insurgents from local population using all its technological power in 2008, how can we expect Siad barre running one of the poorest country to do it in 1980s???

it is the same common with all insurgents around the world, especially africa.

insurgents in poor countries hope to liberate a country, an ethnicity, a clan etc so the horn of africa will continue to have this problem for many years.

but, why should we be surprised when death and destruction occurs in every case??
we should stop being ignorant and find a solution instead.



My opinion

I think there are 2 futures to all of this madness and crisis in our region.

1 future option

All somalis, Tigray, Oromos, ethiopians and other ethnicities and clans need to understand history without using emotion. And we must ask, why?? why are the same things happening again?? and we must find a way to negotiate and find solution peacefully

2 future option

if we can't find a solution together peaceful, we should all work hard to live separately in ethnic terms and clan terms. maybe this is the solution. if we look at EUROPE, they have many very small countries. why?? maybe they passed thru the crisis of africa already. so we all should create our small countries. Ogaden republic, Tigray, Oromia, somaliland republic, Afar republic, puntland, etc etc.
maybe there will be more and more wars to divide to even smaller so even if Puntland becomes a country, Mudug or Bari will start insurgency inside puntland to separate again from Puntland republic.... so the only way is to allow freedom to separate as many times as possible, even if africa become 10,000 very small countries.

so what do you guys think??

first, do you agree that Siad Barre had no choice but to fight against somaliland rebels??

Second, do you agree that insurgents everywhere will always cause humanitarian crisis as the governments will always fight against insurgents?? (ex. SNM/somaliland, ONLF/ogaden, ICU/Mogadishu)

third, if you agree in part 1 and 2, then we should not be surprised with the destructions in somaliland, ogaden and mogadishu...so what is the solution??

[Aliyah99]

Both had a humanitarian crisis but Somaliland's rebel movement ultimately was successful because I believe it faced a less formidable enemy an already hated and divided regime.

Stability can only be achieved in the horn by forming little states like former Yugoslavia..

Former Somalia

[Abdi_Som]

Both had a humanitarian crisis but Somaliland's rebel movement ultimately was successful because I believe it faced a less formidable enemy an already hated and divided regime.

Stability can only be achieved in the horn by forming little states like former Yugoslavia..
Former Somalia

so you are saying, you choose solution #2 ??

well, the #2 option is good but i think the #1 option is better because we must ask one important question...how many little states will be formed?? or can we be sure the violence will stop as soon as smaller states are formed or will more smaller states seek separation??

in other words, if Puntland Republic is formed, can we be sure that Mudug inside Puntland will not start insurgency to liberate themselves from puntland?? (because of bitterness,economic inequality, corruption, poverty etc)
can we be sure Dire dawa and other ogaden region will try to liberate themselves from Ogadenia republic if ONLF is successful one day?? can we be sure that Sanaag inside Somaliland Republic will not start insurgency to liberate themselves from somaliland??

so when would the cycle of smaller and smaller separation stop?? that is a main question

[The_Emperior5]

abdi som Puntland wont decleare independence they cant live with out mogadisho they dont have the balss to declare indepdence from somalia

[Abdi_Som]

abdi som Puntland wont decleare independence they cant live with out mogadisho they dont have the balss to declare indepdence from somalia

i see your argument and you could be right
but each situation is unique a little bit and my focus of discussion is generally on the ideology of separatism of SNM/somaliland and ONLF/ogaden ... whats your opinion about the central idea of this thread?? do you choose #1 or #2 or other??

[The_Emperior5]

Abdi som afcourse man IF people cant live to gether they have to go different directions
But then again you know oromia is big you know you guys should anex all the land and rule adis ababa its your land
We know melez zanawi is working for a larger Tigray nation but then again we have zone 5 i think kilinka shanaad of the Ethiopia or Somaligina Should be split in 2 part of hawd and reserve area shoud be add 2 somaliland becaus.
Becaus it was part of the british Somaliland hawd and resrve area Becaus Ethnicaly they are related to the People of somaliland the other part of somali region with in Ethiopia must form there own nation.
Puntland if they want independence they should go for it the hawiyes in the south needs to form there own country 2 or the people are decented of the zumali in the south must form there own nation that would be great

[surrender]

abdi som i agree with you in a sense that we cannot blame siad barre ONLY for the death of millions of people. one man cannot create so much death and distruction without help. BUT what siad bare or any warlord has done or doing is wrong. killing innocent people because they want things their own way is against our religion. killing innocent people and using rebels as a excuse is wrong, and thats why many african countries are failing. nevertheless isas abuduli yusuf said when two elephents fight the grass gets ruined or something like that.

so i agree with option is ONE: being that we should understand All somalis, Tigray, Oromos, ethiopians and other ethnicities and clans need to understand history without using emotion. And we must ask, why?? why are the same things happening again?? and we must find a way to negotiate and find solution peacefully. and for this sake we should get along and live together as one.

HOWEVER this ties with option TWO. because if we cant get along and live together as one, then we should go our seperate ways. i personally think we somalis as a whole are better of as one. thats why EMPRIOR PUNTLAND is not looking for recognition, we are somalis. and whatever the circumstance in somalia we share. we together as one. i personally will fight for the blue flag even by word of mouth. i wouldnt like to see it die before our eyes.

[The_Emperior5]

yeah surrender laakin walaalo

what if goverment will never setle in mogadisho what then

Ali mahdi tried
So did Aideed
So Did Xassan daahir aweys even Abdiqasim and cali khalif ghalayd tried
And now cabdilhai yusuf and people still dont want a central goverment how long will you wait for a goverment so settle in somalia manay ka fiicnayn if you do your shit on your own if people dont want it puntland is payin all the price for the t fg you know i think hawiyes waxbka kama gallin haday t f g na babado they dont give a shit laakin puntland they put everthing in so that this t f g could work.

[surrender]

EMRIOR just put it this way. i rather have no government and still be somali and have this beautiful flag along with my beautiful culture, religiona and language. then to sell myself to the UN AU & EU because they going to make me a new "country" see i like how somalia is. im not going to lie. we would be better of if we had security everything else will come so easy if the security issue is sorted. but as i said before i rather have no government than lose this. :love: :love:

[The_Emperior5]

EMRIOR just put it this way. i rather have no government and still be somali and have this beautiful flag along with my beautiful culture, religiona and language. then to sell myself to the UN AU & EU because they going to make me a new "country" see i like how somalia is. im not going to lie. we would be better of if we had security everything else will come so easy if the security issue is sorted. but as i said before i rather have no government than lose this. :love: :love:

laakin inaabti waxba tarii mayso somali baan ahay uu waan qurux badanahay uu luqad baan leeyahay
Dunidud dhaqaalo iyo hormar iyo daaroo dhadheer uu cadcad aya hormar lugu ghaadhay
you can still be a somali if your from puntland i can still be a somali if i am from somaliland or some one from Djbouti.

[SahanGalbeed]

First of all I don't know who are the "traitors financed by Ethiopia " are in this case .
Yes the regime of Mengistu Haile Mariam has helped us liberate our people from tyranny , but I don't think we have betrayed anybody .
Siyad Barre regime was built on ONE clan , that clan being the DAROOD.
May all the darood regain their former glory , and acheive peace and unity .
Ogaden-ku kuwo aan fahmay ma'aha , waxay rabaan na ma ogi .
Marku mid iyaga ah Kisamyo ka soo dhex baxa na , halkaasey u wada jabaan , oo Allahu Akbar-tas uun baad ka maqlaysa , marka kale na Ethiopianka ayay ka cawdaan .
Marka hadal ii dhamaan , anigu choice-keygu waa Somaliland { 1 iyo 2 ayuu baan halkan ka arka e }
Democracy-ga asalka ah , wax ka xalaalaysan ma jirto . It takes patience ..a lot of patience , wisdom from our leaders , and love among ourselves .
I have said this before , from the ground up baa wax loo dhisa , gadabursi,dhulbahante , warsangeli iyo isaaq xisaabtooda common denominator baa lagu xidha kara .

Majeerteenia , jubbaland , galmudug , banadir ..ect dembi baan ka qaadayna sidaan isu leenahay wax la qabta , don't give a fuc.k anymore !

[Abdi_Som]

Abdi som afcourse man IF people cant live to gether they have to go different directions
But then again you know oromia is big you know you guys should anex all the land and rule adis ababa its your land
We know melez zanawi is working for a larger Tigray nation but then again we have zone 5 i think kilinka shanaad of the Ethiopia or Somaligina Should be split in 2 part of hawd and reserve area shoud be add 2 somaliland becaus.
Becaus it was part of the british Somaliland hawd and resrve area Becaus Ethnicaly they are related to the People of somaliland the other part of somali region with in Ethiopia must form there own nation.
Puntland if they want independence they should go for it the hawiyes in the south needs to form there own country 2 or the people are decented of the zumali in the south must form there own nation that would be great

addis ababa is already oromia whether others like it or not. but the question i asked you about sanaag fight for separation against somaliland and mudug fighting for separation from puntland is the same question in Oromia.
here are some regions oromiya
--Arsi (historically proud, close to original borana)
--Welega (historically separatist oromos, 60 years ago, they wanted division from other oromos --to create country)
--tulama, shoaa (historically adoptive and assimilated with amhara; but there are smaller groups)
--wollo (religiously fragmented, mixed with amhara and tigray)

and there are other oromoo groups...if Oromia republic is formed, the same question is, will that stop the cycle or will more smaller regions seek "independence"???
it is the same question we ask of somaliland..
so you can not avoid that important question.

abdi som i agree with you in a sense that we cannot blame siad barre ONLY for the death of millions of people. one man cannot create so much death and distruction without help. BUT what siad bare or any warlord has done or doing is wrong. killing innocent people because they want things their own way is against our religion. killing innocent people and using rebels as a excuse is wrong, and thats why many african countries are failing. nevertheless isas abuduli yusuf said when two elephents fight the grass gets ruined or something like that.

so i agree with option is ONE: being that we should understand All somalis, Tigray, Oromos, ethiopians and other ethnicities and clans need to understand history without using emotion. And we must ask, why?? why are the same things happening again?? and we must find a way to negotiate and find solution peacefully. and for this sake we should get along and live together as one.

i think option 1 is better too but it is virtually impossible, as we can see no one will be sitting down around a table

HOWEVER this ties with option TWO. because if we cant get along and live together as one, then we should go our seperate ways. i personally think we somalis as a whole are better of as one. thats why EMPRIOR PUNTLAND is not looking for recognition, we are somalis. and whatever the circumstance in somalia we share. we together as one. i personally will fight for the blue flag even by word of mouth. i wouldnt like to see it die before our eyes.

but somaliland has already declared independence while other somali regions are in kenya and ethiopia.

you said "i personally will fight for the blue flag "
how far will you go in your fight for your dream?? if you had the military power like a leader....as far as Siad Barre did in fighting to preserve somaliweyn at the expense of 100,000 Somalilanders killed?? as far as menigistu in fighting to preserve eritrea at the expense of many thousands of eritrean killed?? as far as melees zenawi starving ogaden people ??

i think this takes as back to SQUARE ONE because if we are passionate about our goal, we will do anything possible to achieve it. which makes all of us little barres, zenawws and little mengistus

[surrender]

no, this is it though!!!! somalis will never have peace no matter whether they buy a ticket from the un, ue au and the us because then we will always fight for what we think is right. for example do you actually think somaliland will be peacefull and live happily ever after when they took other people's land by force?????????? no!!! the people will always rebel and somaliland's security will hit bottom rock if the government does as much a inch of a mistake, so basically you guys have to keep looking back every second of your life until the land issue is sorted, and the only way is going to be sorted is if you guys give the land back, and if you do that, you wont have a "country" you see where this is going.? there is no way back. which ever way you look somaliland is stuck right in the middle. and as for south. ilaahay bay leeyihiin. for all we know they can shake hands with AY now and today, and the south will be back and running again. what did alaah said in the quran? we give each and every nation to live as their best or something like thats. so south might have its problems today but for all you know muqdhisho could be the NEW YOR city of Africa tommorow. we have no gurentee. but because we think its all doom and gloom for the southerners and rest of somalia, dont mean we going to shake hands with the devil (in this case kufaar ) and ask them a better newer country. i think thats real cowardness and shows that beterayel and not worth calling those back down a "brother" we should stick together

[The_Emperior5]

Abdi som let me tell you something Siyaad barre wassent Fighting for Somaliweyn Siyad barre was fighting for a larger darood nation or Darodizme He wanted ogadens to live in our land. In Somaliland Thats why he wanted to ethnic clean the people of somaliland in the nort so his tribe could live in the north he started moving ogadens refugess to send them with trucks to hargeysa he let his Own merehaan folks to live next to the gadabuursi dir so they could intermarry witht locals there from the west merehaan from south ogaden from east harti that was his aim. SO he could say of the 18 province of somalia 15 are lived by Darods.

About easteren sanaag where the darod tribe lives its up 2 them what they want Puntland some how Because of clan but on the Other hand Historicaly They belong To somaliland There Sultan Under British was called the sultan of Somaliland suldan ali shire.

[surrender]

^the above comment is for EMPRIOR.(the red one)
abdi som
you mentality is exactly the same as the ones that doing the distruction in somalia. what makes you think i need a military power like a leader????? guns dont kill people. people kill people was the saying that came to my mind as i was reading you post. we dont need no guns or military power, all we need is thousands and thousands of starving somalis who have no houses, food or education and a PEN. and off we go!!! we teach them the way forward, we teach them about change. thats the real gun. thats the real power we need. EDUCATION. if we get 100 of educated people in each qabiil. set them off to teach their people the right way forward, they will listen. want change and WILL change. is about time we change the way we think, dont you agree?