Old Banaadir

[Warsan_Star_Muslimah]

Demure; Why can't we in the South declare ourselves the Southern State of Somalia, without qabil rearrangements?

Baasbuur; These are just ideas okay, nothing to get worked up over. Qabiil is a real issue in Somalia today, so people are trying to find sloutions to the problems we face. There is no point in us denying it and saying we'll all live happily together at the moment. There are low levels of trust amongs qabils today, eveything people do is motivated by qabil, and Somalis are finding it very hard to move forward. Part of the reasons why the Northern parts have managed to move on is because their more homogeneous, i.e. they are more or less from the same qabil. And the reason why the south is so volatile is because this is the melting point of somali qabils. But this doesn't mean we can't overcome this!

The Thoughts of a confused Muslimah aka Me; Anywho, I question whether we'll ever unite as one again, if we ever become separate regions, and go along the qabil lines possibly leading to a permanently broken Somalia. Also it is not plausible if you want the jubba areas to become part of 'Hawiyeland' because those who live in those regions may not want to move to the north, or anywhere else. But a 'Hawiyeland can be achieved if we are to discount those areas. However, is this the best idea? Economically speaking if the whole South joined together we would be stronger, and more powerful. Also, qabil is sometimes overstated, I have relatives who did business in all over jubba areas, kismayo, and even extending to Somali part of kenya. There is no witch hunting going on, so whats the problem really? The problem is who gets to rule, if we divide that, then inshallah it should be fine. (sounds easy huh? )

Look at the situation today? Only in the south do we bloody get a 110 Islamic groups all saying we are the right ones To be frank I'm fed up!

Salaam

[BaasAbuur]

first of all, i did not get overworked by what demure wrote. she called for the removal of entire groups from their traditional degaans because they happened to belong to a certain group and I pointed out how her ideas were crazy and exactly the same as what has been tried in the past and failed. ideas of that sort gaurantee that the endless wars and the instability in the south will continue on for the next 50 years.

back to the topic: the north is not more homogeneous than the south. it is indeed less populated than the south but still a large number of clans live there outside of the main ones like harti and isaaq. the difference with the north is that it was just never exposed to the moryaan culture of the south where everything, including the daylight robbery of mosque goers has become halal for many. half of the population in mogdishu illegally occupy houses others have built for themselves and here we are discussing why the north is peaceful and the south is not.

the south lives in haram and its main problem is mogdishu which needs to be fixed really bad. the people in the north are also generally more educated and more resourceful than those in the south. it has a lot less to do with how homogeneous these regions are since each clan have their own little enclave where everything goes their way. it is not easy overcoming a culture for it will require a massive campaign to deprogram the masses.

Also it is not plausible if you want the jubba areas to become part of 'Hawiyeland' because those who live in those regions may not want to move to the north,

The problem is who gets to rule, if we divide that, then inshallah it should be fine. (sounds easy huh?

Why don't everyone rule those places they live in and control? And for a southern government, everything can be shared just like they are shared everywhere else in the world.....along numbers.

[Warsan_Star_Muslimah]

BaasAbuur; Okay

Half of the houses of moqdishu maa gartay sheekada? I can see this isn't going to work.

I didn't know my comment was shocking?

Why don't everyone rule those places they live in and control? And for a southern government, everything can be shared just like they are shared everywhere else in the world.....along numbers.

Okay we'll do that.

Salaam

[Somaliman50]

first of all, i did not get overworked by what demure wrote. she called for the removal of entire groups from their traditional degaans because they happened to belong to a certain group and I pointed out how her ideas were crazy and exactly the same as what has been tried in the past and failed. ideas of that sort gaurantee that the endless wars and the instability in the south will continue on for the next 50 years.

back to the topic: the north is not more homogeneous than the south. it is indeed less populated than the south but still a large number of clans live there outside of the main ones like harti and isaaq. the difference with the north is that it was just never exposed to the moryaan culture of the south where everything, including the daylight robbery of mosque goers has become halal for many. half of the population in mogdishu illegally occupy houses others have built for themselves and here we are discussing why the north is peaceful and the south is not.

the south lives in haram and its main problem is mogdishu which needs to be fixed really bad. the people in the north are also generally more educated and more resourceful than those in the south. it has a lot less to do with how homogeneous these regions are since each clan have their own little enclave where everything goes their way. it is not easy overcoming a culture for it will require a massive campaign to deprogram the masses.

Also it is not plausible if you want the jubba areas to become part of 'Hawiyeland' because those who live in those regions may not want to move to the north,

The problem is who gets to rule, if we divide that, then inshallah it should be fine. (sounds easy huh?

Why don't everyone rule those places they live in and control? And for a southern government, everything can be shared just like they are shared everywhere else in the world.....along numbers.

Warya, get the hell out of this provincinial thread with your cheap D-block propaganda. You want to talk about who lived on Haram, talk about the corrupt gov't of Siad Barre who forcefully displaced regional populations in the name of a government, talk about how property was distributed to certain groups of people who were affiliated with his tribe, talk about how his attempts to nationalise the private wealth and property of hard working Somali people saw the land and governance of certain areas going to his tribe. Talk about how his campaign to try and quelch tribalism saw his gov't propagating anything which promoted D-block supremacy and banning anything which promoted otherwise, and how he brainwashed the nation with his so called nationalism which was on the contrary. Nothing in Somalia's entire history was more filthy and corrupt than his clan dominated dictatorship which sowed the tribal seeds which have grown out of Somalia's dispair.

As for the thread, you want to know why there is no peace in the South and lack of development in Somalia generally? Simple, It is because it's been in the interest of Somalia's enemies for there to be no peace in Southern Somalia which is the hub of commercial and political importance. Ethiopia has been playing with the warlords in Southern Somalia and training them to keep the nation hostage. Ethiopia and the enemies have played seperate games for Northern and Southern Somalia. In the north, she convinces the leadership to pursue clan administrations given that they have both political and commercial cooperation. Southern Somalia which potentially has fertile land, mineral resources and strategic importances, Ethiopia makes sure that any leadership taken up in these areas will be a backward and uncivilised leadership.
Moving on, as an example of Ethiopia's reaction when there is any movement which threatens her relations with a crippled Somalia is her intervention in Gedo in 1996, the Al itixad Al Islamiya movement which Sh Dahir Aweys spearheaded was at the forefront between Ethiopia and her mercenaries. Again in 2006 she invaded to oust the Union of Islamic Courts, the movement which brought a sense of peace and stability to war torn Southern Somalia. In addition to all this, Ethiopia further cripples our nation by being a main player in the khat trade, whose impact is already known to be devastating and negative. She continues to spread pain and torture to our people in the Ogaden whose independence is long overdue. She continues to use our financial resources to maintain her hidden agenda. By God, she will not allow a functioning Somalia to operate at her expense, yet one point on her side is the nature of the Somali people whose nomadic cultural lifestyle sees them unable to overcome clan differences and hence will allow their enemies to come between them.

[Warsan_Star_Muslimah]

Abakar; that piece, C'est Très Magnificent. Especially the Ethiopia part.

I'm sure they even encouraged for the revolt against Said Barre (aun) regime too, which didn't even need that much of an encourgement, and I bet they even stirred up the qabil fight/hatred between Somalis.

Salaam

[Shirib]

Warsan_Star_Muslimah,

The problem with southern Somalia is that people from Mudug and Galgaduud are trying to rule the land for there clans when they are not from there

[Demure]

Baasabuur,

What Afweyne did was implant his ppl in the South and give them ligitimacy by creating places like Gedo out of thin air. Moving these ppl can be accomplished, just like they mass migrated to the South, they can mass migrate North again. Too bad Caydid got distracted before he finished his mission.

Warsan,

Unfortunately, the South can not just be declared a state today just the way it is, there are too many imposters claimining land that is not theirs for one, secondly, groups like Raxanweyne, Gibil Cad, and others may not want to share a state with the Hawiye, in which case they should have their say about their destinay. They have been sidelined long enough.

Abakar, Good Analysis. As Somali we proved dumb to fall for our enemies tactics (namely Ethiopia), therefore, wouldn't the first steps to resolution be in removing the thing our enemies hit hard; clan divisions/mistrust in the South for good? i.e. no more Northern/Central clans in the South?

[Addoow]

I may add that jubbaland is not only daarood land,the original inhabitans of that region are hawiye which still reside in jubbaland.

[BaasAbuur]

Baasabuur,

What Afweyne did was implant his ppl in the South and give them ligitimacy by creating places like Gedo out of thin air. Moving these ppl can be accomplished, just like they mass migrated to the South, they can mass migrate North again. Too bad Caydid got distracted before he finished his mission.

First of all, call the man by his birth name, Maxamed Siyaad Barre, and stop insulting a dead man. I know you were not raised with them but at least try to have some morals. Secondly, where exactly did Siyad Barre implant his people? Please tell me because I would like to know.

The idiocy of the Somali people is that they tell unbelievable lies and eventually start to believe in them. Gedo region was indeed created in 1974 but the region has always been inhabited by beesha Sade since the 1800s, long before even Maxamed Siyad Barre's father was born. Blame the man for many things but blaming him for implanting his clan in any region let alone Gedo for that matter is a grave injustice. There is a difference between renaming regions and implanting people but I wouldn't expect you to know that.

Ofcourse just like they mass migrated to the south, they can indeed mass migrate to the North but that is entirely up to them and no one and I mean no one can even try to accomplish anything of that sort without facing extinction. Daroods didn't come to the South by begging anyone, we came to the south on our own terms and not only decided our own fate but those of others simply because we could.

As for Caydid, he did not get distracted, he was chased from every corner and got holed up into Mogdishu where he turned on his own and creating the current conditions the people of Mogdishu live in. He is dead a man, Allah ha u naxariisto, and for that reason I will not insult any further than I have in the past but he is the worst thing that ever happened to Hawiyes because he introduced to the peaceful Southern hawiyes the worst culture there ever was, the cannibalistic Moryaan culture.

ps. Demure, you being from a tiny unknown clan should be thinking twice about calling for something like this waayo it is always the weakest that suffer the worst in times of wars.

[Demure]

Baasabuur,

There is nothing to discuss, as I said the legitimacy of Gedo is questionable and will be addressed when the time is right.

PS. Afweyne is a just nick name for our late dictator, one well earned if I may add.